Marquise Goodwin Listed on SI's 50 Fittest List

[mrags]

Why is anyone still arguing about a guy that has less than 20 receptions and 3 TDs in 3 years???

 

Why? Why? Why?

[mannc]

Why is anyone still arguing about a guy that has less than 20 receptions and 3 TDs in 3 years???

 

Why? Why? Why?

Obviously, because people want to talk about it. If you don't care, then why do you post so frequently on this topic?? Why, why, why??

[mrags]

Obviously, because people want to talk about it. If you don't care, then why do you post so frequently on this topic?? Why, why, why??

because I love you

[Deranged Rhino]

BADOL, so you are saying Glass is a bad teammate. Do you have any evidence that Goodwin is disliked or resented in the lockerroom due to the reasons you have identified? For that matter, do you have any evidence that the injuries he has suffered as a Bill were caused by his pursuit of his track career, as opposed to bad luck or just being small? I agree that he has been a disappointing draft pick so far--especially since Markus Wheaton was available and picked next by the Steelers--but I would argue that that is primarily because of injuries. He still has enormous untapped ability and potential, which is what makes this a topic worth discussing, still.

 

Of course he doesn't. Just like there's no evidence Goodwin mislead the team.

 

He's reaching because he's got nothing but speculation and his own narcissism to fall back on.

 

The amount of digital ink spilled to slam a guy for being a world class athlete, a guy who might not even make the team with or without the Olympics, says a lot more about those posters' own envy than it does about Goodwin.

[3rdand12]

I have said before and it seems bearing repeating, if only for Mrags sake.

Bills could dump him anytime.

B word about the FO if you don't want MG on the team.

[BADOLBILZ]

BADOL, so you are saying Glass is a bad teammate. Do you have any evidence that Goodwin is disliked or resented in the lockerroom due to the reasons you have identified? For that matter, do you have any evidence that the injuries he has suffered as a Bill were caused by his pursuit of his track career, as opposed to bad luck or just being small? I agree that he has been a disappointing draft pick so far--especially since Markus Wheaton was available and picked next by the Steelers--but I would argue that that is primarily because of injuries. He still has enormous untapped ability and potential, which is what makes this a topic worth discussing, still.

 

Yes he is a bad teammate.

 

I have no evidence that he is liked or disliked by teammates.......but just to be clear.......do you understand that those are two separate questions?

 

I mean if Glass was slipping estrogen into Kolby's muscle milk.......and he doesn't hear the tree fall..........is there a forest? Get my drift?

 

You don't have to be disliked to be a bad teammate........if you are being PAID to be all-in and you aren't.......you are by definition a bad teammate.

 

(I apologize but whenever Deranged A is in a thread I worry that my writing is getting too literal. He's such a critic of the non-professional writers of TSW.)

 

So in summation, Glass is a bad teammate, a bad employee and subsequently, worthy of fan scrutiny.

 

I mean......he's gone out of his way to broadly criticize Bills fans even though there are many den-mothers among them who think he is just as cute as a button with his 2 quart head in a 10 gallon snapback.

 

I hadn't really contemplated the idea of being jealous of Glass........but I do covet his ability to make big plays........I want scores and W's.......I root for the laundry on Sundays......even if it doesn't fit right.

 

And the only evidence I have of his lack of specific football training leading to injuries is that players traditionally put weight/muscle on their frames to protect them from injury.

 

This belief is held in the same regard as the theory of water-being-wet..........but there is much abstract thought on TSW so I am sure we can find dissenters of both notions here.

 

But what we do know is that extra padding in places like the shoulders and the neck, thighs and forearms....... is a huge detriment when you are trying to be as piss in the wind........a butterfly......adjusting your long jump strategy to "compensate for the wind" and still finishing tenth when you were the favorite......means only one thing......gotta' get lighter.

 

Until this recent article my speculation about him not sufficiently fortifying his meat-suit was unproven.

 

I've had people on this very board argue that he hadn't been building his body any differently for track than he would have for football.....so called-trackies......but can we admit now that obviously he was?

