Ed Reed Saw Confusion and Lack of Effort in 2015 Film

[Mr. WEO]

There has been some info (and I dont know the validity) that Rob Ryan was told to coach a D that he flat told them was not his defense.

 

He has had success in the past in certain positional defensive positions.

 

 

That info came from Rob Ryan.

 

I did not communicate with them to ask; Rob Ryan was told specifically what scheme to use by head coach and he obliged. When the head coach is making the call either on offense or defense they get the credit/blame. And Ron Ryan did have some good defenses in New Orleans.

 

 

Ron Ryan may have had good defenses in NO, but Rob Ryan didn't.

 

Both Ryans are happy to let others take the blame for their bad coaching. It's their MO..

[stevewin]

offseason work is limited due to the stupid CBA. once the season starts, no more time for teaching the basics and changing players approach... its all recovery and prep for the next opponent... teams with new coaching staffs are screwed bc not much time exists to get new schemes put it. anyone familiar with this knows last year was going to be tough and it would take another off season to get everyone on the same page... heck , TT was allowed to use about 1/3 of the playbook. they just don't get nearly the practice time they once got . and all you haters want Rex to be fired and start this new coach/schemes merry go round all over again? crazy talk.

I'm not a hater - it just seems incredible to me that coaching seemed to fail so badly last year on basic things like getting guys to give full effort and have communication such that practices were not so silent "you could hear a pin drop". This has nothing to do with schemes or amount of prep in OTAs - it's among the most fundamental things a coach from little league on up is responsible for.

[zonabb]

I'm not a hater - it just seems incredible to me that coaching seemed to fail so badly last year on basic things like getting guys to give full effort and have communication such that practices were not so silent "you could hear a pin drop". This has nothing to do with schemes or amount of prep in OTAs - it's among the most fundamental things a coach from little league on up is responsible for.

Ever work in an office where a guy got his cheese moved and turned into a malcontent? Because I have and no amount of upper mgmt could get people over changes they didn't like. The problem with this idea that is assumes that all employees in all jobs always act professionally and listen to mgmt. Not all players are great employees and give 100%.

[4merper4mer]

 

@jmccoyphoto

I got a chance to talk to Bills Ed Reed today. What a smart man! The Bills our lucky to have him.

 

 

 

No offense to Reed but I'm sure a lot of people seem smart to jmccoy.

[xsoldier54]

Are we sure it's gone? Because we never saw this uncooperative leadership when we were 10th in defense and 4th in 2014. Suddenly, the defense got uncooperative when we got a new defensive coach.

 

If this defense isn't good next year, who are we going to blame since Mario? How about not complicating the defense so much so football players can just play and not think? "Mario, Kyle, Jerry, Marcell. Go destroy the oline and make plays in the backfield."

This is the NFL not sandlot. All defenses require some thought. The problem last year was mostly Mario not buying in and not trying. There probably were more culprits, but he stood out because his lack of effort was so obvious.

[4merper4mer]

The problem last year was mostly Mario not buying in and not trying.

 

 

He has also not tried to stop world hunger, global warming or high taxes. Are those his fault too?

[Fadingpain]

If you sound convincing, people will believe you.

 

Rex's strategy is genius. He said: "Being ranked 4th last year was a disappointment with this talent; we're going to be No. 1 in the league this year, no doubt." Or words to that effect.

 

That all sounds a lot better than "I'm going to take a great defense and make it below average. Confusion, lack of effort, and league leading, undisciplined, stupid penalties will be the hallmarks of my stamp on this team!"

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by Fadingpain

[Nihilarian]

Mario had his hand but if plays were coming in too late, it's potentially hard to process and communicate

 

Likewise, the same issues were said about robs coaching here.

We all saw it, heard about it, read about it. Even the Bills players themselves were saying that even the slowest opponents were hurrying to the line because they saw the Bills constantly getting the play calls late and player substitutions in late. THAT's BAD COACHING!!

 

"When Reed went and watched film of the 2015 Bills, the lack of communication astounded him.:"

 

Excuse me, but what does Mario Williams have to do with the lack of communication? He was just one gear in the machinery of an 11 plus man defense that wasn't working anywhere near as effectively as it did the previous two years. Bills fans really need to stop with the Mario hate because he wasn't as effective in Ryan's two gap scheme...because nobody else's was either! All the players in the front seven saw their play stats take a huge hit from the previous two seasons.

 

It wasn't just the lack of communication between players!

