Is 2 Seasons Enough ?

[FireChan]

Yea well, the Patriots didn't rest the starters until after the second half. Tom Brady started that game and played a full half while going 8 of 16 for only 80 yards and this game was played in New England!! Then this backup in Jimmy Garoppolo only went 10 of 17 for 90 yards in the second half.

 

The Bills defense held that super bowl winning Patriots team to only 144 passing yards all game and to only three field goals in scoring all game. That year the Patriots were the #4 scoring offense in the league. I get a kick out of Bills fans who cite this only win in New England against the Patriots since 2000 as a nothing game.

 

 

 

Please don't equate anything this new Bills owner does with his other sports team to the Buffalo Bills football team as I'm already depressed with the situation as it is. I keep hearing from Bills fans that the Buffalo Sabres have the best young roster in the league and how eventually they will start winning. When exactly?

 

Pegula took over that team in 2011 after he bought in from Tom Golisano who owned the team from 2003. Golisano actually inherited a real trainwreck of a team both on the ice and off and in four years were withing in one game of the Stanley cup. Under Golisano, the Sabres were in the playoffs more often than not.

If the Pats game doesn't count because the starters were out, why does the Dallas game count?

[thebandit27]

Yea well, the Patriots didn't rest the starters until after the second half. Tom Brady started that game and played a full half while going 8 of 16 for only 80 yards and this game was played in New England!! Then this backup in Jimmy Garoppolo only went 10 of 17 for 90 yards in the second half.

 

The Bills defense held that super bowl winning Patriots team to only 144 passing yards all game and to only three field goals in scoring all game. That year the Patriots were the #4 scoring offense in the league. I get a kick out of Bills fans who cite this only win in New England against the Patriots since 2000 as a nothing game.

 

 

 

Please don't equate anything this new Bills owner does with his other sports team to the Buffalo Bills football team as I'm already depressed with the situation as it is. I keep hearing from Bills fans that the Buffalo Sabres have the best young roster in the league and how eventually they will start winning. When exactly?

 

Pegula took over that team in 2011 after he bought in from Tom Golisano who owned the team from 2003. Golisano actually inherited a real trainwreck of a team both on the ice and off and in four years were withing in one game of the Stanley cup. Under Golisano, the Sabres were in the playoffs more often than not.

Ok, so a meaningless win against backups now counts as a meaningful win because of the stats the opposing QB put up in a meaningless half?

 

That's, well, silly to be frank.

 

As to the Sabres, when will they start winning? How about the second half of last season, when they went from all-time bad to a 0.500 team? Does that spell doom to you?

 

Because it'd be really odd if the win against New England's backups is somehow meaningful while the last 40 games of the Sabres' '15-16 schedule weren't in your eyes.

If the Pats game doesn't count because the starters were out, why does the Dallas game count?

Better yet: why does the Jacksonville game count?

 

Answer: it's convenient to the current position

[FireChan]

Ok, so a meaningless win against backups now counts as a meaningful win because of the stats the opposing QB put up in a meaningless half?

 

That's, well, silly to be frank.

 

As to the Sabres, when will they start winning? How about the second half of last season, when they went from all-time bad to a 0.500 team? Does that spell doom to you?

 

Because it'd be really odd if the win against New England's backups is somehow meaningful while the last 40 games of the Sabres' '15-16 schedule weren't in your eyes.

 

Better yet: why does the Jacksonville game count?

 

Answer: it's convenient to the current position

Why does the Houston game count?

[hondo in seattle]

I think most of the people who want to put Rex on a 2 year leash are the same people who didn't want Rex to be hired in the first place. They've already determined that Rex will never be a good NFL head coach. And they may be right.

 

I just think two year leashes are too short. I think NFL coaches need more time to get their staffs and systems right.

 

But I also want Buffalo to be the place that every coach wants to work. When you listen to coaches talk about their careers, their two biggest gripes are (1) hours away from family, and (2) the constant moving. No one can fix #1 but the Pegulas can do something about #2. They can develop the reputation of being good, patient owners who give their coaches a fair chance to succeed.

 

First impressions are lasting impressions, as they say, and I don't think firing Rex after two years gives the right first impression to the NFL coaching community. Unless, of course, the Bills are so abysmally bad this year that it's obvious to everyone Rex needs to go.

[Augie]

 

First impressions are lasting impressions, as they say, and I don't think firing Rex after two years gives the right first impression to the NFL coaching community. Unless, of course, the Bills are so abysmally bad this year that it's obvious to everyone Rex needs to go.

 

I'm not a Rex fan, but I like knee jerk reactions even less. Unless it turns into an absolute dumpster fire, I'm fine with a third year for the reasons you mention. (I hate to say that!)

