shrader Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 JohnC thinks nuts to trade him now...i say for any kind of top level D prospect, he's gots to go! I'm not so sure that's out there though. I have no idea how realistic it is, but I think at this point they need to make a serious run at Shattenkirk in the offseason. You'll immediately get a much stronger contribution from your blueline that way.
K-9 Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 IMO, here's what's wrong with the Sabres in a nut shell; too many players, especially among the highly paid long time vets, that are just too comfortable playing hockey and collecting fat check. I recently heard one of the NBCSN guys recount the story about how Joe Thorton, after a huge loss, got on the plane to see a bunch of dejected teammates and told them to have some "perspective"; that they were getting paid to play the game they've loved since childhood and they needed to keep that in mind instead of letting it get them down. BULLSCHIT!!! Perspective is nice, but we don't need guys with the kind of perspective that makes them OK with whatever outcome. We need hungry players that won't tolerate a loss. We need guys that take losing PERSONALLY. And we have precious few on this squad that seem to take it that way. We need somebody to tell the coaches to get the phuck out of the room, toss the music players, and rip them all a new one when they lose important games. I've said it a lot recently; we need a new Drury.
JohnC Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 I'm unrepentant UNTIL they find more talent. Until then: You are a recalcitrant! JohnC thinks nuts to trade him now...i say for any kind of top level D prospect, he's gots to go! It would be a terrible mistake to get rid of one of the few scorers on this barren team. I'm not against trading anyone if it would upgrade the team for the long-haul. But right now the best strategy to take is to have him showcase his natural scoring talents and increase his market value. As I (and others) have said his game is not very cerebral and it is too untamed for many. But steadily he seems to be limiting his wildness and conforming his game more to the confines of his unit.
JohnC Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 He could be very useful later on when the talent level is increased. But if the deal is right, then off he goes. When you have money in the bank you don't quickly take it out unless you are undisciplined. Be patient and let the asset grow before being tempted to get rid of an asset that is steadily growing in value. Some of you hockey afficionados have me perplexed. You act as if scorers grow on trees. When you have one you should value it more. Filling a hole to create a bigger hole is an act of futility. There is a need here to be more restrained with one's trade impulses.
JohnC Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 IMO, here's what's wrong with the Sabres in a nut shell; too many players, especially among the highly paid long time vets, that are just too comfortable playing hockey and collecting fat check. I recently heard one of the NBCSN guys recount the story about how Joe Thorton, after a huge loss, got on the plane to see a bunch of dejected teammates and told them to have some "perspective"; that they were getting paid to play the game they've loved since childhood and they needed to keep that in mind instead of letting it get them down. BULLSCHIT!!! Perspective is nice, but we don't need guys with the kind of perspective that makes them OK with whatever outcome. We need hungry players that won't tolerate a loss. We need guys that take losing PERSONALLY. And we have precious few on this squad that seem to take it that way. We need somebody to tell the coaches to get the phuck out of the room, toss the music players, and rip them all a new one when they lose important games. I've said it a lot recently; we need a new Drury. I'm not suggesting what you are saying doesn't have merit because it certainly does. But the reality is that this team lacks enough talent to be a well rounded team. As you and many others have pointed out our blue line deficiency is so glaring that it bleeds over to the forward lines. When the Sabres played a game in Chicago, a game they lost in OT, regardless what the score was the Blackhawks dominated us on the ice. They simply had more better players. Most recently when the Sabres played the Maple Leafs what was obvious to me is that the opposition had more better young players than we did. Sometimes the eye test is more telling than the stats. This team simply isn't good enough yet to keep up with the really good teams. I hate coming to this conclusion because the expectations were high entering the season. But you don't get better and find solutions by not facing the reality that at this point were not good enough.
QCity Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Kane is on a pace to score ~30 goals over an 82 game season. He plays LW -- not exactly a position we have depth at (unless you have faith in Ennis lasting a season). He's one of the fastest skaters on the team, and getting slower isn't typically a recipe for success. He can be aggravating to watch at times but he's not the problem with this team. If you want to ditch Kane for his off-ice antics, yeah, I get that. But trading him for D doesn't make sense when we traded a 1st pair D to get him in the first place.
ricojes Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) I'm not suggesting what you are saying doesn't have merit because it certainly does. But the reality is that this team lacks enough talent to be a well rounded team. As you and many others have pointed out our blue line deficiency is so glaring that it bleeds over to the forward lines. When the Sabres played a game in Chicago, a game they lost in OT, regardless what the score was the Blackhawks dominated us on the ice. They simply had more better players. Most recently when the Sabres played the Maple Leafs what was obvious to me is that the opposition had more better young players than we did. Sometimes the eye test is more telling than the stats. This team simply isn't good enough yet to keep up with the really good teams. I hate coming to this conclusion because the expectations were high entering the season. But you don't get better and find solutions by not facing the reality that at this point were not good enough. You're right, this team isn't good enough. But contending for a playoff spot isn't exactly high expectations. Anyone who expected more in the second full season of a rebuild was asking for too much. Edited January 19, 2017 by ricojes
JohnC Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 You're right, this team isn't good enough. But contending for a playoff spot isn't exactly high expectations. Anyone who expected more in the second full season of a rebuild was asking for too much. What has increased the frustration level with this team is that Toronto, a team that many analysts said was behind us in the rebuild, clearly turned out to be ahead of us. That turn of events just magnified the local reaction and disappointment. What the Toronto organization smartly did was get rid of their expensive veterans who were still good and in return got an infusion of young talent that has accelerated the rebuilding process. The problem with the Sabres is that the veterans that we dealt had little value.