 

In closing........this is a civil case.........I don't need covert cell phone video of Glass talking about how he cuckolded "Doug" and conned the Bills into paying him $2M by saying that he was a football player who kinda dabbled in gymnastics and then apparently proceeding to cartwheel and present with great aplomb on twitter while he was supposed to be nursing his injuries................the evidence is well above the threshold, IMO.

 

But again.......I don't hate the guy........I just don't respect him for half-steppin' as a Bill.

 

It is possible to draw a distinction. If he were an acquaintance at the tailgate I might find his workers comp scams less offensive.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

So in summation, Glass is a bad teammate, a bad employee and subsequently, worthy of fan scrutiny.

 

 

I'd also point out, again, the Bills gave him permission to train for the Olympics. When your bosses give you leave, you can't play the bad employee card. Sorry.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[FireChan]

 

I'd also point out, again, the Bills gave him permission to train for the Olympics. When your bosses give you leave, you can't play the bad employee card. Sorry.

That's assuming a normal employee-employer relationship. Which the NFL does not have. Id like to see you get permission from your employer to take 2 months off to pursue your love of Kazoo.

[Deranged Rhino]

That's assuming a normal employee-employer relationship. Which the NFL does not have. Id like to see you get permission from your employer to take 2 months off to pursue your love of Kazoo.

You're assuming the olympics is a normal pursuit. It's not. It's an exceptional pursuit. Like I said earlier, not all dreams are equal.

 

Round and round it goes.

 

End of the day all you have is speculation on what Goodwin told the Bills and your opinion on what he owes the team in terms of commitment. What he owes the fans is entirely irrelevant (imo). But regardless, it's still just lamenting about a borderline roster guy because he has the opportunity to compete on the greatest stage in sports. I'm a football fan way more than I am of the olympics too -- but not everyone has the same opinion, nor should they. Why is Goodwin choosing to pursue his dream such a big deal when the team gave him permission to do so, drafted him with the understanding this was a possibility, and the guy is a coin flip decision in terms of making the final roster?

 

It's being upset just to be upset.

[machine gun kelly]

First, I think it's great Goodwin could take a medal in the Olympics,many of he has permission from his team, what is the problem?

 

Second, he is a marginal player that should have been cut two years ago, and I do not understand this fascination with speed. Antonio Brown is probably the best NFL WR right now, and had a poor 40 time at the combine, but is an amazing route runner, and has football speed,and change of direction. Stop with the 40 times, and find good football players. That's why I think Treadwell another poor 40 time guy will do well in MN as he runs excellent routes, and has good hands.

 

I hope we cut him to get someone who can contribute more, and stays healthy. This Lewis kid seems like an interesting project. He's put on muscle, has the size, and could be a good red zone threat.

[FireChan]

You're assuming the olympics is a normal pursuit. It's not. It's an exceptional pursuit. Like I said earlier, not all dreams are equal.

 

Round and round it goes.

 

End of the day all you have is speculation on what Goodwin told the Bills and your opinion on what he owes the team in terms of commitment. What he owes the fans is entirely irrelevant (imo). But regardless, it's still just lamenting about a borderline roster guy because he has the opportunity to compete on the greatest stage in sports. I'm a football fan way more than I am of the olympics too -- but not everyone has the same opinion, nor should they. Why is Goodwin choosing to pursue his dream such a big deal when the team gave him permission to do so, drafted him with the understanding this was a possibility, and the guy is a coin flip decision in terms of making the final roster?

 

It's being upset just to be upset.

Because I want all Bills to succeed at being Bills. And Goodwin is hurting his chances to do so.

 

I'm not entirely upset, because he is definitely a long shot. I just wouldn't be doing what he's doing. That's really it.

[BADOLBILZ]

First, I think it's great Goodwin could take a medal in the Olympics,many of he has permission from his team, what is the problem?

 

Second, he is a marginal player that should have been cut two years ago, and I do not understand this fascination with speed. Antonio Brown is probably the best NFL WR right now, and had a poor 40 time at the combine, but is an amazing route runner, and has football speed,and change of direction. Stop with the 40 times, and find good football players. That's why I think Treadwell another poor 40 time guy will do well in MN as he runs excellent routes, and has good hands.

 

I hope we cut him to get someone who can contribute more, and stays healthy. This Lewis kid seems like an interesting project. He's put on muscle, has the size, and could be a good red zone threat.

