Are the Bills really in "Win Now" mode?

[machine gun kelly]

Do you think Hughes, Dareus, Glenn, and possibly Gilmore/Taylor all get signed under the ownership of Ralph? If you don't see any tangible difference, it's simply because your eyes are closed.

26 CB- I agree it is such a nice change to see us develop and retain our talent. That is new. If we lock up Gilmore, that will cement for me we are building more through the draft and we can keep our people. People want to be here. I'd rather give a nice second contract to our starting talent, than bring in free agents. I'd much rather bring in role players at a decent price for depth. The Corbin Bryant's of the world who is a solid player, but doesn't break the bank.

 

I also think it's a change taking a wait and see on TT, than giving Fitzy a contract after five games. If TT comes through this year, he makes strides ahead, and we make the playoffs with probably a tougher schedule, I'd love to see us spend for a starting QB, and not worry about that position for several years.

[Talley56]

Every team is in 'win now' mode.

 

Every team is in 'development' mode.

 

Its a stupid term.

I tend to agree with this. I would say probably front office is in development mode all the time and players are in win now mode all the time. I recall the year the Colts "sucked for Luck" they upset a significantly better Texans team late in the season in a win that nearly cost them the #1 pick for Andrew Luck. I don't believe for one second they were thinking of throwing that game to make sure they end up with the 1st pick.

[Ronin]

 

Do you think Hughes, Dareus, Glenn, and possibly Gilmore/Taylor all get signed under the ownership of Ralph? If you don't see any tangible difference, it's simply because your eyes are closed.

 

You missed the point entirely.

26 CB- I agree it is such a nice change to see us develop and retain our talent. That is new. If we lock up Gilmore, that will cement for me we are building more through the draft and we can keep our people. People want to be here. I'd rather give a nice second contract to our starting talent, than bring in free agents. I'd much rather bring in role players at a decent price for depth. The Corbin Bryant's of the world who is a solid player, but doesn't break the bank.

 

I also think it's a change taking a wait and see on TT, than giving Fitzy a contract after five games. If TT comes through this year, he makes strides ahead, and we make the playoffs with probably a tougher schedule, I'd love to see us spend for a starting QB, and not worry about that position for several years.

 

That is a large part of the point that I made earlier.

 

26 misses the fact that the same people that made those decisions are the ones that DRASTICALLY overpaid for Mario which was obvious from the beginning, gave Fitzpatrick that enormous and ridiculous contract, Traded an additional 1st-rounder and 4th for Watkins, who besides not even being able to stay healthy isn't even among the top-2 possibly the top-3 WRs in his own draft class, certainly not nearly enough to warrant that trade, reached for role-player Spiller, reached massively for Manuel, and now this year with Lawson.

 

It's nice to extract only the good, or bad for that matter, and formulate an argument that one wishes to put forth, which is what the majority here do, particularly those that support Whaley, but the reality is that we are one season away from setting an NFL ongoing record for playoff futility and we've heard the same nonsense from the same people, Brandon, Whaley, now Ryan, for years.

 

Try as people might, there really is no defense. The only option for us as fans is whether or not to patronize the team with our money. I see no moral side in that, but consider, if people choose to do so to the extent that the team is profitable, then any incentive to win, now or ever, is entirely removed from the equation. That much is indisputable. Put another way, if the team is just as profitable, or close to it, when it wins as when it loses, then if you're the owner, or the president or GM for that matter, and you want to have a "who cares" attitude, what's to prevent it?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

They were when the team was for sale. Since then it feels like business as usual.

 

The other drive could have been the imminent dismantling of the front 4 due to the cap. But that became irrelevant last season.

Edited May 23, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood

[26CornerBlitz]

 

You missed the point entirely.

 

That is a large part of the point that I made earlier.

 

26 misses the fact that the same people that made those decisions are the ones that DRASTICALLY overpaid for Mario which was obvious from the beginning, gave Fitzpatrick that enormous and ridiculous contract, Traded an additional 1st-rounder and 4th for Watkins, who besides not even being able to stay healthy isn't even among the top-2 possibly the top-3 WRs in his own draft class, certainly not nearly enough to warrant that trade, reached for role-player Spiller, reached massively for Manuel, and now this year with Lawson.

 

It's nice to extract only the good, or bad for that matter, and formulate an argument that one wishes to put forth, which is what the majority here do, particularly those that support Whaley, but the reality is that we are one season away from setting an NFL ongoing record for playoff futility and we've heard the same nonsense from the same people, Brandon, Whaley, now Ryan, for years.

 

Try as people might, there really is no defense. The only option for us as fans is whether or not to patronize the team with our money. I see no moral side in that, but consider, if people choose to do so to the extent that the team is profitable, then any incentive to win, now or ever, is entirely removed from the equation. That much is indisputable. Put another way, if the team is just as profitable, or close to it, when it wins as when it loses, then if you're the owner, or the president or GM for that matter, and you want to have a "who cares" attitude, what's to prevent it?

 

You fail to see that there has been a transition in the pro and college personnel departments since Buddy Nix was the GM with Whaley, Monos, and Fisher calling the shots. What happened under Buddy with Spiller, Fitz, Mario, EJ, and other player acquisitions is one regime ago from an ownership and football department perspective.

 

I'm not sure why you're still a fan if you have such moral outrage and feel like you're being cheated out of something when every NFL franchise is profitable because of the enormous scale of the revenues that come into league coffers. For all of the complaining you do, you have a choice.

[FireChan]

This thread is embarrassing for many reasons. Its a typical TBD, semantics based, circle jerk with a side of Mongolian cluster f@#$ as the topic has been framed so poorly.

