Sabres & NHL 2016-17 - Victor Antipin Signs One Year Deal

[26CornerBlitz]

@TSNBobMcKenzie

NHL CSB released its final rankings today. Here are North American skaters: http://www.tsn.ca/2017-nhl-cs-final-draft-ranking-na-skaters-1.721439

Euro skaters: http://www.tsn.ca/2017-nhl-cs-final-draft-ranking-eur-skaters-1.721441

 

[Alaska Darin]

can someone explain the bonuses to me? I had no idea they were allowed on this scale.

 

Thought the ELC was pretty much defined by CBA...can teams give these kinds of bonuses? Did the Rangers give Jimmy V. something similar that tilted the deck in their favor?

The base contracts are the same but there are bonuses available based on performance that can greatly enhance the value of the deal. This was one of Jack's.

[26CornerBlitz]

@TBNSports

Nolan Patrick tabbed as top NHL draft prospect; #Sabres have the sixth-best odds at the top pick. @buffnewsvogl: http://bit.ly/2ovK50g

[4merper4mer]

The base contracts are the same but there are bonuses available based on performance that can greatly enhance the value of the deal. This was one of Jack's.

 

 

For Eichel they should have given him easy bonuses. For example, staying clean shaven could have been one. That thing above his lip is ridiculous and shaving it could have gotten him $2M instead of him missing out by a tiny fraction and losing all of it.

[BillsFan4]

For Eichel they should have given him easy bonuses. For example, staying clean shaven could have been one. That thing above his lip is ridiculous and shaving it could have gotten him $2M instead of him missing out by a tiny fraction and losing all of it.

 

That's not how it works. There are clearly defined entry level contracts/bonuses. Eichel got the max ELC contract with the max bonus structure.

[4merper4mer]

That's not how it works. There are clearly defined entry level contracts/bonuses. Eichel got the max ELC contract with the max bonus structure.

Tough break for the kid.

[JohnC]

 

Again I have to point out to you who you are having this conversation with. It's really not worth the effort. I have enjoyed much of the interaction in this thread over the course of the season, but a handful of people are doing their best to completely ruin it with their hit and run whining. I'm probably bailing at this point, but hopefully the playoffs drag me back in.

As a consequence from such a disappointing season it will be intriguing to observe how Murray attacks this offseason with the draft, trades, expansion maneuvers etc. The GM didn't have a balanced roster. (Captain Obvious!) The blue line deficiencies spilled over and created a hole that couldn't be compensated for. So how that unit is rebuild will be interesting to follow. I'm hoping that players such as Kane and Reinhart don't get dealt to add a defenseman. Does anyone know much about the Russian from the KHL who supposedly is going to be added to the roster? Is that a done deal? It would be interesting to see what happens with Kulikov? I consider him to be a third pairing defenseman.

[bbb]

What was the bonus everybody is talking about here?

[May Day 10]

What was the bonus everybody is talking about here?

 

Eichel was due a $2 million bonus if he finished top 10 in points per game.

 

He was right there until late in the Edmonton game, the last game, when McDavid set up Draisaitl for a goal, which moved Draisaitl .01 points per game better, knocking Eichel to 11th

[bbb]

 

Eichel was due a $2 million bonus if he finished top 10 in points per game.

 

He was right there until late in the Edmonton game, the last game, when McDavid set up Draisaitl for a goal, which moved Draisaitl .01 points per game better, knocking Eichel to 11th

 

Wow. Any chance that Pegula pays him anyway?

 

I remember the last Bills game of the year about 15 years ago, the Cincy QB had some big bonus having to do with offensive snaps. It was the only fun being at the game - figuring out if he would get it. What needed to happen, etc..............He didn't get it, but then he got the bonus anyway.

[K-9]

 

Eichel was due a $2 million bonus if he finished top 10 in points per game.

 

He was right there until late in the Edmonton game, the last game, when McDavid set up Draisaitl for a goal, which moved Draisaitl .01 points per game better, knocking Eichel to 11th

Tough way to lose it, but he has only himself to blame while coasting to a 2 points in 6 games finish.