It wasn't just some of the players not giving 100%

It wasn't just the astounding amout of penalties the majority of the games... The Bills defense gave the NY Giants 7 first downs on offense by penalties. holy effing crap, 17 penalties for 135 yards in that one game alone! 17!

It wasn't just the late player substitutions or the late play calls coming in.

It wasn't just the lack of QB pressures, sacks from running a scheme that didn't suit the best front four in the NFL. last in the NFL in QB pressures and 31st in sacks!

It wasn't just asking the linebackers (who weren't very good) to make the plays over the pro bowl D-linemen.

 

It was the confluence of all this crap that took a #4 (#4 points allowed, #4 yards allowed, #1 in sacks and QB pressures) overall defense in the NFL to middling in points allowed (15th), in the top 11 worst teams in yards against (19th) and dead Last in QB pressures, 31st in sacks. Those numbers are also astounding when you consider that it was mostly the exact same players and the coaches changed.

 

The one thing that escapes most Bills fans is that the 3-4 two gap scheme that Rex Ryan ran last year in Buffalo and his brother Rob ran in New Orleans is a dinosaur! Teams have caught up on how to defeat that defense and it showed last year. Besides, the Bills still don't have the right personnel to run that scheme. Ed Reed is a great NFL player but isn't he a DB's coach on a team that already had excellent play from the secondary?

 

I'm not as convinced as a lot of Bills fans that this year's defense will be anywhere near as good as #4 in the NFL like it was under Schwartz. The players the Bills drafted with those first two picks shows that the team still wants to run that two gaps scheme. What's sad about this whole thing is that all Ryan needed to do was run the 3-4 one-gap scheme like Wade Phillips did in Denver and while Buffalo doesn't have a Vonn Miller that defense would have raised hell last year. Plus, Ryan could easily change up what he was doing and start running mostly that one-gap this year.

 

Time will tell on this one and once the season starts we will see. As it stands, to me, it looks like the Bills hired a boisterous 4-12 head coach determined to do things his way.

[Chilly]

 

It is pretty obvious that the coaches dismissed while they may be good position coaches were poor in communicating what needed to be done by defense players in scheme. This is why I think Rob Ryan and Ed Reed were brought in.

 

This I think is on Rex even though I do not think others are; his teams often seem to have discipline issues and I think partly it is because he is a "Players' coach". It is hard to be best friend and dad with a paddle.

 

What's the supporting data behind this?

 

Per https://www.reddit.com/r/buffalobills/comments/3nz1h8/rex_ryans_jets_penalties_per_game_20092014/

 

Rex Ryan coached teams:

2009 - 5.68 PPG - 20th in the NFL

2010 - 6.05 PPG - 15th in the NFL

2011 - 6.38 PPG - 15th in the NFL

2012 - 5.19 PPG - 29th in the NFL

2013 - 6.75 PPG - 10th in the NFL

2014 - 6.84 PPG - 16th in the NFL

 

Personal Fouls:

 

2009 - 2 (league avg 1.81)

2010 - 3 (league avg 1.81)

2011 - 1 (league avg 2.47)

2012 - 3 (league avg 2.59)

2013 - 3 (league avg 2.47)

2014 - 1 (league avg 2.03)

For comparison, here's the penalty rankings (ordered by least penalties as #1) of the super bowl winners in that time:

2009 - New Orleans (#8)

2010 - Green Bay (#3)

2011 - NYG (#11)

2012 - Baltimore (#27)

2013 - Seattle (#32)

2014 - New England (#25)

2015 - Denver (#16)

And here's Buffalo's rankings during that time period:

2009 - #25

2010 - #7

2011 - #8

2012 - #12

2013 - #25

2014 - #30

2015 - #32

In my opinion, what this data shows is:

• In his career, before last year, Rex has been about average in penalties called against his teams.
• Penalties doesn't seem to have much of an impact on who wins the Super Bowl.
• Buffalo finished near the bottom of the league in the two years before Rex joined under Marrone, indicating this isn't a Rex Ryan created issue.

I personally don't understand how, when looking at all the data, we can say it's Rex's teams that are undisciplined. His teams are about average. It also seems to me it's the current Bills players who commit a lot of penalties and Rex inherited a "problem" (if you believe high penalty counts are an issue - I'm not convinced it has a major impact overall - it certainly in specific situations but I believe the data shows other factors are way more important).