 

 

1) Permission doesn't mean they think it's the best thing for the team, it just means that they think they would have to release him if they didn't permit it......and they'd OBVIOUSLY rather not do that.

 

Goodwin's talent and inexpensive contract have provided him leverage.......by virtue of his speed and athleticism he would have had no problem getting an NFL job for the same money if he had been cut the past few seasons. If he were just some injury-prone longshot they'd have injury-settled and dumped him last fall. Some of you don't seem to recognize this fact.

 

2) Antonio Brown ran a 4.47 at the combine and a 4.35 at his pro day.......that's not as good as Goodwin's 4.28 and most of Goodwin's other measurables are better but Brown isn't just some try-hard. He had a nice base to work with.

 

3) Brown is a good example of what Goodwin's ceiling was.......but the difference is mostly that Brown has been determined to become what he is. He wanted to be a GREAT football player and has been willing to pay the price.

 

Goodwin has been working toward other goals that GREATLY conflict with being an NFL player.

 

How great? Great enough that he's afraid to even run routes in shorts at camp.

 

He has been protecting his body by refusing to play with pain the past few seasons. It's a fact not lost on everyone.

 

Because Goodwin is going to report to camp about 20 pounds below the weight he should be at this stage in his career........after an offseason of not training or working on his football game............the likelihood that he will be ready produce this year even if he's ready to pay the price is admittedly not good.

 

But he's still here because of his elite potential as a playmaker.

 

Unfortunately sometimes you don't get the best out of a player you draft because it takes a while to develop them. It can be because they are a QB and just need time for the game to slow down........or it can be a guy like Goodwin who had NO REAL INCENTIVE to sacrifice his body for his first contract.

 

The best hope for the Bills is that he starts playing for that "second contract" this year.

[Deranged Rhino]

Because I want all Bills to succeed at being Bills. And Goodwin is hurting his chances to do so.

 

I'm not entirely upset, because he is definitely a long shot. I just wouldn't be doing what he's doing. That's really it.

 

As do I -- but I also can't bring myself to think less of a guy who wants to chase his dream when he goes about it the right way, which MG is from all accounts. His teammates like him, the front office is supporting him, and even though I don't share the same dream or aspirations as MG I get why a world class track and field guy would hold the Olympics above the NFL, especially when he's clearly a better track and field guy than he is a football player.

 

I don't get why this has turned into a conversation about how he suckered the team and fans.

 

That's just a stretch to me.

 

 

 

1) Permission doesn't mean they think it's the best thing for the team, it just means that they think they would have to release him if they didn't permit it......and they'd OBVIOUSLY rather not do that.

 

 

That's complete and total speculation. You do not know what the team thinks, you're making a large assumption here.

 

 

Goodwin's talent and inexpensive contract have provided him leverage.......by virtue of his speed and athleticism he would have had no problem getting an NFL job for the same money if he had been cut the past few seasons. If he were just some injury-prone longshot they'd have injury-settled and dumped him last fall. Some of you don't seem to recognize this fact.

 

Garbage take. Hot. Garbage.

 

He has value to the team because he's a talented player. Doesn't mean he has leverage. There are lots of talented players in the league and if the Bills really were upset they could cut him. You're talking about a guy who's played 2 games last year and 24 (out of a possible 48) games in his whole 3 year career.

 

 

 

3) Brown is a good example of what Goodwin's ceiling was.......but the difference is mostly that Brown has been determined to become what he is. He wanted to be a GREAT football player and has been willing to pay the price.

 

 

It's amazing how you know what people think. You're reaching so hard because you don't agree with the guy's goals. That says way more about you than it does about MG.

 

Brown never had a chance to compete in the Olympics. Goodwin did. Thus, Brown never had to make the choice or multitask in the way MG has.

 

So, yet another garbage take.

 

 

 

Goodwin has been working toward other goals that GREATLY conflict with being an NFL player.

 

How great? Great enough that he's afraid to even run routes in shorts at camp.

 

He has been protecting his body by refusing to play with pain the past few seasons. It's a fact not lost on everyone.

 

 

More speculation designed to prove your point -- which, as stated above, is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Goodwin gave up his body for the team on several occasions. He's sacrificed and played through pain his rookie and sophomore years on the team.