 

When Eichel makes up his mind to play, he is a force as we've seen. But he seems to lack a certain kind of focus at times and that cost him as we saw.

[shrader]

As a consequence from such a disappointing season it will be intriguing to observe how Murray attacks this offseason with the draft, trades, expansion maneuvers etc. The GM didn't have a balanced roster. (Captain Obvious!) The blue line deficiencies spilled over and created a hole that couldn't be compensated for. So how that unit is rebuild will be interesting to follow. I'm hoping that players such as Kane and Reinhart don't get dealt to add a defenseman. Does anyone know much about the Russian from the KHL who supposedly is going to be added to the roster? Is that a done deal? It would be interesting to see what happens with Kulikov? I consider him to be a third pairing defenseman.

 

I haven't paid too close attention, but I believe that Antipin's KHL team is still alive in the playoffs. They can't do anything until their season is over. It would be odd if they didn't sign him given how it was originally reported as a done deal.

[BillsFan4]

It's very understanding why a player such as Eichel isn't enamored with the system. All his hockey life he was the best player on the ice who roamed and played his own individual game. That worked in the prior pro setting but it doesn't work out well in the NHL. Also, before going to the pros he always played a free styled game that was outside of the unit. That doesn't work well in the NHL.

 

The HC is requiring the young star to play a more disciplined and structured game on offense and defense. The coach is doing the right thing in coaching Eichel hard to stay within the boundaries of the structure. So it is understandable why the player would be resistant to such a dramatic change being forced on him.

 

Bylsma is not a fool. He has coached stars such as Crosby when he worked in Pittsburgh and earned a cup. He is not going to restrict such a grand talent by repressing his game but he is not going to allow his game to be so undisciplined that it will hurt his hockey growth and hurt the team.

 

Let me use Kane as an example that the coach knows what he is doing when handling individual players. No one can deny that Kane's style of lone ranger play was not in the long run going to work. It has taken time but by the last third part of the season Kane was playing a much more integrated and disciplined style of game. That's an example of good coaching.

 

I am sure that is maybe some of it, but Eichel did play in a structured system in college under David Quinn and has played for a number of well respected coaches, with very good players too (like Auston Matthews and others). He's played in the US National team development program for 2 years, played IIHF worlds, World Juniors, Youth Olympics, USHL, etc etc. I don't think he was allowed to just free wheel and do his own thing all the time in those programs, with other great players on the ice with him.

 

If it were just Eichel that (supposedly) hated Bylsma's system, I would maybe agree. But even Sam Reinhart supposedly hates it and he plays a more structured game. I've read that it's like half the team that hate his system.

 

He seems to ask his players to play a very rigid/strict, very boring, risk-free defense first type system that is supposedly overly complicated and strict and you can see how it kills creativity and scoring chances. It's not the type of system we should be running with all the talented forwards we have IMO.

 

We should be an offensive oriented, puck possession team, that takes advantage of our player's skill sets IMO, not a dump and chase grind it out, puck retrieval type team (Kane is one of the few forwards we have that really fits this IMO, which is why he looks good playing in this system).

 

IMO What makes the Sabres so awful at possession is their lack of puck support. Watch how many times a defender will go into the zone, retrieve the puck behind the net and then try to make a stretch pass to a forward beyond the blue line in any given game. Those passes rarely connect, and even if they do they're generally not clean, which results in either a turnover or an icing, both of which give up possession. The Sabres lack personnel to make those kinds of transitions work. They need to move up the ice as a team, not with defenders trying to hit forwards halfway down the ice with hail mary bombs.

IMO The defenseman should be more active in joining the rush. We have some mobile defenders. The forwards should also come back to help the defense on transition more.

Our zone entries also kill momentum so often. He asks players to wait at the blue line while a guy skates it through the neutral zone and then carries or dumps it in.

