Sabres & NHL 2016-17 - Victor Antipin Signs One Year Deal

[ricojes]

According to Hamilton Fowler was also offered to Montreal for their first round pick. They declined the deal. Would Fowler have made much of a difference this year? I'm not so sure that he would have made much of a difference on a unit that is so lacking. My preference is still keeping the pick that was used on Nylander. I also would have preferred that Murray not give up a first round pick for Lehner that could have been used on a player who would now be ready or near ready to play on the top two lines.

The Lehner deal was bad, there's no debating that. He has stretches where he looks great and then has horrible games, I just don't see the consistency from him to ever be a true #1. That being said the 21st pick is a crap shoot for the most part in hockey, but at least there's a chance to get lucky.

Edited April 4, 2017 by ricojes

[JohnC]

 

 

 

Was his suggestion that this deal would be made in place of the Kulikov one or alongside it?

The Kulikov deal had little to do with a Fowler trade consideration. Hamilton has spoken before how Murray had little regard for Pysyk and his style of play. The GM simply felt that Kulikov was an upgrade over Pyysk. Hamilton has commented on how Murray openly disparaged Pysyk when he was in Rochester and Buffalo.

The Lehner deal was bad, there's no debating that. He has stretches where he looks great and then has horrible games, I just don't see the consistency from him to ever be a true #1. That being said the 21st pick is a crap shoot for the most part in hockey, but at least there's a chance to get lucky.

The pick that Ottawa got in the trade was used for one of the top college players who is considered to be ready or near ready to not only make a NHL roster but is good enough to be a top two line player. What was odd about the deal from a Buffalo standpoint is that Ottawa was not going to keep him because they had better goalie alternatives. Giving up a first round pick in that type of situation made no sense.

 

Murray was instrumental in scouting him and selecting him for Ottawa. It was a bias that carried over to his new job and team. Without a doubt the Uncle schooled the hard nosed nephew in the art of the deal.

[ricojes]

The Kulikov deal had little to do with a Fowler trade consideration. Hamilton has spoken before how Murray had little regard for Pysyk and his style of play. The GM simply felt that Kulikov was an upgrade over Pyysk. Hamilton has commented on how Murray openly disparaged Pysyk when he was in Rochester and Buffalo.

The pick that Ottawa got in the trade was used for one of the top college players who is considered to be ready or near ready to not only make a NHL roster but is good enough to be a top two line player. What was odd about the deal from a Buffalo standpoint is that Ottawa was not going to keep him because they had better goalie alternatives. Giving up a first round pick in that type of situation made no sense.

 

Murray was instrumental in scouting him and selecting him for Ottawa. It was a bias that carried over to his new job and team. Without a doubt the Uncle schooled the hard nosed nephew in the art of the deal.

Even if Ottawa released him, the only sure way to guarantee the Sabres got him was to trade for him. I can see why Murray wanted him, he shows flashes of being great and never had to opportunity to play a full season. But a 2nd rounder should have been the absolute highest price or no deal.

[GG]

The Kulikov deal had little to do with a Fowler trade consideration. Hamilton has spoken before how Murray had little regard for Pysyk and his style of play. The GM simply felt that Kulikov was an upgrade over Pyysk. Hamilton has commented on how Murray openly disparaged Pysyk when he was in Rochester and Buffalo.

 

 

Murray's defensive evaluation should definitely be up for debate as in his term he added Gorges, Bogosian & Kulikov and got rid of Myers, Pysyk, & Zadorov.

[4merper4mer]

 

Murray's defensive evaluation should definitely be up for debate as in his term he added Gorges, Bogosian & Kulikov and got rid of Myers, Pysyk, & Zadorov.

Doesn't debate usually involve pro's and con's? Con's and con's don't leave much to be argued.

[GG]

Even if Ottawa released him, the only sure way to guarantee the Sabres got him was to trade for him. I can see why Murray wanted him, he shows flashes of being great and never had to opportunity to play a full season. But a 2nd rounder should have been the absolute highest price or no deal.

 

Don't forget the added favor for uncle Brian to take Legwand's salary off their books.