I'm not as convinced as a lot of Bills fans that this year's defense will be anywhere near as good as #4 in the NFL like it was under Schwartz. The players the Bills drafted with those first two picks shows that the team still wants to run that two gaps scheme. What's sad about this whole thing is that all Ryan needed to do was run the 3-4 one-gap scheme like Wade Phillips did in Denver and while Buffalo doesn't have a Vonn Miller that defense would have raised hell last year. Plus, Ryan could easily change up what he was doing and start running mostly that one-gap this year.

 

Rex Ryan's defensive rankings in yards per game:

 

2005 - 5

2006 - 1

2007 - 6

2008 - 2

2009 - 1

2010 - 3

2011 - 5

2012 - 8

2013 - 11

2014 - 6

2015 - 19

 

What changed between the 2014 season and the 2015 season that all of a sudden caused a defensive scheme whose lowest finish ever, #11, to become a dinosaur?

Edited June 17, 2016 by Chilly

[Dopey]

Are we sure it's gone? Because we never saw this uncooperative leadership when we were 10th in defense and 4th in 2014. Suddenly, the defense got uncooperative when we got a new defensive coach.

 

If this defense isn't good next year, who are we going to blame since Mario? How about not complicating the defense so much so football players can just play and not think? "Mario, Kyle, Jerry, Marcell. Go destroy the oline and make plays in the backfield."

Too late, we got Rex and that's not his style.

We did too

+1

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

No offense to Reed but I'm sure a lot of people seem smart to jmccoy.

the Buffalo News photographer? How do you know how smart he is Edited June 17, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[K-9]

... What changed between the 2014 season and the 2015 season that all of a sudden caused a defensive scheme whose lowest finish ever, #11, to become a dinosaur?

A few things, among others:

 

1.) Rex didn't fully commit to his defensive philosophy

 

2.) Players openly rebelled to the parts he did commit to

 

3.) Rex was too weak to demand players commit and bench them if they didn't

 

4.) Waiting until the bye was too late to make some changes was too late

 

5.) Injuries to key personnel

 

Just a few things off the top of my head.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Chilly]

A few things, among others:

 

1.) Rex didn't fully commit to his defensive philosophy

 

2.) Players openly rebelled to the parts he did commit to

 

3.) Rex was too weak to demand players commit and bench them if they didn't

 

4.) Waiting until the bye was too late to make some changes was too late

 

5.) Injuries to key personnel

 

Just a few things off the top of my head.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I fail to see how these are related to his scheme being supposedly outdated. These are all issues with the implementation, not the scheme itself.

[K-9]

I fail to see how these are related to his scheme being supposedly outdated. These are all issues with the implementation, not the scheme itself.

I don't think his scheme is outdated, which is why I cited issues related to implementation.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Mike in Horseheads]

 

 

He has also not tried to stop world hunger, global warming or high taxes. Are those his fault too?

Well Yah!

[Nihilarian]

A few things, among others:

 

1.) Rex didn't fully commit to his defensive philosophy

 

2.) Players openly rebelled to the parts he did commit to

 

3.) Rex was too weak to demand players commit and bench them if they didn't

 

4.) Waiting until the bye was too late to make some changes was too late

 

5.) Injuries to key personnel

 

Just a few things off the top of my head.

 

GO BILLS!!!

This! Plus other reasons. That scheme didn't work for Rob Ryan in New Orleans and it certainly didn't work in Buffalo last year.

 

Aside from the things already mentioned the difference that I can see is that Rex actually called a lot of Blitzes when he was the Jets HC and to the tune of almost 55% of the QB dropbacks in 2009 to substantially less the last few years. In 2013-2014 it was more around 30-35% and last year in Buffalo he blitzed less than 10% some games.

 

Aside from the lack of blitzing it was sorta clear to me that Rex Ryan only seemed to have his team well prepared and a proper game plan set up for certain games. Division games mostly as the Bills swept the Jets and Dolphins. More importantly, The 2015 Buffalo Bills played their best against the Jets with Rex having revenge to beat the team that fired him in mind. Then the Bills managed to beat the bad QB's and lose to anyone average or better.

 

 

Rex might have been 6th in yards allowed in 2014 with the NY Jets but his team went 4-12 and his defense was 24th in points allowed! Guess what team was #4 in total defense in 2015? Yea, the NY Jets!

[3rdand12]

This! Plus other reasons. That scheme didn't work for Rob Ryan in New Orleans and it certainly didn't work in Buffalo last year.

