Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Lehner flat out sucks. I don't care about his GAA or his save percentage, he sucks. Can't play the puck behind the net, lets in the softest goals imaginable and not close to being worth the pick we gave up to get him. And just as I type this, he gets schooled again and has to leave. Stupid decision by Bylsma to play him in back to backs, too. This team blows. yep
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Schopp is saying that our young players are not improving which makes me wonder if Bylsma is the right coach for the job?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 The Leafs have a little moreover talent, much better defense, are better coached, and have better goaltending. And if Eichel, OReilly twice, and Kane and Kulikoff weren't out of the lineup at all, but Matthews missed half the games and Marner and Mitchell and three other guys missed the same as our guy, they would be where we are and we would likely be close to where they are. But I agree they are better coached and have more raw talent and our defense stinks and Lehner has been lousy.
JohnC Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 The Leafs have a little moreover talent, much better defense, are better coached, and have better goaltending. And if Eichel, OReilly twice, and Kane and Kulikoff weren't out of the lineup at all, but Matthews missed half the games and Marner and Mitchell and three other guys missed the same as our guy, they would be where we are and we would likely be close to where they are. But I agree they are better coached and have more raw talent and our defense stinks and Lehner has been lousy. The consensus prior to the season was that the Sabres were ahead of the Maple Leafs in the rebuild. That assessment has clearly changed even when both teams are fully healthy. The problem for the Sabres is that their deficiency on defense is so glaring that it detracts from the forward lines not only from a defensive standpoint but also an offensive standpoint. As Mike Robitaille on the WGR link pointed out both Columbus and Toronto were behind us last year. The Sabres were on a pace for the second half of the season last year to be a playoff team. The trajectory was in the right direction. But even when accounting for injuries, which all teams have to contend with, something has gone wrong this year that has derailed that positive trajectory.
snafu Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 I see absolutely no problem with the talent up front on this team, except the need for one more in the top 6. It all falls back on what I've been saying for a while now, the blue line. It doesn't matter what you have up front when you're essentially stuck in a 5-on-3 situation for more than half of the game due to all the dead weight back there. I'm not sold on Toronto's blue line either, but they've found a way to work with that and that all reflects on the coaching. The link is from Buffalo News and written by Mike Harrington. It speaks to K-9's comments and the comparison between the two teams' rebuild. It was a fair and good analysis. One keen observation by Harrington was that the Sabres have too many dead weight players (which not also noted) that have served to be a drag on the team. They were the GM acquisitions. http://buffalonews.com/2017/01/17/mike-harrington-sabres-getting-left-dust-leafs-rebuild/http://buffalonews.com/2017/01/17/mike-harrington-sabres-getting-left-dust-leafs-rebuild/ I like this conversation. I'm not going to read the article until after I post this. It is much more than top six forwards. If you want a short-term, squeak into the 8th spot then I agree with you. But there are several forwards on the team that need to be upgraded in order to get to the top. Moulson, Gionta, Foligno (though he serves a purpose). Kane can be traded for immediate blue line help or can stay and eventually be a solid (best in the league type) fourth line guy in a few years, when the other forwards are upgraded. Ennis isn't a top six guy and he's not suitable for the third or fourth lines. Each of these guys have a role, but their jobs can be done better by better players. The team needs at least three defenseman, presuming that Ghule plays next season with the Sabres. Yes to Risto and McCabe, and maybe Bogosian. The Kulikov trade was bad in hindsight, but I understand the fact that they were looking for a left handed defenseman. Letting Kulikov go will be one way to save dead weight $$ (but I think there's a lot of extra salary players who won't be around next year). I think a few of those dead weight players were brought in to (a) give the younger guys some sort of example of how to act like a vet and (b) to spend up to the salary floor. They certainly weren't brought in for immediate help. I hate the focus on big goaltenders. Size doesn't mask bad goaltending. Big goalies have a hard time moving laterally, and if they go down too early then they're just big immobile walruses. People will probably argue with this, but the way this team is presently made up, they should be dumping and chasing with solid puck support as a general rule and (sorry John C) they should be trapping when the other team gets possession and moves out through the neutral zone. This is the only way I see to use the young legs and take some pressure off the blueliners. it doesn't have to be a focus of every game, but it would help against a team like Toronto who has speed and a shaky defense. All in all this is a classic .500 team. For two games or so they put in a good effort, but they can't sustain success because they're not nearly talented enough. No amount of good coaching will get them to the playoffs this year, and Bylsma won't either. Last thought: I would never get rid of Reinhart. Eventually he can become like Hossa. He's got a hockey brain and skills to go with it and he goes to the net when others won't. He can kill a penalty and contribute on the power play. He should wear the "C" when Gionta goes.