JohnC Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 The attached link is from WGR and the Instigator Show. Craig Button talks with the hosts about the Sabres and a variety of other topics. Good hockey talk. It is a 17 minute piece. http://media.wgr550.com/a/118152673/01-19-tsn-s-craig-button-with-the-instigators.htm
snafu Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 You are a recalcitrant! It would be a terrible mistake to get rid of one of the few scorers on this barren team. I'm not against trading anyone if it would upgrade the team for the long-haul. But right now the best strategy to take is to have him showcase his natural scoring talents and increase his market value. As I (and others) have said his game is not very cerebral and it is too untamed for many. But steadily he seems to be limiting his wildness and conforming his game more to the confines of his unit. What I was trying to inartfully say about Kane is that I see merit in both ideas. I actually see keeping him as a long-term plus. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to keep him. I know he scores goals. However, he is difficult to fit into this lineup and I've made it clear in earlier posts what role I think he could do best (and I will add that I think Bailey can eventually replace Kane). Giving up his goal scoring for a defenseman who will presumably prevent a similar amount of goals is at least a wash.
shrader Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 What has increased the frustration level with this team is that Toronto, a team that many analysts said was behind us in the rebuild, clearly turned out to be ahead of us. That turn of events just magnified the local reaction and disappointment. What the Toronto organization smartly did was get rid of their expensive veterans who were still good and in return got an infusion of young talent that has accelerated the rebuilding process. The problem with the Sabres is that the veterans that we dealt had little value. What if this whole thing with Toronto is just a flash in the pan and guys fall back down to earth this year? I know people love playing the comparison game, but this whole thing needs to be less about Toronto and more about Buffalo. They need to be their own measuring stick.
JohnC Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) What I was trying to inartfully say about Kane is that I see merit in both ideas. I actually see keeping him as a long-term plus. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to keep him. I know he scores goals. However, he is difficult to fit into this lineup and I've made it clear in earlier posts what role I think he could do best (and I will add that I think Bailey can eventually replace Kane). Giving up his goal scoring for a defenseman who will presumably prevent a similar amount of goals is at least a wash. At this time I resolutely say no. He has recently demonstrated that he can play (somewhat better) within the confines of the unit. If you examine his scoring most of his goals are in good scoring positions. His smarter play seems to coincide when he got playing time with Gionta. I recognize that he is still a work in progress but right not he is our best five on five scorer. When you have a dearth of scorers why is it sensible to get rid of one of the few natural scorers you have and make your paltry offense even more impotent? Whether you are artful or not in expressing your thoughts on this issue I am not altering my view. However, everything is subject to change with me. Equivocating is something I do with great frequency. With regard to the highlighted area the comparison between Bailey and Kane is like comparing Rosie O'Donnel to Kate Upton. Your view of beauty is freakishly different from my view of beauty. Edited January 20, 2017 by JohnC
26CornerBlitz Posted January 20, 2017 Author Posted January 20, 2017 VS. RED WINGS (20-19-6) at SABRES (17-18-9)FRI JAN 20, 2017 @ 7:00 PM ETTV: MSG-BRADIO: WGR 550Sabres Digital Press Box Game PreviewCURRENT INJURIES – (Man Games Lost: 220)Player (injury, first game missed) – total games missedCody McCormick (blood clots, Oct. 13; injured reserve) – 44 gamesDmitry Kulikov (lower back, Dec. 29; injured reserve) – 10 gamesJohan Larsson (wrist, Jan. 3; injured reserve) – 8 gamesJosh Gorges (hip, Jan. 7) – 6 gamesTRANSACTIONS IN PAST 7 DAYS1/14: Assigned F Justin Bailey and G Linus Ullmark to Rochester (AHL)1/16: Recalled F Cal O’Reilly from Rochester (AHL); Activated F Tyler Ennis from IR1/19: Recalled G Linus Ullmark from Rochester (AHL)UPCOMING GAMESSaturday, Jan. 21: Buffalo at Montreal, 7 p.m.Tuesday, Jan. 24: Buffalo at Nashville, 8 p.m.Thursday, Jan. 26: Buffalo at Dallas, 8:30 p.m.Tuesday, Jan. 31: Buffalo at Montreal, 7:30 p.m.Thursday, Feb. 2: NY Rangers at Buffalo, 7:30 p.m.TONIGHT’S GAMERED WINGS at SABRESThis is third of four meetings between the Sabres and Red Wings this season.Last meeting: Buffalo defeated Detroit 4-3 in Detroit on Dec. 27, 2016Next meeting: Monday, March 20 in DetroitThe Sabres are 2-6-2 in their last 10 games vs. the Red Wings; 2-6-2 at home.This is the 132nd game all-time between Buffalo and Detroit; Buffalo has a 56-57-18 series record.The Sabres are 35-19-10 at home against the Red Wings all-time.Morning Skate: January 20, 2017 at 10:00 am – 11:00 am at KeyBank Center @BuffaloSabres A new look for @Icebeardude + some quotes from Robin Lehner as Sabres prep for Detroit: http://bufsabres.co/MDGR5H "I don't know of any goalie who likes to be pulled.. he and I have talked about it, & we're moving forward." More: http://bufsabres.co/0aBonQ