The Sabres have the players (especially at center) to play a more supportive, puck possession type game that IMO would take much better advantage of their skill sets. There were times during the season that they played more this style of hockey, and I thought they looked very good during those stretches.

 

There were a whole lot of similar complaints about Bylsma's system during his time in Pittsburgh. He came in more than half way through the season and used Michel Theirren's system and won a Cup. The Penguins were already a good team. They had been to the Finals the year before Bylsma took over, and they had some major key injuries during Therrien's last year there. They got a number of good players back from injury just as Bylsma took over. The players had supposedly worn thin on Therrien's coaching style (as often happens with yelling and screaming type coaches), and Bylsma being a new style "player's coach" was a breath of fresh air. He won that Cup playing Therrien's system though.

 

Then Bylsma changed to his system and never won another Cup.

 

His system also evolved in his time in Pitts. At first he played a very up tempo, high scoring, exciting system that guys loved playing in (see 2011 Penguins) and had fun. Then he started to go to a more risk-averse, strict, defense first type system (see his last 2-3 yrs with the Pens) that killed much player creativity and you started hearing about how the Penguins hated playing in his system. There were also a lot of rumors he lost the locker room in Pittsburgh. Mario Lemieux even met with Crosby in the visitor's locker room at Madison Square Garden, during that game 6 in the playoffs because ownership was so worried about how Bylsma had lost the team.

 

 

 

I don't mean to sound like I am totally against Bylsma, because I am not. But I have a lot of issues with the system he plays. I just don't think it takes advantage of the type of team Buffalo has. But he is a proven NHL coach and I would like to see what he can do with a better defense and not so many key injuries. He has to get more player buy-in IMO too. When half the team doesn't seem to be buying in to the system, it is doomed to fail no matter what system it is. And you heard this all season long from reporters who watched the Sabres practice. The coaches would have the players playing a very specific style in practice and then when the game started, half the team would abandon that style of play and do their own thing. That's where we need better leadership IMO, or they need to get our current leaders to buy in more.

 

Sorry this is so long, I actually shortened it up quite a bit... lol. I could go on for days about this stuff. lol

Wow. Any chance that Pegula pays him anyway?

 

I remember the last Bills game of the year about 15 years ago, the Cincy QB had some big bonus having to do with offensive snaps. It was the only fun being at the game - figuring out if he would get it. What needed to happen, etc..............He didn't get it, but then he got the bonus anyway.

That would be cap circumvention. I'm sure he would if he could.

 

Not to sound like a jerk, but In a way, it's good for the Sabres that Eichel missed his bonus. If he hit it, the Sabres would have been over the cap for this year, and would have had cap penalties next season.

[bbb]

Thanks for the info.

[DC Tom]

 

Wow. Any chance that Pegula pays him anyway?

 

I remember the last Bills game of the year about 15 years ago, the Cincy QB had some big bonus having to do with offensive snaps. It was the only fun being at the game - figuring out if he would get it. What needed to happen, etc..............He didn't get it, but then he got the bonus anyway.

 

Even if they wanted to, and even if they could change the terms of the contract to allow it, arbitrarily changing his contract for a performance bonus he didn't earn (even though yes, he missed it by a percent of a percent) is not really a precedent you want to set.

[JohnC]

I am sure that is maybe some of it, but Eichel did play in a structured system in college under David Quinn and has played for a number of well respected coaches, with very good players too (like Auston Matthews and others). He's played in the US National team development program for 2 years, played IIHF worlds, World Juniors, Youth Olympics, USHL, etc etc. I don't think he was allowed to just free wheel and do his own thing all the time in those programs, with other great players on the ice with him.

 

If it were just Eichel that (supposedly) hated Bylsma's system, I would maybe agree. But even Sam Reinhart supposedly hates it and he plays a more structured game. I've read that it's like half the team that hate his system.

 

He seems to ask his players to play a very rigid/strict, very boring, risk-free defense first type system that is supposedly overly complicated and strict and you can see how it kills creativity and scoring chances. It's not the type of system we should be running with all the talented forwards we have IMO.