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Last thought: I would never get rid of Reinhart. Eventually he can become like Hossa. He's got a hockey brain and skills to go with it and he goes to the net when others won't. He can kill a penalty and contribute on the power play. He should wear the "C" when Gionta goes. I would not like to get rid of him either...but something has to give to get a bona fide top 4 for next year. For the anti-Lehner crowd, this is a good article. I Like Davis, seems like a sharp guy every time I read him. I am neutral on the guy(why i hate the trade) , but this is one side i guess. http://kuklaskorner.com/tso/comments/lehner-trade-hasnt-worked-out Edited January 19, 2017 by plenzmd1
snafu Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 The attached link is an 18 minute hockey discussion with Mike Robitaille on WGR. It is timely and relates to the discussion we are having hear. You can hear the frustration and exasperation in Mike's voice and comments when talking about this team. What he is advocating is being aggressive in changing the roster because it is evident that things are not working out with the current roster. He makes a keen observation and puts it in a question form by asking why is it that Columbus and Toronto who were behind us last year took a quantum leap forward this year and we didn't? http://media.wgr550.com/a/118137074/01-18-one-goal-show-with-mike-robitaille.htm You can ask that same question Robitaille asked about the Bills vs. the Giants (and other teams) I would not like to get rid of him either...but something has to give to get a bona fide top 4 for next year. For the anti-Lehner crowd, this is a good article. I Like Davis, seems like a sharp guy every time I read him. I am neutral on the guy(why i hate the trade) , but this is one side i guess. http://kuklaskorner.com/tso/comments/lehner-trade-hasnt-worked-out I think they can find someone in free agency. They'll have a good amount of money to spend. I also prefer that if they do make a trade at this point of in the team's development, it is a body for a body, not picks.
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 You can ask that same question Robitaille asked about the Bills vs. the Giants (and other teams) I think they can find someone in free agency. They'll have a good amount of money to spend. I also prefer that if they do make a trade at this point of in the team's development, it is a body for a body, not picks. I guess they have Kulikov and Gionta coming off contract, but still will have to buy out Moulson or Gorges. Then they have to be thinking Sam and Jack are going to need new deals for 18/19 and beyond...just don't see the room to sign a "name" without money going out. Kane does expire after 17/18 though. Losing BOGO in the expansion draft would be a godsend.... The Leafs were able to trade Clarkson and Phaneuf contracts...any chance we got of offloading Gorges, Bogo and Moulson at the deadline? No matter what the return at the deadline, and even if the Sabres need to retain some salary!
4merper4mer Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Unless the expansion team drafts our GM, we are in bad shape. At this point it is unimaginably bad. I think Eichel embraced his role here but unless something changes he is going to walk the second he can. Murray is the main issue.
snafu Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 I guess they have Kulikov and Gionta coming off contract, but still will have to buy out Moulson or Gorges. Then they have to be thinking Sam and Jack are going to need new deals for 18/19 and beyond...just don't see the room to sign a "name" without money going out. Kane does expire after 17/18 though. Losing BOGO in the expansion draft would be a godsend.... The Leafs were able to trade Clarkson and Phaneuf contracts...any chance we got of offloading Gorges, Bogo and Moulson at the deadline? No matter what the return at the deadline, and even if the Sabres need to retain some salary! Gionta + McCormick + Kulikov + Franson = $12.5 million. Each of their deals are done at the end of this season. By that alone, I think they could have some money left for upgrades or even one big name (which I personally wouldn't do). The biggest cap hits you see around the league are $10 million. I wouldn't count on moving anyone, but I also don't think it matters much and I don't think they have money issues.