JohnC Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 What if this whole thing with Toronto is just a flash in the pan and guys fall back down to earth this year? I know people love playing the comparison game, but this whole thing needs to be less about Toronto and more about Buffalo. They need to be their own measuring stick. I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your view. The best way to compare progress to compare teams to one another. Teams don't compete against themselves; they compete against one another. If your team starts off as being as good as another team but then the other team improves at a faster rate you can't say that your team is better than the competition because relatively they have surpassed you. Toronto is not a flash in the pan. They have made a quantum leap over the past couple of years. They are mostly young, and those young players are going to get better. I hate to say it but the obvious is obvious: The Maple Leafs have done a better and smarter rebuild job than the Sabres. Hometown bias does not alter reality.
ricojes Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) What has increased the frustration level with this team is that Toronto, a team that many analysts said was behind us in the rebuild, clearly turned out to be ahead of us. That turn of events just magnified the local reaction and disappointment. What the Toronto organization smartly did was get rid of their expensive veterans who were still good and in return got an infusion of young talent that has accelerated the rebuilding process. The problem with the Sabres is that the veterans that we dealt had little value. Let's see where Toronto ends up at the season. They have been on a great run these last 10 games, I don't see it lasting. I do think their young players are performing a whole lot better than ours to this point, but I don't think they're a playoff team yet. Edited January 20, 2017 by ricojes
26CornerBlitz Posted January 20, 2017 Author Posted January 20, 2017 @BillHoppeNHL You'll want to read this short piece on Robin Lehner defending himself http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-goalie-robin-lehner-defends-wave-dont-care-anyone-thinks/ 'I don't care what anyone thinks." #Sabres Evander Kane on his hot goal stretch, role on the #Sabres, linemates & more http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-evander-kane-one-nhls-hottest-scorers/ "I can do more." #Buffalo
snafu Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 At this time I resolutely say no. He has recently demonstrated that he can play (somewhat better) within the confines of the unit. If you examine his scoring most of his goals are in good scoring positions. His smarter play seems to coincide when he got playing time with Gionta. I recognize that he is still a work in progress but right not he is our best five on five scorer. When you have a dearth of scorers why is it sensible to get rid of one of the few natural scorers you have and make your paltry offense even more impotent? Whether you are artful or not in expressing your thoughts on this issue I am not altering my view. However, everything is subject to change with me. Equivocating is something I do with great frequency. With regard to the highlighted area the comparison between Bailey and Kane is like comparing Rosie O'Donnel to Kate Upton. Your view of beauty is freakishly different from my view of beauty. I can't help you if you think Rosie O'Donnell is a beauty. That's on you.
Doc Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 What has increased the frustration level with this team is that Toronto, a team that many analysts said was behind us in the rebuild, clearly turned out to be ahead of us. That turn of events just magnified the local reaction and disappointment. What the Toronto organization smartly did was get rid of their expensive veterans who were still good and in return got an infusion of young talent that has accelerated the rebuilding process. The problem with the Sabres is that the veterans that we dealt had little value. Eich missing half the season is a major reason why the Sabres are behind the Leafs. Call it an excuse if you want but it's the truth.
QCity Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Eich missing half the season is a major reason why the Sabres are behind the Leafs. Call it an excuse if you want but it's the truth. Nah, that excuse is gone. Eich missed a quarter of the season and we were only 1 point behind the Leafs when he got back. The Leafs are pulling away and the Sabres are stuck in neutral. In the week before X-mas we had a nice 5-game stretch against some of the worst teams in the league, and we got absolutely drubbed (while healthy). That was the "Oh %" moment. Edited January 20, 2017 by QCity
26CornerBlitz Posted January 20, 2017 Author Posted January 20, 2017 Outrage! You are dead to me John Cooper! @DaveDavisHockey Tampa coach Jon Cooper has a nickname for his 4th line: the "French Connection". https://t.co/YWnC0YKqhn
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