 

We should be an offensive oriented, puck possession team, that takes advantage of our player's skill sets IMO, not a dump and chase grind it out, puck retrieval type team (Kane is one of the few forwards we have that really fits this IMO, which is why he looks good playing in this system).

 

IMO What makes the Sabres so awful at possession is their lack of puck support. Watch how many times a defender will go into the zone, retrieve the puck behind the net and then try to make a stretch pass to a forward beyond the blue line in any given game. Those passes rarely connect, and even if they do they're generally not clean, which results in either a turnover or an icing, both of which give up possession. The Sabres lack personnel to make those kinds of transitions work. They need to move up the ice as a team, not with defenders trying to hit forwards halfway down the ice with hail mary bombs.

IMO The defenseman should be more active in joining the rush. We have some mobile defenders. The forwards should also come back to help the defense on transition more.

Our zone entries also kill momentum so often. He asks players to wait at the blue line while a guy skates it through the neutral zone and then carries or dumps it in.

The Sabres have the players (especially at center) to play a more supportive, puck possession type game that IMO would take much better advantage of their skill sets. There were times during the season that they played more this style of hockey, and I thought they looked very good during those stretches.

 

There were a whole lot of similar complaints about Bylsma's system during his time in Pittsburgh. He came in more than half way through the season and used Michel Theirren's system and won a Cup. The Penguins were already a good team. They had been to the Finals the year before Bylsma took over, and they had some major key injuries during Therrien's last year there. They got a number of good players back from injury just as Bylsma took over. The players had supposedly worn thin on Therrien's coaching style (as often happens with yelling and screaming type coaches), and Bylsma being a new style "player's coach" was a breath of fresh air. He won that Cup playing Therrien's system though.

 

Then Bylsma changed to his system and never won another Cup.

 

His system also evolved in his time in Pitts. At first he played a very up tempo, high scoring, exciting system that guys loved playing in (see 2011 Penguins) and had fun. Then he started to go to a more risk-averse, strict, defense first type system (see his last 2-3 yrs with the Pens) that killed much player creativity and you started hearing about how the Penguins hated playing in his system. There were also a lot of rumors he lost the locker room in Pittsburgh. Mario Lemieux even met with Crosby in the visitor's locker room at Madison Square Garden, during that game 6 in the playoffs because ownership was so worried about how Bylsma had lost the team.

 

 

 

I don't mean to sound like I am totally against Bylsma, because I am not. But I have a lot of issues with the system he plays. I just don't think it takes advantage of the type of team Buffalo has. But he is a proven NHL coach and I would like to see what he can do with a better defense and not so many key injuries. He has to get more player buy-in IMO too. When half the team doesn't seem to be buying in to the system, it is doomed to fail no matter what system it is. And you heard this all season long from reporters who watched the Sabres practice. The coaches would have the players playing a very specific style in practice and then when the game started, half the team would abandon that style of play and do their own thing. That's where we need better leadership IMO, or they need to get our current leaders to buy in more.

 

Sorry this is so long, I actually shortened it up quite a bit... lol. I could go on for days about this stuff. lol

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your very comprehensive response.

 

Paul Hamilton, WGR's hockey man who follows the team, has often made the same point that you made with respect to buy in. He has frequently stated that what is coached in practice is not always followed in the game by a faction of the players. The problem as I see it from a coaching standpoint is that being too rigid can be just as damaging as being too loose. This is a case where the coaches have to bend just as the players have to adjust to the system.

 

In analyzing the Sabres and the season the core problem isn't the system as it is the lack of talent, especially on the blue line. Although coaches and organizations have different styles of play the basics are the same for all team. More often than not when analysts talk about not consistently executing properly what they are really saying is that the players on the ice aren't capable of consistently executing the plays.

 

My take is that the main problem isn't coaching and outsmarting the opposition. It is a talent void in certain areas that over time become magnified and becomes the difference between winning and losing.

