plenzmd1 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 How many games if he was on a small market team? But, according to the media in Boston , the NHL came down HARD and is sending a message ! http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/04/06/hurley-hard-to-argue-with-nhls-suspension-of-brad-marchand/
ChevyVanMiller Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 any word on Okposso ? Not much concrete info here, but it paints a dire picture. https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/new-information-on-okposo-who-remains-in-intensive-care?ref=jo
May Day 10 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Not exactly. Sabres were really high on Asplund and moving up 5 slots meant that they got him. Pysyk was not expected to be protected in the Vegas draft & would almost definitely be higher on Vegas' board than anyone else the Sabres would make available (Kulikov being an UFA @ end of this season doesn't factor into Vegas draft), so the Sabres pretty much traded 1 year of Pysyk's services for 1 year of Kulikov's & Asplund. The 3rd round pick was pretty much a throw in. Not saying that his moves are failures yet, more of an incomplete still.... I more-wanted to make the point that he wasnt coming in to a bare cupboard. He had a ton of currency when he came in, along with the promise of multiple top draft selections and a real shot at 2 of Ekblad, Reinhart, McDavid, and Eichel. Not having anything to work with cannot be an excuse if the team remains stuck in the mud another season (as well as the Amerks)
JohnC Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 To make it worse, this is Marchand's FIFTH suspension in his short career, and that's not even mentioning how many fines he's received for other dirty plays (like sucker punching Landeskog for ex), and he gets 2 games for a totally intentional spear to the nuts (but to be fair, some guys wouldn't even get suspended at all for that play). While Ristolainen gets basically 4 games (3 games plus his game misconduct penalty) for a clean hit on a broken play on his very first offense ever. Had Girgensons not intercepted that puck,it was a perfectly clean, legal hit. Ristolainen has absolutely no history of dirty play either. He hardly even takes many penalty minutes. This new player safety department is very, very inconsistent. It almost makes me miss Brendan Shana-ban running things (plus, he wouldn't be with the Leafs either, which would be a huge plus. lol). Risto's hit wasn't clean. He hit a defenseless player who didn't have the puck. A secondary issue is that the hit on this player who didn't have the puck also falls into the category of interference. Arguing a point based on a "what if" Girgensons didn't intercept the puck is not a defense, it is a critical reason why the hit was an infraction. Let's not forget that the illegally hit player was knocked out of the game and concussed. The bottom line is Risto made a bad play and a dangerous play. If Eichel would have been injured in a similar play the hometown chorus would be singing a different tune.
Taro T Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Not saying that his moves are failures yet, more of an incomplete still.... I more-wanted to make the point that he wasnt coming in to a bare cupboard. He had a ton of currency when he came in, along with the promise of multiple top draft selections and a real shot at 2 of Ekblad, Reinhart, McDavid, and Eichel. Not having anything to work with cannot be an excuse if the team remains stuck in the mud another season (as well as the Amerks) And, my comment was strictly referring to your take that if Kulikov isn't re-signed then that trade was a complete loss. ONLY if Asplund ends up a bust as that swap of 2nds was a large component of that trade. Risto's hit wasn't clean. He hit a defenseless player who didn't have the puck. A secondary issue is that the hit on this player who didn't have the puck also falls into the category of interference. Arguing a point based on a "what if" Girgensons didn't intercept the puck is not a defense, it is a critical reason why the hit was an infraction. Let's not forget that the illegally hit player was knocked out of the game and concussed. The bottom line is Risto made a bad play and a dangerous play. If Eichel would have been injured in a similar play the hometown chorus would be singing a different tune. No. The hit wasn't legal. The call on the ice was correct. BUT the hit was not dirty. And there should not have been supplemental discipline, IMHO. There was no obvious intent to injure & as previously pointed out had Girgensons not intercepted the buddy pass it would've been a clean & legal hit. The play was set up to be VERY similar to McCabe's legal hit on Laine earlier this year. The swipe at O'Reilly's twig & berries by Crosby "wasn't clean."
shrader Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 No. The hit wasn't legal. The call on the ice was correct. BUT the hit was not dirty. And there should not have been supplemental discipline, IMHO. There was no obvious intent to injure & as previously pointed out had Girgensons not intercepted the buddy pass it would've been a clean & legal hit. The play was set up to be VERY similar to McCabe's legal hit on Laine earlier this year. The swipe at O'Reilly's twig & berries by Crosby "wasn't clean." I'm with you. His big sin there was taking his eye off the play. He turned his back and played the sound of the puck hitting the wrong stick. This business of suspending players based off of the resulting injury is a majorly flawed approach. Risto's hit is a perfect example. Yes it was interference, but the only intent was to separate the player from the puck. Suspensions should be based more off of sending the message that certain types of play need to be eliminated. I know I've seen a long list of plays that didn't result in injury but were far more egregious, but didn't lead to a suspension since no one was hurt. I wish I could think up some recent examples but I'm coming up blank. Stick swinging incidents, cheap shot punches, most Marchand actions... The recipients wind up being fortunate they're not hurt, thus no suspension is issued and the player gets the message that they can keep on doing what they're doing. I know the league has put a huge focus on targeted head shots and I agree with it. I don't see any justification for calling Risto's a target head shot.