[JohnC]

Even if Ottawa released him, the only sure way to guarantee the Sabres got him was to trade for him. I can see why Murray wanted him, he shows flashes of being great and never had to opportunity to play a full season. But a 2nd rounder should have been the absolute highest price or no deal.

Sometimes the best deals are the deals not made. Health and temperament concerns were issues that lessened his value on the market. Murray is now facing a big issue for a player he invested in: Is he worth a big contract and long term commitment? I say no. I would have rather have had the departed steady Johnson over the erratic big crazy goal stopper.

 

Murray's defensive evaluation should definitely be up for debate as in his term he added Gorges, Bogosian & Kulikov and got rid of Myers, Pysyk, & Zadorov.

The Kane acquisition made the Winnipeg deal a positive deal. Zadorov deal was part of the O'Reilly deal so I consider it a plus. The Kulikov for Pysyk was a negative deal for us.

 

Gorges is at best at this stage of his career a third pairing who should only be playing between 10 to 14 minutes. Bogosian is a major disappointment. His physical talents don't come close to matching up with his play.

[GG]

Sometimes the best deals are the deals not made. Health and temperament concerns were issues that lessened his value on the market. Murray is now facing a big issue for a player he invested in: Is he worth a big contract and long term commitment? I say no. I would have rather have had the departed steady Johnson over the erratic big crazy goal stopper.

The Kane acquisition made the Winnipeg deal a positive deal. Zadorov deal was part of the O'Reilly deal so I consider it a plus. The Kulikov for Pysyk was a negative deal for us.

 

Gorges is at best at this stage of his career a third pairing who should only be playing between 10 to 14 minutes. Bogosian is a major disappointment. His physical talents don't come close to matching up with his play.

 

The Kane deal had a swap of two defensemen. Murray's thinking had to include a view that Bogosian was a better long term option than Myers. It's not even close.

 

Would Winnipeg be willing to let Kane go for Stafford, Armia, Lemiuex & a 1st rounder? Everybody is talking about how Murray got fleeced for a first rounder in the Lehner trade. But the swap of Myers for Bogo has been a huge negative. Kasdorf was his prototypical goalie prospect who outright sucked. And while Kane is playing up to his billing, please don't tell me that Winnipeg would let him go for a song after he was booted from the locker room.

 

After all, we're talking about a player who had zero trade value this summer - and his trade value in Winnipeg was slightly above that.

 

I'd say that the only clear win for Murray has been the O'Reilly trade.

[shrader]

Kane had a ton of trade value with Winnipeg. He was pretty much the hottest commodity on the trade market at that point. That whole trade still feels like an incomplete to me from the Winnipeg point of view. Stafford was a throw-away and Armia is nothing more than a depth guy. Until we see what Roslovic and Lemieux turn into, there's really nothing to write home about if you're Winnipeg. So as of today, it reduced down to Kane-Bogosian vs. Myers. I'd have to give the edge to Buffalo, but Roslovic looks to be off to a decent start as a pro and could shift the scales.

[26CornerBlitz]

VS.

CANADIENS (46-24-9) at SABRES (32-35-12)

WED APR 5, 2017 @ 7:30 PM ET

TV: MSG-B/SN

RADIO: WGR 550

Sabres Digital Press Box Game Preview

CURRENT INJURIES – (Man Games Lost: 389)

Player (injury, first game missed) – total games missed
Cody McCormick (blood clots, Oct. 13; injured reserve) – 79 games
Johan Larsson (wrist, Jan. 3; injured reserve) – 43 games
Taylor Fedun (foot, March 20) – 7 games
Kyle Okposo (illness, March 28) – 3 games

TRANSACTIONS IN PAST 7 DAYS
3/30: Signed F C.J. Smith to a two-year, entry-level contract; Assigned D Brady Austin to Rochester (AHL)
4/3: Recalled F Alexander Nylander from Rochester (AHL)

REMAINING GAMES
Saturday, April 8: Buffalo at Florida, 7 p.m.
Sunday, April 9: Buffalo at Tampa Bay, 5 p.m.