 

So, again, you're wrong.

 

Because Goodwin is going to report to camp about 20 pounds below the weight he should be at this stage in his career........after an offseason of not training or working on his football game............the likelihood that he will be ready produce this year even if he's ready to pay the price is admittedly not good.

 

That's his choice to make and he made it. He will have to suffer the consequences if it does impact his ability to make the team. The team and MG both have been clear on this point, they both understand and accept it.

 

Different people are motivated by different things. MG wants to represent his country and compete on sports biggest stage more than he wants to be on an NFL roster. That's not a crime, no matter how much it ruffles your feathers.

 

 

But he's still here because of his elite potential as a playmaker.

 

Unfortunately sometimes you don't get the best out of a player you draft because it takes a while to develop them. It can be because they are a QB and just need time for the game to slow down........or it can be a guy like Goodwin who had NO REAL INCENTIVE to sacrifice his body for his first contract.

 

The best hope for the Bills is that he starts playing for that "second contract" this year.

 

Garbage take to close it out. Good work. Solid bit of speculative nonsense here.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I'd also point out, again, the Bills gave him permission to train for the Olympics. When your bosses give you leave, you can't play the bad employee card. Sorry.

 

 

Giving leave is not an endorsement.

 

It's usually just a no-win situation for the employer to deny it.......so they are just inclined let it's run it's course.

 

IMO, this has been the case with Goodwin.

 

They don't want to give up on his potential just yet and if they said no to his aspirations they would have had to cut him......there is no doubting his determination to go thru with this one way or another.

 

You can argue with me if you want.......I'm trying not to be condescending about this subject but you don't appear to understand a management perspective about leave.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

Giving leave is not an endorsement.

 

It's usually just a no-win situation for the employer to deny it.......so they are just inclined let it's run it's course.

 

IMO, this has been the case with Goodwin.

 

 

So, you're admitting you're speculating (wildly -- because what you're saying runs counter to everything that's come out of OBD since this possibility arose) but still convinced your hot take is accurate?

 

The narcissism is strong in you. Are you related to OC?

 

They don't want to give up on his potential just yet and if they said no to his aspirations they would have had to cut him......there is no doubting his determination to go thru with this one way or another.

 

 

They knew before they drafted him there was a chance they'd be in this position. They had the opportunity to avoid it completely by not drafting him or cutting him. They drafted him anyway. Why? Because this isn't as big of an issue as you want it to be.

 

They realize he's an employee, not an indentured servant. He's free to pursue his own life on his own time -- and he's gotten permission to do so on the team's time.

 

 

 

You can argue with me if you want.......I'm trying not to be condescending about this subject but you don't appear to understand a management perspective about leave.

 

I'm not arguing with you. I'm flat out saying your take is speculative and incorrect. You are not bringing any facts, instead you're making stuff up (he never played through pain, he didn't risk his body -- both of which are demonstrably untrue statements) to fit your case.

 

I do understand management's perspective on this. They made their bed, they didn't have to draft MG or keep him on the roster but they did. The team seems happy with how things are going, and they retain the right to release MG if they wish at any point. He has ZERO leverage.

 

What I don't understand is why fans care. Football is not a year round job, despite the league's hype. This isn't a number 1 or even number 2 WR, he's a guy who played two games last year. His impact on the team's fortunes in 2016 will be minimal with or without the Olympics. The fact you're so upset about this, calling the guy out as somehow holding the team hostage, is absurd and says way more about you than it does MG.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

As do I -- but I also can't bring myself to think less of a guy who wants to chase his dream when he goes about it the right way, which MG is from all accounts. His teammates like him, the front office is supporting him, and even though I don't share the same dream or aspirations as MG I get why a world class track and field guy would hold the Olympics above the NFL, especially when he's clearly a better track and field guy than he is a football player.

 

I don't get why this has turned into a conversation about how he suckered the team and fans.

 

That's just a stretch to me.

 

 

That's complete and total speculation. You do not know what the team thinks, you're making a large assumption here.

 

 

Garbage take. Hot. Garbage.