JohnC Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 And, my comment was strictly referring to your take that if Kulikov isn't re-signed then that trade was a complete loss. ONLY if Asplund ends up a bust as that swap of 2nds was a large component of that trade. No. The hit wasn't legal. The call on the ice was correct. BUT the hit was not dirty. And there should not have been supplemental discipline, IMHO. There was no obvious intent to injure & as previously pointed out had Girgensons not intercepted the buddy pass it would've been a clean & legal hit. The play was set up to be VERY similar to McCabe's legal hit on Laine earlier this year. The swipe at O'Reilly's twig & berries by Crosby "wasn't clean." The issue isn't whether it was dirty or not. The issue is whether it was a legal hit and what were the ramifications from it. You acknowledged it wasn't a legal hit so that point isn't being challenged. I also agree with you that Risto is not a dirty player but that doesn't mean that he isn't accountable for his play. The player Risto hit was knocked out of the game and concussed. The player he hit wasn't looking at him and he was defenseless. That scenario also falls within the boundary of an interference infraction. You are making the point that because Risto had no intent to injure or hit illegally that he should not be held accountable for a play that could have seriously injured a player and jeopardized his career. I disagree with that stance. Let's not forget that the player was knocked out of the game and was hurt. On WGR Marty Biron commenting on the hit said before the ruling was made by the league disciplinary office that Risto is going to be suspended and should be suspended for the dangerous play. His judgment was the same as the ruling. It was the right call on the particular play and the right call for the game in general.
Taro T Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 The issue isn't whether it was dirty or not. The issue is whether it was a legal hit and what were the ramifications from it. You acknowledged it wasn't a legal hit so that point isn't being challenged. I also agree with you that Risto is not a dirty player but that doesn't mean that he isn't accountable for his play. The player Risto hit was knocked out of the game and concussed. The player he hit wasn't looking at him and he was defenseless. That scenario also falls within the boundary of an interference infraction. You are making the point that because Risto had no intent to injure or hit illegally that he should not be held accountable for a play that could have seriously injured a player and jeopardized his career. I disagree with that stance. Let's not forget that the player was knocked out of the game and was hurt. On WGR Marty Biron commenting on the hit said before the ruling was made by the league disciplinary office that Risto is going to be suspended and should be suspended for the dangerous play. His judgment was the same as the ruling. It was the right call on the particular play and the right call for the game in general. Not at all. He WAS held accountable IN THE GAME. He interfered w/ the forward & was going to get 2 minutes. The play resulted in an injury, so the punishment was upped to a 5 & a game. That was the appropriate penalty & it was enforced. He suffered the consequence of his action. The league, quite ridiculously IMHO, bases supplemental discipline on results rather than intent. As Shrader correctly pointed out, the league doesn't add supplemental discipline to many infractions that ARE dirty because there was no injury. There is little consistency in the discipline & in this particular case the punishment far exceeded the crime.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 7, 2017 Author Posted April 7, 2017 Great News! @john_wawrow Person with direct knowledge of Kyle Okposo's condition tells The Associated Press the Buffalo #Sabres forward is showing signs of improving @john_wawrow AP source says still no timetable on when #Sabres Okposo can be released from the hospital.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 7, 2017 Author Posted April 7, 2017 @4TomMartin Good news: Source tells me #Sabres' Kyle Okposo has been discharged from Buffalo General Hospital.
JohnC Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Not at all. He WAS held accountable IN THE GAME. He interfered w/ the forward & was going to get 2 minutes. The play resulted in an injury, so the punishment was upped to a 5 & a game. That was the appropriate penalty & it was enforced. He suffered the consequence of his action. The league, quite ridiculously IMHO, bases supplemental discipline on results rather than intent. As Shrader correctly pointed out, the league doesn't add supplemental discipline to many infractions that ARE dirty because there was no injury. There is little consistency in the discipline & in this particular case the punishment far exceeded the crime. With respect to the highlighted area whether you agree with the standard for supplemental discipline isn't the issue. It is the standard whether you agree with it or not. The standard was upheld. The player Risto against the rules hit was injured. The injury is a significant factor in the ruling. Risto certainly didn't intend to hurt the player but he did so on an illegal hit. The ruling didn't consider intent because it wasn't a factor in this case. It was the injury that resulted in the league review and followup punishment. The league doesn't always consider intent when a player is hurt because it is very difficult to determine. A player can be reckless in handling his stick on a play that ends up blinding another player. It doesn't matter that there was no intent because the player is held accountable for the control of his stick. As far as I am concerned the Risto ruling was a fair ruling. The player was held accountable for injuring a player on an illegal hit. This is a simple straightforward issue in which the disciplinary standard was adhered to and applied.