TONIGHT’S GAME

CANADIENS at SABRES
This is the fourth and final meeting between the Sabres and Canadiens this season.
Last meeting: Montreal defeated Buffalo 5-2 in Montreal on Jan. 31
The Sabres are 5-4-1 in their last 10 games vs. the Canadiens; 3-5-2 at home
This is the 275th game all-time between Buffalo and Montreal; Buffalo has a 125-110-39 series record.
The Sabres are 71-39-26 at home against the Canadiens all-time

Morning Skate: April 5, 2017 at 10:00 am – 11:00 am at KeyBank Center

 

@BuffaloSabres

Sabres hope to put on a show for fans tomorrow. #15: "They're nothing but great to us, nothing but great to me." http://bufsabres.co/5Gv1v3

 

 

Tuesday's Practice

Now a full week after he was forced to miss the Sabres' game in Columbus due to an illness, Kyle Okposo remained absent from practice on Tuesday. Dan Bylsma said Okposo's condition has yet to improve, and added that Okposo has met with

team doctors to try and get more information on his ailment.

With Okposo still absent, here's how the lineup looked at practice:

9 Evander Kane - 90 Ryan O'Reilly - 12 Brian Gionta
82 Marcus Foligno - 15 Jack Eichel - 23 Sam Reinhart
49 C.J. Smith/70 Alexander Nylander - 71 Evan Rodrigues - 63 Tyler Ennis
48 William Carrier/44 Nicolas Deslauriers - 28 Zemgus Girgensons - 26 Matt Moulson

4 Josh Gorges - 55 Rasmus Ristolainen
29 Jake McCabe - 47 Zach Bogosian
77 Dmitry Kulikov - 6 Cody Franson
41 Justin Falk

40 Robin Lehner
31 Anders Nilsson

Edited April 5, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[Alaska Darin]

What Babcock did is called leverage.

bull **** revisionist history. Detroit was more than happy to give Babcock a king's ransom to stay. To say nothing of the other coaching vacancies - he also visited San Jose, you know, the team that went to the Finals last season.

Listen, I get it. It's hard to win in the NHL. God forbid Murray was a decent guy and treated people nicely and with respect. If he did he would have been vilified and run out of town already like Jauron. Jauron's record is far better than Murray's and yet Murray is the guy we're supposed to all get behind while Jauron was the worst coach ever? Why? Does Murray really get that much of a pass simply for being a complete and total douche bag all the time? Whatever.

You clearly don't "get it". It takes a LONG time to rebuild a franchise that's been blown up. High NHL draft choices generally don't make a huge difference for at least 2 seasons, most even more. MURRAY'S TENURE IN BUFFALO IS BARELY 3 CALENDAR YEARS. If you think comparing a GM to a head coach is valid, you're an idiot.

Ideally no franchise would have frequent changes in management but ineptitude is ineptitude. What is he going to do about the defense? Is there a shred of evidence he even has a clue what to do? Will he draft a couple of good ones and put us on a 5 year plan to get the 8 seed? OMG.

Let's play this game: What would you have done differently? Be specific. Tell us what free agents you would have signed at the price they'd have taken to join a team that was CLEARLY not going to contend in the short term.

And how bad a track record can a guy have with goalies? When he was TRYING TO LOSE he couldn't even pick the right goalie. He had to trade two of them away. Then when he is supposedly trying to win he puts all his eggs in the basket of a psychotic freak with a neck tattoo that plays with all the consistency of a psychotic freak with a neck tattoo. Great one day, horrible the next. And honestly would anyone be surprised if his stick broke and he murdered an opposing player right in his crease by stabbing him with the jagged end? And all of that because our viable alternative supposedly had a gentleman's agreement to stay and then boom......gone. If that happened to Jauron it would have been a bunch of "nice guys finished last" being written everywhere but when it happens to Murray it's Chad Johnson who is to blame. Murray gets a pass because he is a douche bag. It's weird.

This one never gets tired. Where do Buffalo's goalies rank in the NHL behind the defense you keep bashing. Yeah, now STFU.