[4merper4mer]

That would be cap circumvention. I'm sure he would if he could.

Not to sound like a jerk, but In a way, it's good for the Sabres that Eichel missed his bonus. If he hit it, the Sabres would have been over the cap for this year, and would have had cap penalties next season.

Douche bag? Check.

 

Assemble a roster incapable of succeeding? Check

 

All of the above and STILL narrowly avoid cap penalties? OMG. How can that be an over the cap roster?

[BillsFan4]

Thanks for your very comprehensive response.

 

Paul Hamilton, WGR's hockey man who follows the team, has often made the same point that you made with respect to buy in. He has frequently stated that what is coached in practice is not always followed in the game by a faction of the players. The problem as I see it from a coaching standpoint is that being too rigid can be just as damaging as being too loose. This is a case where the coaches have to bend just as the players have to adjust to the system.

 

In analyzing the Sabres and the season the core problem isn't the system as it is the lack of talent, especially on the blue line. Although coaches and organizations have different styles of play the basics are the same for all team. More often than not when analysts talk about not consistently executing properly what they are really saying is that the players on the ice aren't capable of consistently executing the plays.

 

My take is that the main problem isn't coaching and outsmarting the opposition. It is a talent void in certain areas that over time become magnified and becomes the difference between winning and losing.

 

I agree that I think there needs to be some give and take between the coaches and players. I read/heard that is an issue with Bylsma, being too unwilling to change certain things. Obviously it's also an issue with some players, as we've heard about it all season.

 

And I also agree that lack of talent, especially on the blue line, is a major problem ( I do think we have some very nice offensive talent that didn't show as much as it should have this year). I think the injuries were a major problem too.

But having seen similar problems with Bylsma's Penguins teams as I am seeing with the Sabres, I believe that some of the problem is also Bylsma himself. I have no doubt that some better defenseman will make the Sabres a better team, though. I don't know what type of realistic upgrades we can expect to the blue line next year. I am hopeful that the expansion draft will shake a good defender loose for a reasonable price.

 

Another thing I will mention - One trait I think all good/great coaches have is being able to adapt their scheme to the players they have on their roster, to take best advantage of what they have, and that's one area I think maybe Bylsma seems to be lacking in. IMO part of the issue is that he is asking our players to do things that they are not necessarily best suited to do. I think he could take better advantage of this roster the way it's constructed, instead of trying to rigidly fit it to his system. (I don't know for sure that he is doing this, but it sometimes seems that way to me). I think we have some very nice offensive talent, and I don't think that being ulilized properly.

 

I don't see any rush to fire Bylsma though. I think he deserves at least another season, and a chance with an upgraded blue line + a healthy roster (as the Sabres were near the top of the NHL in man games lost).

I don't see any real reason to be in a huge hurry to hire a new coach yet anyway. Buffalo is not at the point where they are ready to compete for anything yet. So it's not like we need a coach that can push us over that hump. The rebuild isn't even complete yet. The team is still being built.

 

But for me to say he deserves anymore than next season, there has to be some actual improvement next year.. That was a big issue IMO, is that I don't think we really seen much growth in much of the roster. Only a small handful of players showed any forward progress in their development. Other guys seems to go backwards, and it seemed like the roster as a whole took a step backwards as well. Was it just injury related? I don't know.

[bbb]

Douche bag? Check.

 

Assemble a roster incapable of succeeding? Check

 

All of the above and STILL narrowly avoid cap penalties? OMG. How can that be an over the cap roster?

 

He got advice from Doug Whaley.

 

[May Day 10]

Tough way to lose it, but he has only himself to blame while coasting to a 2 points in 6 games finish.

 

When Eichel makes up his mind to play, he is a force as we've seen. But he seems to lack a certain kind of focus at times and that cost him as we saw.

He was outwardly sulking the last handful of games. Hopefully his loss of the bonus gets him to internalize things a little more.

 

 

Today is d day for bylsma, as murray has his pc