Taro T Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 With respect to the highlighted area whether you agree with the standard for supplemental discipline isn't the issue. It is the standard whether you agree with it or not. The standard was upheld. The player Risto against the rules hit was injured. The injury is a significant factor in the ruling. Risto certainly didn't intend to hurt the player but he did so on an illegal hit. The ruling didn't consider intent because it wasn't a factor in this case. It was the injury that resulted in the league review and followup punishment. The league doesn't always consider intent when a player is hurt because it is very difficult to determine. A player can be reckless in handling his stick on a play that ends up blinding another player. It doesn't matter that there was no intent because the player is held accountable for the control of his stick. As far as I am concerned the Risto ruling was a fair ruling. The player was held accountable for injuring a player on an illegal hit. This is a simple straightforward issue in which the disciplinary standard was adhered to and applied. So what is your opinion of Crosby not getting suspended for slashing Methot's finger off? Though it wasn't ruled a slash on the ice, it was a textbook slash & resulted a grievous permanent injury. How many games should he have gotten?
BillsFan4 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) I agree that Marchand is a serial d-bag and should have gotten a lot more, but that Risto hit was far from clean! Risto's hit wasn't clean. He hit a defenseless player who didn't have the puck. A secondary issue is that the hit on this player who didn't have the puck also falls into the category of interference. Arguing a point based on a "what if" Girgensons didn't intercept the puck is not a defense, it is a critical reason why the hit was an infraction. Let's not forget that the illegally hit player was knocked out of the game and concussed. The bottom line is Risto made a bad play and a dangerous play. If Eichel would have been injured in a similar play the hometown chorus would be singing a different tune. @4TomMartin Good news: Source tells me #Sabres' Kyle Okposo has been discharged from Buffalo General Hospital. This would be fantastic if true!! I agree that Marchand is a serial d-bag and should have gotten a lot more, but that Risto hit was far from clean! Risto's hit wasn't clean. He hit a defenseless player who didn't have the puck. A secondary issue is that the hit on this player who didn't have the puck also falls into the category of interference. Arguing a point based on a "what if" Girgensons didn't intercept the puck is not a defense, it is a critical reason why the hit was an infraction. Let's not forget that the illegally hit player was knocked out of the game and concussed. The bottom line is Risto made a bad play and a dangerous play. If Eichel would have been injured in a similar play the hometown chorus would be singing a different tune. All I was saying is that it wasn't a dirty hit - no targeting the head. No charging. No leaving his feet (etc). I was just saying that if Girgensons doesn't intercept that puck, there is no penalty on the play because it would have been a perfectly clean hit. I know it was interference since the puck didn't get there, and I know it deserved a penalty and maybe a game misconduct. But IMO that should have been the end of it. 3 games on top of that was ridiculous, especially for a guy like Risto, with no history of suspension or dirty play (and with such low penalty minutes too. IIRC I believe he even went a large stretch in the beginning of the year without a single penalty minute, which is pretty amazing considering how many minutes he plays per game). Things happen in a split second on the ice. Ristolainen was skating backwards into the hit and it looked like he did try to slow up but I don't know how realistic it is to expect him to be able to pull out of that hit completely. It was an unfortunate broken play, but absolutely not worthy of 4 missed games in total, IMO. Edited April 7, 2017 by BillsFan4
JohnC Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) So what is your opinion of Crosby not getting suspended for slashing Methot's finger off? Though it wasn't ruled a slash on the ice, it was a textbook slash & resulted a grievous permanent injury. How many games should he have gotten? Crosby should have been called for slashing in the Buffalo game. That's it. With respect to the slash that injured the player whether there was a penalty or no call on the ice when it was reviewed by the league disciplinary office it should have resulted in a disciplinary action. side note: happy about the Okposo discharge news. Edited April 7, 2017 by JohnC
Taro T Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Crosby should have been called for slashing in the Buffalo game. That's it. With respect to the slash that injured the player whether there was a penalty or no call on the ice when it was reviewed by the league disciplinary office it should have resulted in a disciplinary action. side note: happy about the Okposo discharge news. IMHO, Crosby should've recieved a 5 & game for a slash that resulted in an injury. As there was no intent to injure & it was a legit hockey play (note, legit, not legal) there is no cause for supplemental disciple. Intent absolutely factors in on supplemental discipline but there was no intent on the play. It appears we will not agree on this and there is little likelihood either will change the other's opinion, so I will be dropping from this discussion.