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Gionta + McCormick + Kulikov + Franson = $12.5 million. Each of their deals are done at the end of this season. By that alone, I think they could have some money left for upgrades or even one big name (which I personally wouldn't do). The biggest cap hits you see around the league are $10 million. I wouldn't count on moving anyone, but I also don't think it matters much and I don't think they have money issues. Thank you...forgot about Cody Mac and Franson.
shrader Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 The consensus prior to the season was that the Sabres were ahead of the Maple Leafs in the rebuild. That assessment has clearly changed even when both teams are fully healthy. The problem for the Sabres is that their deficiency on defense is so glaring that it detracts from the forward lines not only from a defensive standpoint but also an offensive standpoint. As Mike Robitaille on the WGR link pointed out both Columbus and Toronto were behind us last year. The Sabres were on a pace for the second half of the season last year to be a playoff team. The trajectory was in the right direction. But even when accounting for injuries, which all teams have to contend with, something has gone wrong this year that has derailed that positive trajectory. I don't think that Columbus really belongs in the conversation. They've been on a completely different track for a while now. The last year or two, they were a popular pick for that team that was finally going to break through. For whatever reason, they underachieved last year. Whether it was something as simple as Johansen-Jones deal that shook things up, they were clearly on the right path for a while.
JohnC Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 I like this conversation. I'm not going to read the article until after I post this. It is much more than top six forwards. If you want a short-term, squeak into the 8th spot then I agree with you. But there are several forwards on the team that need to be upgraded in order to get to the top. Moulson, Gionta, Foligno (though he serves a purpose). Kane can be traded for immediate blue line help or can stay and eventually be a solid (best in the league type) fourth line guy in a few years, when the other forwards are upgraded. Ennis isn't a top six guy and he's not suitable for the third or fourth lines. Each of these guys have a role, but their jobs can be done better by better players. The team needs at least three defenseman, presuming that Ghule plays next season with the Sabres. Yes to Risto and McCabe, and maybe Bogosian. The Kulikov trade was bad in hindsight, but I understand the fact that they were looking for a left handed defenseman. Letting Kulikov go will be one way to save dead weight $$ (but I think there's a lot of extra salary players who won't be around next year). I think a few of those dead weight players were brought in to (a) give the younger guys some sort of example of how to act like a vet and (b) to spend up to the salary floor. They certainly weren't brought in for immediate help. I hate the focus on big goaltenders. Size doesn't mask bad goaltending. Big goalies have a hard time moving laterally, and if they go down too early then they're just big immobile walruses. People will probably argue with this, but the way this team is presently made up, they should be dumping and chasing with solid puck support as a general rule and (sorry John C) they should be trapping when the other team gets possession and moves out through the neutral zone. This is the only way I see to use the young legs and take some pressure off the blueliners. it doesn't have to be a focus of every game, but it would help against a team like Toronto who has speed and a shaky defense. All in all this is a classic .500 team. For two games or so they put in a good effort, but they can't sustain success because they're not nearly talented enough. No amount of good coaching will get them to the playoffs this year, and Bylsma won't either. Last thought: I would never get rid of Reinhart. Eventually he can become like Hossa. He's got a hockey brain and skills to go with it and he goes to the net when others won't. He can kill a penalty and contribute on the power play. He should wear the "C" when Gionta goes. You are hereby banished from this hockey forum for the seditious suggestion of promoting trapping, a cancer on this sport. For punishment you will have to watch 100 consecutive hours of Jersey Devil games under Lou Lamirello's gut wrenching style of play. Until you cleanse your soul from that impure thought you will be scorned until rehabilitated. Teams resort to trapping when they lack talent and can't keep up. The more acceptable approach and aesthetic approach is to get a better mix of talented players. Do you know what is worse than losing? Being boring to the point of suffocation. Your trapping suggestion has gotten me riled up. Repent or be gone! I guess they have Kulikov and Gionta coming off contract, but still will have to buy out Moulson or Gorges. Then they have to be thinking Sam and Jack are going to need new deals for 18/19 and beyond...just don't see the room to sign a "name" without money going out. Kane does expire after 17/18 though. Losing BOGO in the expansion