[plenzmd1]

Yep, the building is dead, but at least Jack gets it( or his PR coach does)

 

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/jack-eichel-appreciates-loyalty-sabres-fans/

Edited April 4, 2017 by plenzmd1

[BillsFan4]

Who hired Bylsma? How much respect did Babcock have for Murray? Who forgot to hire actual defenseman? Murray is the architect of the disaster that Bylsma can't turn around. If the players have respect for Murray it is youthful naïveté. I'm not defending Bylsma but I'm not going to slam him for being unable to make lemonade from the stream of lemons Murray dished out.

Actually, Babcock and Murray are friends. Tim Murray was a big part of Anaheim hiring Babcock for his first NHL coaching job in Anaheim and I guess they've been friends ever since. Babcock even made a point of saying at his Toronto introductory press conference that not choosing the Sabres has nothing to do with Tim Murray. He said he couldn't make Buffalo work with his family. I believe it was Bob McKenzie (IIRC) who said that Babcock's wife nixed the Sabres deal. I guess she didn't want to live in Buffalo (or would rather live in Toronto, since that's where she's from and still has family there).

 

To be clear, I am still very much up in the air on Tim Murray. But I don't have nearly the hate for him that you do. He is very well respected in the NHL as a talent evaluator. I think we need to give him more time before we can make a definitive judgement on him. He's done some things I like and he's done some things that I hate, but every GMmis like that. The next 2 seasons will be big for Tim Murray. Some of his drafted players should be ready for the AHL and NHL, so we will get a better idea of things IMO.

But he has to address the blue line in a meaningful way this offseason or everyone will be looking for new jobs in a year...

[BillsFan4]

The Kane deal had a swap of two defensemen. Murray's thinking had to include a view that Bogosian was a better long term option than Myers. It's not even close.

 

Would Winnipeg be willing to let Kane go for Stafford, Armia, Lemiuex & a 1st rounder? Everybody is talking about how Murray got fleeced for a first rounder in the Lehner trade. But the swap of Myers for Bogo has been a huge negative. Kasdorf was his prototypical goalie prospect who outright sucked. And while Kane is playing up to his billing, please don't tell me that Winnipeg would let him go for a song after he was booted from the locker room.

 

After all, we're talking about a player who had zero trade value this summer - and his trade value in Winnipeg was slightly above that.

 

I'd say that the only clear win for Murray has been the O'Reilly trade.

I think about what could have been with those two 1st round picks in 2015 given up for Kane and Lehner. That was an insanely deep draft. If you look at the players that would have been available for our picks at 21 and 25 - Connor Brown, Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Jacob Larsson, Jack Roslovic, Noah Juulsen, Anthony Beauvillier, Travis Dermott, Sebastion Aho, Brandon Carlo (and the list goes on).

 

You add 2 players like Konecny and Brown/Boeser/Aho to our forward prospects or Larsson and Carlo to our defensive prospects,and this team could look much different...

 

But, to be fair, Tim Murray said he was planning on using that #21 pick on a goalie anyway, so if it wasn't traded for Lehner, we'd probably have someone like Ilya Samsonov, so... (and it'll be years before he's ready for the NHL).

 

We needed a goalie now, so I get it, and Murray did get one of the 2 best available goalies that offseason.

But I'd rather have just signed Chad Johnson or some other stop gap or found a cheaper alternative. Or like others said, only given up a 2nd for Lehner (although then we may not have Brendan Guhle, who I am very high on).

 

The book is still very much out on Lehner though. He is very young by NHL starting goalie standards. A lot of very good #1 goalies never even played an NHL game until they were 24/25/26 years old, and Lehner is only 25. So he's ahead of the curve as far as that goes.

 

I think the book is still out on both those trades. I was never a fan of the Kane trade from day 1, but he does add a lot of value on the ice, and he may still end up being traded for a good defenseman, so I will hold judgement until I see if he's re-signed or traded and for what/how much...

Also, IMO I think Bogosian for Myers was basically a wash. Both are injured about the same amount and both are very similar as far as skill/value, but they just play different styles and Bogosian's toughness was something desperately needed in Buffalo at the time of the trade. Bogosian looked great that first 1/2 season after the trade. Not sure what's happened to him since then...