 

He has value to the team because he's a talented player. Doesn't mean he has leverage. There are lots of talented players in the league and if the Bills really were upset they could cut him. You're talking about a guy who's played 2 games last year and 24 (out of a possible 48) games in his whole 3 year career.

 

 

 

It's amazing how you know what people think. You're reaching so hard because you don't agree with the guy's goals. That says way more about you than it does about MG.

 

Brown never had a chance to compete in the Olympics. Goodwin did. Thus, Brown never had to make the choice or multitask in the way MG has.

 

So, yet another garbage take.

 

 

 

More speculation designed to prove your point -- which, as stated above, is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Goodwin gave up his body for the team on several occasions. He's sacrificed and played through pain his rookie and sophomore years on the team.

 

So, again, you're wrong.

 

 

That's his choice to make and he made it. He will have to suffer the consequences if it does impact his ability to make the team. The team and MG both have been clear on this point, they both understand and accept it.

 

Different people are motivated by different things. MG wants to represent his country and compete on sports biggest stage more than he wants to be on an NFL roster. That's not a crime, no matter how much it ruffles your feathers.

 

 

Garbage take to close it out. Good work. Solid bit of speculative nonsense here.

 

 

Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean I'm mad bro.

 

It's sad to see potential wasted.......but so be it........it's only a topic of discussion because it's our hobby.

 

But you go right to the ad hominem whether I give you stats or a reasoned opinion with basis.......so debating with you is kind of pointless.

 

If you aren't going to present a rational argument and just want to yell at me for disagreeing with you it could be handled with a pm.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean I'm mad bro.

 

It's sad to see potential wasted.......but so be it........it's only a topic of discussion because it's our hobby.

 

But you go right to the ad hominem whether I give you stats or a reasoned opinion with basis.......so debating with you is kind of pointless.

 

If you aren't going to present a rational argument and just want to yell at me for disagreeing with you it could be handled with a pm.

 

You didn't give stats or fact based opinion, let alone a rational argument.

 

You invented your own takes on what the front office was thinking, what MG was thinking, and what he's willing to risk and then pretended those were facts.

 

That's just weak.

And incorrect.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

So, you're admitting you're speculating (wildly -- because what you're saying runs counter to everything that's come out of OBD since this possibility arose) but still convinced your hot take is accurate?

 

The narcissism is strong in you. Are you related to OC?

 

 

They knew before they drafted him there was a chance they'd be in this position. They had the opportunity to avoid it completely by not drafting him or cutting him. They drafted him anyway. Why? Because this isn't as big of an issue as you want it to be.

 

They realize he's an employee, not an indentured servant. He's free to pursue his own life on his own time -- and he's gotten permission to do so on the team's time.

 

 

I'm not arguing with you. I'm flat out saying your take is speculative and incorrect. You are not bringing any facts, instead you're making stuff up (he never played through pain, he didn't risk his body -- both of which are demonstrably untrue statements) to fit your case.

 

I do understand management's perspective on this. They made their bed, they didn't have to draft MG or keep him on the roster but they did. The team seems happy with how things are going, and they retain the right to release MG if they wish at any point. He has ZERO leverage.

 

What I don't understand is why fans care. Football is not a year round job, despite the league's hype. This isn't a number 1 or even number 2 WR, he's a guy who played two games last year. His impact on the team's fortunes in 2016 will be minimal with or without the Olympics. The fact you're so upset about this, calling the guy out as somehow holding the team hostage, is absurd and says way more about you than it does MG.

 

 

We are going to have to let it play out Greggy.

 

I've been down this road before with my speculative "hot garbage" takes on CJ Spiller and SJ13 and so forth........in the end there are no awards for being right so I'm not going to get bent about it.

 

But you aren't advancing the discussion with things like "I'm flat out saying your take is speculative and incorrect"............which is criticizing me for speculating......while you in turn you speculate.

 

I'm honestly a little surprised by the lack of awareness in your writing.

 

You didn't give stats or fact based opinion, let alone a rational argument.

 

You invented your own takes on what the front office was thinking, what MG was thinking, and what he's willing to risk and then pretended those were facts.

 

That's just weak.

And incorrect.

 

 

I'm just talking about debating with you in general.

 

If you disagree it instantly becomes personal and you lose perspective and evidence becomes inconsequential.