[thebandit27]

I think most of the people who want to put Rex on a 2 year leash are the same people who didn't want Rex to be hired in the first place. They've already determined that Rex will never be a good NFL head coach. And they may be right.

 

I just think two year leashes are too short. I think NFL coaches need more time to get their staffs and systems right.

 

But I also want Buffalo to be the place that every coach wants to work. When you listen to coaches talk about their careers, their two biggest gripes are (1) hours away from family, and (2) the constant moving. No one can fix #1 but the Pegulas can do something about #2. They can develop the reputation of being good, patient owners who give their coaches a fair chance to succeed.

 

First impressions are lasting impressions, as they say, and I don't think firing Rex after two years gives the right first impression to the NFL coaching community. Unless, of course, the Bills are so abysmally bad this year that it's obvious to everyone Rex needs to go.

Actually hondo, I disliked the Rex hire from day 1, but I think it's patently absurd to give a HC one year to produce results.

 

IMO, unless there are obvious signs of collapse, he gets 3 years.

[BuffaloBill]

Hell, some 'experts' here were calling for him to be fired half way through last season.

 

This is the NFL...produce today or move on...

[Augie]

This is the NFL...produce today or move on...

Rex won today. Just ask him. It's mostly Sunday's during the season where he struggles. (Press conferences don't count.)

[vincec]

Once again, your examples aren't as strong as you seem to believe.

My thesis is that some good coaches need more than 2 years to build a winning program. And it is true.

Bill Belichick left Cleveland with a 36-44 record (5-11 in his last season). I bet Brown fans now wish they had been a little more patient. Didn't turn Cleveland around.

Marv Levy accomplished little in nearly 5 years with KC (he was fired after a 3-6 start to the '82 season). He later turned his career around.
Didn't turn KC around.

Pete Carroll was horrible with the Jets. And he delivered progressively worse W-L records during his 3 years with NE. (10-6, 9-7, 8-8).
Didn't turn the Jets around.

Tom Landry didn't achieve a winning record until his 7th year as a head coach. Took over an expansion team and progressively improved them up until they made the playoffs.

Chuck Noll has his first winning season in his 4th year. Took over a 2 win team and after winning 1 game season one, improved every year until they made the playoffs year 4.

Hand Stram, in his second go around as head coach, didn't achieve a winning season till his 4th season with KC. Hank Stram had a winning season his first year as head coach. 8-6. With an expansion team. And won the AFL championship his third season.

Bill Parcels, in his second go around as head coach, finished 6-10 in this third year with the Pats (definitely not on the upswing!). The next year, he took the team to the Super Bowl. The Pats finished 10-6 in his second season and made the playoffs for the first time in 8 years so he turned it around by year two. Plus, he was a two time Super Bowl winner by this point so he probably gets a little more cred than Rex.

Revisiting Parcells, he went 10-6 his first year with Dallas and then 6-10 his next year. He finished with winning records the next two years. Took over a 5-11 team. See above.

Mike McCarthy went 8-8 his first season, and 6-8 his third season. He later turned it around. Won 13 games in season two so he was definitely on the upswing after his second season.

Sean Payton when 10-6 his first season and 7-9 his second season. He later turned it around. He took over a 3-13 team and made the playoffs year one with one of the top offenses in the NFL. He turned it around way before year three.

All these great head coaches needed more than 2 years. I bet their fans are happy their owners didn't put these guys on 2 year leashes. And, no, I'm not claiming Rex is as a good a coach as these guys. But most of these guys didn't prove themselves as good coaches until after their second year. Sometimes, not until their second team.

It takes a while for a coach to implement their schemes with the players and really get execution and buy-in where they want. And it takes a couple years, typically, for a head coach to build his staff. Virtually no head coach has the staff he wants in his first year. Most of the coaches he respects are already employed so his first year he makes do with what's available.

The point your are trying to make is a myth. Name one coach who took over a team, led them to progressively worse records in his first two years than the season before he got there and then turned them around. Just one.

Edited June 28, 2016 by vincec

[4merper4mer]

Actually hondo, I disliked the Rex hire from day 1, but I think it's patently absurd to give a HC one year to produce results.

 

IMO, unless there are obvious signs of collapse, he gets 3 years.

 

i'm the opposite. I liked the Rex hire then came to realize that the disaster that was the NY Jets was actually his, not the scapegoated owner/GM/rest of them. His record for the past 6 years it horrible because his defense no longer works and he can't adjust.

 

While I agree that he should get a third year unless there are obvious signs of collapse, I have a hard time seeing Rex avoiding that given his last half decade plus of utter failure.