JohnC Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 [bIMHO, Crosby should've recieved a 5 & game for a slash that resulted in an injury. As there was no intent to injure & it was a legit hockey play (note, legit, not legal) there is no cause for supplemental disciple.[/b] Intent absolutely factors in on supplemental discipline but there was no intent on the play. It appears we will not agree on this and there is little likelihood either will change the other's opinion, so I will be dropping from this discussion. Go back and re-read what I said. I'm not sure if you accurately read my response. I stated that Crosby should have been suspended for the slash that resulted in an injury.
Taro T Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Go back and re-read what I said. I'm not sure if you accurately read my response. I stated that Crosby should have been suspended for the slash that resulted in an injury. Yes, you'd stated that. And he should not have been suspended for it. (As stated in the post you were responding to. ) He SHOULD have recieved a 5 minute major for the injury inducing slash & the automatic game misconduct that accompanies it. He should NOT have recieved a suspension on top of that. (That he didn't get the 5 & game because the officials were boneheads should not be a reason to give him a suspension. (& yes, we know that is not why you thought he should be suspended. )) There was no intent to injure & it was a normal (though typically illegal) hockey play. That a horrific injury occurred due to seriously bad luck should not make the pkay suspension-worthy. Nor should Ristolainen's hit been suspension-worthy for the same reasoning. We don't see eye-to-eye on this and basically are beating the proverbial deceased equine.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 8, 2017 Author Posted April 8, 2017 VS. SABRES (33-35-12) at PANTHERS (33-36-11)SAT APR 8, 2017 @ 7:00 PM ETTV: MSG-B/NHL TV (FREE)RADIO: WGR 550Sabres Digital Press Box Game PreviewCURRENT INJURIES – (Man Games Lost: 394)Player (injury, first game missed) – total games missedCody McCormick (blood clots, Oct. 13; injured reserve) – 80 gamesJohan Larsson (wrist, Jan. 3; injured reserve) – 44 gamesTaylor Fedun (foot, March 20) – 8 gamesKyle Okposo (illness, March 28) – 4 gamesAnders Nilsson (undisclosed, April 5) – 1 gameTRANSACTIONS IN PAST 7 DAYS4/3: Recalled F Alexander Nylander from Rochester (AHL)4/5: Recalled G Linus Ullmark from Rochester (AHL)4/6: Assigned G Linus Ullmark to Rochester (AHL)4/7: Recalled G Linus Ullmark from Rochester (AHL); Assigned D Brendan Guhle to Rochester (AHL) from Prince George (WHL)REMAINING GAMESSunday, April 9: Buffalo at Tampa Bay, 5 p.m.TONIGHT’S GAMESABRES at PANTHERSThis is the fourth and final meeting between the Sabres and Panthers this season.Last meeting: Buffalo defeated Florida 4-2 in Buffalo on March 27The Sabres are 4-5-1 in their last 10 games vs. the Panthers; 3-4-3 on the road.This is the 92nd game all-time between Buffalo and Florida; Buffalo has a 48-35-8 series record.The Sabres are 21-19-4 on the road against the Panthers all-time.Morning Skate: April 8, 2017 at 11:30 am – 12:30 pm at BB&T Center @BuffaloSabres Jake McCabe reacts to being a healthy scratch against Montreal & other updates from the rink: http://bufsabres.co/PRnTZz Friday's PracticeMarcus Foligno, who left the game on Wednesday with a knee injury, did not practice and will not travel with the team for their final two games in Florida. He ends his season having matched his career high with 23 points (13+10). He set a new career high with 279 hits in 80 games, surpassing his previous mark of 206 set in 2013-14.With Foligno absent, here's a full look at the Sabres' lineup at practice.9 Evander Kane - 90 Ryan O'Reilly - 12 Brian Gionta26 Matt Moulson - 15 Jack Eichel - 23 Sam Reinhart70 Alexander Nylander - 71 Evan Rodrigues - 63 Tyler Ennis44 Nicolas Deslauriers - 28 Zemgus Girgensons - 48 William Carrier/49 C.J. SmithDefensemen: 77 Dmitry Kulikov, 55 Rasmus Ristolainen, 4 Josh Gorges, 41 Justin Falk, 47 Zach Bogosian, 6 Cody Franson, 29 Jake McCabe40 Robin Lehner31 Anders Nilsson
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