 

But you get camel toe when it comes to the Shady injury clause.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

We are going to have to let it play out Greggy.

 

I've been down this road before with my speculative "hot garbage" takes on CJ Spiller and SJ13 and so forth........in the end there are no awards for being right so I'm not going to get bent about it.

 

Oh, look! He's back to bringing up his takes on Stevie and Spiller!

 

Who won the bet on that one?

 

"There are no rewards for being right" -- which is why BADOL always brings up the times he was right. Don't you see how those kind of statements, which you make one after the other with absolutely no sign of irony, make you look a bit unhinged and, dare I say, narcissistic?

 

You're a riot.

 

 

But you aren't advancing the discussion with things like "I'm flat out saying your take is speculative and incorrect"............which is criticizing me for speculating......while you in turn you speculate.

 

You might need to brush up on what speculation means. When you claim to know what OBD, MG, and Antonio Brown are thinking and pass those off as facts -- that's speculation in the worst way. It adds nothing to this conversation other than giving your argument weight. It's a really, really, weak way to make a case.

 

Pointing out your speculation -- is not speculating on my part. Repeating what the front office, his teammates and MG himself have said is also not speculation.

 

So, you're wrong. Again. Shocking.

 

 

If you disagree it instantly becomes personal and you lose perspective and evidence becomes inconsequential.

 

 

Again, not true. You're once again speculating and assuming you know what I'm thinking. If you knew what I was thinking, you'd know why this is so absurd.

 

When I see a weak post, I call it out for what it is. And your posts in this thread have been weak. As weak as your takes in the Shady thread.

 

That's not personal. That's TSW 101. Step your game up.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Oh, look! He's back to bringing up his takes on Stevie and Spiller!

 

Who won the bet on that one?

 

"There are no rewards for being right" -- which is why BADOL always brings up the times he was right. Don't you see how those kind of statements, which you make one after the other with absolutely no sign of irony, make you look a bit unhinged and, dare I say, narcissistic?

 

You're a riot.

 

 

You might need to brush up on what speculation means. When you claim to know what OBD, MG, and Antonio Brown are thinking and pass those off as facts -- that's speculation in the worst way. It adds nothing to this conversation other than giving your argument weight. It's a really, really, weak way to make a case.

 

Pointing out your speculation -- is not speculating on my part. Repeating what the front office, his teammates and MG himself have said is also not speculation.

 

So, you're wrong. Again. Shocking.

 

 

Again, not true. You're once again speculating and assuming you know what I'm thinking. If you knew what I was thinking, you'd know why this is so absurd.

 

When I see a weak post, I call it out for what it is. And your posts in this thread have been weak. As weak as your takes in the Shady thread.

 

That's not personal. That's TSW 101. Step your game up.

 

 

What is presented to the public by an organization is......well.......sometimes.......often even.......not the truth..........can we agree on this fact?

 

So assuming it is their real opinion remains speculative.

 

Marquise definitely has a public "vote of confidence" from the front office.

 

I have made it clear that it is my OPINION that they would rather he was dedicated full time to football............you think they would rather that he pursue his life's dream......I think the Bills know that the two are not mutually exclusive.......he will not do one in Buffalo if not allowed to do the other.........so we simply disagree about why they are letting him not participate in football activities.

 

Like I said, we'll have to let it play out.

 

Unfortunately, in my position, judging character and evaluating other organizations motives and strategies are how I pay the bills so while I am not always right.......I do know something about what I am talking about.

 

It's entirely why I was right about my other "hot garbage" takes........it's not something I get off on, it's actually sometimes discouraging knowing the futility of certain endeavors.

 

Marquise IMO is an example of a person who lacks the consciousness to re-route his wiring.

 

He's unaware of his own limitations and focused only on a short term goal.......... for people like this......failure and the need to not have one's financial security compromised is often the motivation to get them on the path to success.

 

He's not going to be motivated until the threat is real.

 

To this point......it really hasn't been.

 

As I've said.......he's had virtually no reason to make sacrifices as a pro football player........he is under a near minimum contract and his talent will open doors for the time being.

 

Again.......I repeat.......it's my opinion and regardless of your ad hominem attacks you will also just have to let it play out before you can accurately state that I am wrong.