[Wing Man]

My belief is that, barring injuries, the defense will improve this year. The offense may stall a bit, but if the offensive line can hold together - no simple task, then it all comes down to the health of Tyrod Taylor who looks every bit the franchise quarterback. Healthy, we win games, not healthy, we're at the whim of EJ Manuel's arm, and well...

Manuel in the game endangers Whaley. We could go 2-14 with Manuel under center, but I wouldn't put the blame at Rex's feet for that. We've had ample opportunity to draft or obtain a credible backup, and no offense to Cardale Jones, but he's just not ready for the role. Manuel will be the end of Whaley and he needs to reach that conclusion sooner than later if he wants to keep his job.

 

Absent of an injury to Taylor is where Rex is vulnerable. We were 8-8 with a decimated team. We won't be as snake bit with injuries as last season because it just couldn't be worse than last season. A season with a healthy starting quarterback will be expected to exceed a .500 record given the expectations of the defense. If Tyrod can exploit the middle as he did the sideline last season, Rex need not worry.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Actually hondo, I disliked the Rex hire from day 1, but I think it's patently absurd to give a HC one year to produce results.

 

IMO, unless there are obvious signs of collapse, he gets 3 years.

 

It worked for the Browns.

[PO16FFS]

Should have been fired after the week 2 debacle. Should have been fired after wearing that stupid Clemson helmet. SHould have been fire for making Ikempali as captain against the Jets. Should have been fired after not knowing how to challenge. Should have been fired....etc......it never ends!

[Nihilarian]

Ok, so a meaningless win against backups now counts as a meaningful win because of the stats the opposing QB put up in a meaningless half?

 

That's, well, silly to be frank.

 

As to the Sabres, when will they start winning? How about the second half of last season, when they went from all-time bad to a 0.500 team? Does that spell doom to you?

 

Because it'd be really odd if the win against New England's backups is somehow meaningful while the last 40 games of the Sabres' '15-16 schedule weren't in your eyes.

 

 

When was the last time you saw Tom Brady throw for 8 of 16 for 80 yards and no TD's in the first half of any game? Pulling the Patriots players wasn't a forgone conclusion before the game as I'm fairly certain Belichick wanted to win the game and at the half thought it would be more prudent to avoid needless injuries. The Bills actually had a ferocious pass rush that year and teams just didn't want to face that Buffalo front four!

 

It wasn't a meaningless win to the Buffalo Bills players or their fans and like I said the Patriots starters played the first half and were getting nowhere against that #4 Bills defense. About the only time, I ever see Bills fans bemoan the fact that the 2014 Buffalo Bills finally had a winning season in the last 10 years and had beaten the Patriots in New England are the fans who want to belittle those accomplishments to further their arguments.

 

 

Oh, so because the Sabres played better in the second half of the season despite finishing 7th out of 8. That they have now turned the corner and will start having playoff seasons again? Good to know.

 

 

i'm the opposite. I liked the Rex hire then came to realize that the disaster that was the NY Jets was actually his, not the scapegoated owner/GM/rest of them. His record for the past 5 years it horrible because his defense no longer works and he can't adjust.

 

While I agree that he should get a third year unless there are obvious signs of collapse, I have a hard time seeing Rex avoiding that given his last half decade plus of utter failure.

I was sceptical at first due to the way the Bills beat the Jets 2x so profoundly in 2014 and Ryan's Jets finished 4-12. However, I bought into the hype of the head coach and players stating that they could have the number one defense in the league and could be special, as in 85 bears special. That this team was going to the playoffs in 2015!

 

About halfway through the 2015 season, I came away thinking that about the only thing Rex Ryan is good at working... is his mouth. After that week two debacle against the Patriots in which Tom Brady set a Buffalo Bills single-game passing record of yards allowed (466) I realized this team isn't going to be special this year. Maybe short bus special. But not anywhere near 85 Bears special.

 

All the complaining about Ryan's defensive I had read about from the teams best defensive player since training camp became a real issue. Then the teams best pass rusher joined him in complaining about how he also was being utilized in Ryan's scheme. These weren't scrubs doing the complaining either as both these men were coming off pro bowl seasons and are considered some of the best players in the entire NFL.

 

Now I've come to the conclusion that this new hire is nothing more than a con man whose better days at being an NFL head coach ended 5 seasons ago. It wasn't just the defensive disaster in which Ryan did exactly what he said he wouldn't do in the square peg, round hole thing with the defense. Took a championship caliber defense and castrated it because the players didn't fit his scheme. That he was going to run his scheme his way no matter what.