 

Aside from the things already mentioned the difference that I can see is that Rex actually called a lot of Blitzes when he was the Jets HC and to the tune of almost 55% of the QB dropbacks in 2009 to substantially less the last few years. In 2013-2014 it was more around 30-35% and last year in Buffalo he blitzed less than 10% some games.

 

Aside from the lack of blitzing it was sorta clear to me that Rex Ryan only seemed to have his team well prepared and a proper game plan set up for certain games. Division games mostly as the Bills swept the Jets and Dolphins. More importantly, The 2015 Buffalo Bills played their best against the Jets with Rex having revenge to beat the team that fired him in mind. Then the Bills managed to beat the bad QB's and lose to anyone average or better.

 

 

Rex might have been 6th in yards allowed in 2014 with the NY Jets but his team went 4-12 and his defense was 24th in points allowed! Guess what team was #4 in total defense in 2015? Yea, the NY Jets!

Perhaps some teams had his number ?

[4merper4mer]

the Buffalo News photographer? How do you know how smart he is

There "our" a few hints.

[hondo in seattle]

 

What's the supporting data behind this?

 

Per https://www.reddit.com/r/buffalobills/comments/3nz1h8/rex_ryans_jets_penalties_per_game_20092014/

 

Rex Ryan coached teams:

2009 - 5.68 PPG - 20th in the NFL

2010 - 6.05 PPG - 15th in the NFL

2011 - 6.38 PPG - 15th in the NFL

2012 - 5.19 PPG - 29th in the NFL

2013 - 6.75 PPG - 10th in the NFL

2014 - 6.84 PPG - 16th in the NFL

 

Personal Fouls:

 

2009 - 2 (league avg 1.81)

2010 - 3 (league avg 1.81)

2011 - 1 (league avg 2.47)

2012 - 3 (league avg 2.59)

2013 - 3 (league avg 2.47)

2014 - 1 (league avg 2.03)

For comparison, here's the penalty rankings (ordered by least penalties as #1) of the super bowl winners in that time:

2009 - New Orleans (#8)

2010 - Green Bay (#3)

2011 - NYG (#11)

2012 - Baltimore (#27)

2013 - Seattle (#32)

2014 - New England (#25)

2015 - Denver (#16)

And here's Buffalo's rankings during that time period:

2009 - #25

2010 - #7

2011 - #8

2012 - #12

2013 - #25

2014 - #30

2015 - #32

In my opinion, what this data shows is:

• In his career, before last year, Rex has been about average in penalties called against his teams.
• Penalties doesn't seem to have much of an impact on who wins the Super Bowl.
• Buffalo finished near the bottom of the league in the two years before Rex joined under Marrone, indicating this isn't a Rex Ryan created issue.

I personally don't understand how, when looking at all the data, we can say it's Rex's teams that are undisciplined. His teams are about average. It also seems to me it's the current Bills players who commit a lot of penalties and Rex inherited a "problem" (if you believe high penalty counts are an issue - I'm not convinced it has a major impact overall - it certainly in specific situations but I believe the data shows other factors are way more important).

 

Rex Ryan's defensive rankings in yards per game:

 

2005 - 5

2006 - 1

2007 - 6

2008 - 2

2009 - 1

2010 - 3

2011 - 5

2012 - 8

2013 - 11

2014 - 6

2015 - 19

 

What changed between the 2014 season and the 2015 season that all of a sudden caused a defensive scheme whose lowest finish ever, #11, to become a dinosaur?

 

Chilly, great post!

 

I love when posters support their arguments with actual facts!

[Nihilarian]

 

Chilly, great post!

 

I love when posters support their arguments with actual facts!

Here are some more facts.

 

Against the NY Giants In having your team penalized 17 times for 135 yards and thus giving the opponent 7 first downs on offense in one game is beyond ridiculous. "Two of those penalties negated touchdowns and the Bills had four 15 yard penalties!

 

Giants HC Tom Coughlin told his team before the game ..."Tom Coughlin told his players before Sunday's game that the Bills would beat themselves with penalties. http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/10/tom_coughlin_reportedly_told_giants_players_buffalo_bills_would_beat_themselves.html

 

They sure did beat themselves. It wasn't just the players that were undisciplined as it was the coaches as well. Rex was anti-Marv Levy last season as Marv would preach "don't be dumb, don't be dirty".

 

The fact that Doug Marrone also didn't get a handle on the penalties doesn't excuse Rex Ryan from having that problem. The Buffalo Bills are not an elite team by any standard and any mistake they make is more difficult to overcome than it is for the elite teams.