 

But I think Tim Murray has tended to give up 1 too many assets in most trades IMO. You take that 1st round pick or Lemieux/Armia out of the Kane trade, or one of the 2nd round picks out of the Fasching trade and those trades look much different IMO.

[thebug]

Yep, the building is dead, but at least Jack gets it( or his PR coach does)

 

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/jack-eichel-appreciates-loyalty-sabres-fans/

Sure didn't look like it during the 2nd intermission of Sunday's Islander game. While coming out of the dressing room the entire team (as well as disco Dan) was fist pumping a large group of fans (mostly kids) lined up waiting for them. Every player but Jack. He walked by about 3 feet to left of his team as they all went down the line of fans. Didn't even look their way and had a sulking look on his face like he had just been scolded by the coach. At that moment my only thought was, disco Dan is done!

 

It was disappointing to see and those actions speak louder than words.

[Tiberius]

Kyle Okposo is really sick I guess. I sure hope he is better soon. Such a good person

[4merper4mer]

bull **** revisionist history. Detroit was more than happy to give Babcock a king's ransom to stay. To say nothing of the other coaching vacancies - he also visited San Jose, you know, the team that went to the Finals last season.

 

 

Well, maybe he was serious about coming here. In which case Murray failed to close the deal. Or maybe he never was. Either way, he isn't here.

 

 

You clearly don't "get it". It takes a LONG time to rebuild a franchise that's been blown up. High NHL draft choices generally don't make a huge difference for at least 2 seasons, most even more. MURRAY'S TENURE IN BUFFALO IS BARELY 3 CALENDAR YEARS.

 

 

 

 

I will readily admit to not being a hockey expert. That's part of the reason I come here...to learn. And when I asked what to expect and when, it was stated over and over and over again that we would definitely contend for a playoff spot this year. That wasn't something that came close to happening. The Sabres have one of the worst records in hockey and their horrible defense is going even further backwards as their already over the hill players get even older.

 

 

 

If you think comparing a GM to a head coach is valid, you're an idiot.

 

 

 

 

I'm really more comparing a person to another person. Jauron is still regarded as a loser around these parts and clearly seen as more of a loser than alpha male Marrone, dickhead Greggo and even whiny Mularky. Why? His record with what he was given is arguably better than any of them. His roster was terrible. But he was a nice guy so everyone has fun piling on. Murray is a caustic jerkazoid so I guess we can never call him a loser? No thanks. He's a loser. Because he is a douche everyone is afraid to call him a loser?

 

 

Let's play this game: What would you have done differently? Be specific. Tell us what free agents you would have signed at the price they'd have taken to join a team that was CLEARLY not going to contend in the short term.

 

 

If I were the Sabres GM I probably wouldn't do that well. I wasn't brought up in a hockey family. I don't have an uncle that can fleece me in trades while pretending to give me advice and I'm not sure how to scout players. I might have accepted that trade to get Fowler on the team or maybe not. One thing I would actually probably do better than Murray is listen to other people. I don't always think I the smartest guy in the room and I don't look down on other people.

 

One thing I would definitely do better than Murray is holding off on being a gigantic douche bag to everyone I encounter at least until I won something to back it up.

 

 

 

This one never gets tired. Where do Buffalo's goalies rank in the NHL behind the defense you keep bashing. Yeah, now STFU.

 

 

Do you think Lehner can ever be consistent enough to be the goalie on a team that wins four playoff series in a row? Sabers or another team? Ever?

 

I don't. There have been crazy goalies but Lehner seems more like Aaron Hernandez than Ed Belfour.

[26CornerBlitz]

@ISShockey

NEW RELEASE April Release of the @ISShockey Top 31 Rankings of the top prospects for 2017 NHL Entry Draft: http://iss.tw/2o2KIxQ

[26CornerBlitz]

@BuffNewsVogl

Caption this. #HaveFun

 

[ChevyVanMiller]

@BuffNewsVogl

Caption this. #HaveFun

 

Robyn Lehner works on his mobility in the net.