 

If the problem with Rex Ryan was just the defense, then replacing the current players with players that fit his scheme should eventually create a somewhat decent defense in yardage. However, his defenses the last five years haven't been that good in points allowed and have been around 20th in the league in points allowed every year. This tells me that 4merper4mer has it right, that Ryan's defensive scheme no longer works in today's NFL. Also, there is a multitude of other problems that I and others have previously listed and by some strange irony, Rex's brother Rob was fired in New Orleans for some of those same issues.

[thebandit27]

When was the last time you saw Tom Brady throw for 8 of 16 for 80 yards and no TD's in the first half of any game? Pulling the Patriots players wasn't a forgone conclusion before the game as I'm fairly certain Belichick wanted to win the game and at the half thought it would be more prudent to avoid needless injuries. The Bills actually had a ferocious pass rush that year and teams just didn't want to face that Buffalo front four!

 

It wasn't a meaningless win to the Buffalo Bills players or their fans and like I said the Patriots starters played the first half and were getting nowhere against that #4 Bills defense. About the only time, I ever see Bills fans bemoan the fact that the 2014 Buffalo Bills finally had a winning season in the last 10 years and had beaten the Patriots in New England are the fans who want to belittle those accomplishments to further their arguments.

 

 

Oh, so because the Sabres played better in the second half of the season despite finishing 7th out of 8. That they have now turned the corner and will start having playoff seasons again? Good to know.

So I'm correct in reading that the Bills' week 17 win against NE in a meaningless game matters because of Tom Brady's 1st half stats?

 

Is it your opinion that the same team that perennially lights up Buffalo's D in the 2nd half (as they did in the first meeting that season after being held in check in the first half) would have been unable to do so had the starters stayed in the game? I see no reason to suspect that given how well they performed against Seattle's defense (a better unit) in the Super Bowl, though if love to hear your justification.

 

What we basically have here is a situation where you need to reach to make that meaningless win matter, otherwise your argument about the record getting worse falls flat (spoiler alert: it does anyway for a team that went 4-2 in the division and likely would've been 9-7 had they not played without 5 offensive starters against Jacksonville).

 

Regarding the Sabres: yes, generally when a team improves from historically bad to 0.500 in less than one season's time, adds a cup-winning coach, and has one of (if not THE) highest under-25 talent bases in the league, they're looking at competing for a playoff spot.

 

If you don't agree on the talent base, then let's hear why (I won't hold my breath).

[papazoid]

7-9 is a step back, he's gone.

 

8-8 is 50/50

 

9-7 or better he stays.

[Nanker]

Actually hondo, I disliked the Rex hire from day 1, but I think it's patently absurd to give a HC one year to produce results.

 

IMO, unless there are obvious signs of collapse, he gets 3 years.

+1

 

This is the NFL...produce today or move on...

Well, "the best coach The Bills have had in the last decade" went 6 -10 in his first year at the helm. So perhaps there's room for Rex & Co. to do better than 9-7 this year.

[FireChan]

+1

 

Well, "the best coach The Bills have had in the last decade" went 6 -10 in his first year at the helm. So perhaps there's room for Rex & Co. to do better than 9-7 this year.

Going 6-10 with EJ at the helm is a minor miracle. I'd rather have Thad Lewis for a season.

[GunnerBill]

Going 6-10 with EJ at the helm is a minor miracle. I'd rather have Thad Lewis for a season.

 

I'd rather have EJ than Thad.... (and EJ's rookie year was not that bad) but when you look at the Quarterbacking we had that year 6-10 was the most one could have expected.

[3rdand12]

I think most of the people who want to put Rex on a 2 year leash are the same people who didn't want Rex to be hired in the first place. They've already determined that Rex will never be a good NFL head coach. And they may be right.

 

I just think two year leashes are too short. I think NFL coaches need more time to get their staffs and systems right.

 

But I also want Buffalo to be the place that every coach wants to work. When you listen to coaches talk about their careers, their two biggest gripes are (1) hours away from family, and (2) the constant moving. No one can fix #1 but the Pegulas can do something about #2. They can develop the reputation of being good, patient owners who give their coaches a fair chance to succeed.

 

First impressions are lasting impressions, as they say, and I don't think firing Rex after two years gives the right first impression to the NFL coaching community. Unless, of course, the Bills are so abysmally bad this year that it's obvious to everyone Rex needs to go.

It may not mean much.

But has any one noticed ( in a positive light ) How much Rex likes being the Coach for Buffalo?

BTW please refrain from commenting to this as i know all the snarky comments coming. He does seem to be thrilled all the time though.

 

I think he is the perfect fit.

 

Is he the Best? naw he isn't.

 

But he is ours.

Why cant fans just embrace him till the Pegulas don't.

Fear of commitment perhaps ?

Edited June 29, 2016 by 3rdand12