draft would be a godsend.... The Leafs were able to trade Clarkson and Phaneuf contracts...any chance we got of offloading Gorges, Bogo and Moulson at the deadline? No matter what the return at the deadline, and even if the Sabres need to retain some salary! You bring up a player that has disappointed me. I really thought Bogosian was going to be a good player, second pairing type of player. He has the physical attributes such as size, skating ability and skill. But something is missing? The parts don't add up to the whole. Maybe the accumulated injuries have taken its toll? Maybe the better approach for him to take is to be less of a banger and be more of a puck mover i.e. less muscle and more finesse. The bottom line is that I'm disappointed in a player I had higher hopes for. I don't think that Columbus really belongs in the conversation. They've been on a completely different track for a while now. The last year or two, they were a popular pick for that team that was finally going to break through. For whatever reason, they underachieved last year. Whether it was something as simple as Johansen-Jones deal that shook things up, they were clearly on the right path for a while. I respectfully disagree with your assessment that Columbus shouldn't be brought up in the Robitaille analysis. From a talent standpoint you are right that they had a larger base of talent to work with compared to Buffalo and Toronto who were starting from the ground up. But the point that Mike Robitaille was making in referring to Columbus was that something jolted this underachieving franchise. Was it the tiresome new hard-arse coach or was it a player/s subtraction or addition to change the dynamic of the team? That was the point he was getting at. I thought it was a keen observation.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 @Dave_Stubbs This day in 1970: Buffalo, still not named #Sabres & nine months from their first game, hire Punch Imlach as their first GM and coach Any chance Terry Pegula could reanimate Punch and make him GM again?
26CornerBlitz Posted January 19, 2017 Author Posted January 19, 2017 @Real_ESPNLeBrun My Q and A with the bearded one, Sabres star Ryan O'Reilly: https://t.co/7v7yOits6p
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) This from Scott Burnside of ESPN: It has been a pretty messy season for the Buffalo Sabres. It's clear this team, currently 15th in the Eastern Conference, isn't anywhere near as good as many of us believed it might be. Which leads us to Evander Kane. The 25-year-old has played only 32 games but is second on the team with 11 goals, so teams will be interested if Kane's in play. His off-ice issues have been well-documented, but could the Sabres afford to part with the skilled forward if there was a blue-chip defensive prospect in return? GM Tim Murray isn't afraid of the big deal and this might be the time to revisit dealing Kane, who would be a nice fit in his hometown of Vancouver. From Burnsides keystrokes to Gods' ears! Edited January 19, 2017 by plenzmd1
ricojes Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 This from Scott Burnside of ESPN: It has been a pretty messy season for the Buffalo Sabres. It's clear this team, currently 15th in the Eastern Conference, isn't anywhere near as good as many of us believed it might be. Which leads us to Evander Kane. The 25-year-old has played only 32 games but is second on the team with 11 goals, so teams will be interested if Kane's in play. His off-ice issues have been well-documented, but could the Sabres afford to part with the skilled forward if there was a blue-chip defensive prospect in return? GM Tim Murray isn't afraid of the big deal and this might be the time to revisit dealing Kane, who would be a nice fit in his hometown of Vancouver. From Burnsides keystrokes to Gods' ears! Pretty much what most here were saying pre-season. Hopefully he can pad that stats and have some good trade value.
snafu Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 You are hereby banished from this hockey forum for the seditious suggestion of promoting trapping, a cancer on this sport. For punishment you will have to watch 100 consecutive hours of Jersey Devil games under Lou Lamirello's gut wrenching style of play. Until you cleanse your soul from that impure thought you will be scorned until rehabilitated. Teams resort to trapping when they lack talent and can't keep up. The more acceptable approach and aesthetic approach is to get a better mix of talented players. Do you know what is worse than losing? Being boring to the point of suffocation. Your trapping suggestion has gotten me riled up. Repent or be gone! I'm unrepentant UNTIL they find more talent. Until then:
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Pretty much what most here were saying pre-season. Hopefully he can pad that stats and have some good trade value. JohnC thinks nuts to trade him now...i say for any kind of top level D prospect, he's gots to go!
snafu Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 JohnC thinks nuts to trade him now...i say for any kind of top level D prospect, he's gots to go! He could be very useful later on when the talent level is increased. But if the deal is right, then off he goes.
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