 

The organization is not in win now mode. No matter what a coach or the players may say in an interview, teams with question marks at QB are not in win now mode. If you want to see win now mode, look at Denver since acquiring Manning. They were all over free agency, loading up for a 2 or 3 year run. Talib, Dumervil, Welker, Vernon Davis, Sanders, Ward. Some of those moves were flops, but they went for it with big money short term deals to win while Manning could still play.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/4/9/5596570/broncos-free-agency-grades-2014

 

Basically sitting out free agency and extending your own drafted and developed talent is not win now. Replacing your free agents with draft picks is not win now. Its a thoughtful and sustainable approach to managing a franchise.

 

Every coach and player will talk about win now since that's their only goal. Theirs is a short term view regardless of circumstance. Win now is reflected in the actions of decision makers. Unless your coach is GM, its really not up to them. Rex, Rob, and a dozen guy named Williams can talk about winning now, or all in, or any other catch phrase but you only need to pay attention to what the front office is doing to answer that question.

The FA feeding frenzy of pre-2015 more than resembles Denver's moves.

[YoloinOhio]

I always thought "win-now" mode was when a team felt like they had a certain window where they felt they could make a SB run based on the team currently constructed. Typically this would include a very good, playoff worthy franchise QB who either had a few years left age-wise or one who was still on his rookie deal so the team is trying to stack high priced talent around him while they still can. So they do everything with that short term goal in mind. Broncos of the last few years come to mind.

 

I don't know when the Bills have had that type of team in recent memory. When I hear people say in recent years that this team is built to "win now" I'm not sure I see it. Maybe it will look that way if Taylor continues to move forward. But I don't see that same "window" of wanting to focus on just the short term, because most of the core players here are young. I think the so -called "window" is created by the fans looking for the drought to end, hence they must "win now."

Edited May 23, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[BillsVet]

Do you think Hughes, Dareus, Glenn, and possibly Gilmore/Taylor all get signed under the ownership of Ralph? If you don't see any tangible difference, it's simply because your eyes are closed.

 

No. Most of them would have been traded just like Peters was for draft picks.

 

That's why Dick Jauron wasn't absolutely horrible because he managed to be mediocre with far less spending. Now, the Bills are mediocre despite being among the league's big spenders.

[Mikie2times]

"Win Now" is almost like Draft a QB and let him develop (the progression fallacy). Look at the list of starting QB's, how many rode the pine for 2-3 years before being anointed a starter and performed top 15 for the team that provided him time to develop? Further, non year one starters showing very little only to all of a sudden "get it". I have never saw any statistical analysis that shows time turns water into wine to the extent most would have you believe. It tends to make the best better, but it's not very common for the average to become top 15 and certainly not for the team that drafted them. It's fools gold that's been sold on this site by posters and media for countless years. Same thing with draft day trade value arguments. "We got our guy in the first", yes, you might have got your guy, but most statistical data indicates the odds of your guy being "the guy" are not much greater than "the guy" being drafted a round later (of course position plays a role).

 

I guess the overriding theme I'm getting at is like "Win Now" people throw around theories and opinions based on preconceived notions that have no basis. No fundamental proof. Just things that one would expect, but often expectations and reality have a lot of distance. Challenging this type of thinking is what led to the revolution in baseball and I expect Cleveland will see similar benefits, so long as they allow the process enough time.

Edited May 23, 2016 by KzooMike

[3rdand12]

They were in "win now" mode last season with all that spending they did. I think that is obvious. The mentality was continue great play on defense while getting the offense to do just enough with some more offensive pieces in place.

 

Rex obviously !@#$ed that up.

 

Now I'm not sure what mode they are in. "Rebuild the defense the Rex Ryan way and hope it pays off" mode??

 

On paper it looks like a 7 win team or so. Will be interesting to see where they go from there if that happens.

I also think last year and all the monied acquisitions could be viewed as Win Now. But they were no sure on the QB, so it was mixed message.

 

But i disagree with the potential in the W/L column this year. Based upon two years into the new program mostly

[Deranged Rhino]

I also think last year and all the monied acquisitions could be viewed as Win Now. But they were no sure on the QB, so it was mixed message.

 

 

I'm not sure if the influx in cash was a "win now" move or simply just a move add talent (and, by extension, put the money into the roster that had been lacking from Ralph's tenure). Like you say, it's hard to say they were in win now mode (which I still think is a stupid mode to be in as a rule) when they were splitting starting QB reps between three guys and implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball.

 

That said, I'm certain they all expected to win more than 8 games and it was a disappointing season in the end.

[3rdand12]

 

I'm not sure if the influx in cash was a "win now" move or simply just a move add talent (and, by extension, put the money into the roster that had been lacking from Ralph's tenure). Like you say, it's hard to say they were in win now mode (which I still think is a stupid mode to be in as a rule) when they were splitting starting QB reps between three guys and implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball.

 

That said, I'm certain they all expected to win more than 8 games and it was a disappointing season in the end.

agree with the win now descriptor. I just mentioned the influx of talent via FA as a cue.

But all those players the paid , are still on the team and second year is as Bill. Keep in mind Bills spent generously on Coaches. I think someone besides us is not very pleased with the ROI ?

: )

[GunnerBill]

They were in "win now" mode last season with all that spending they did. I think that is obvious. The mentality was continue great play on defense while getting the offense to do just enough with some more offensive pieces in place.

 

Rex obviously !@#$ed that up.

 

Now I'm not sure what mode they are in. "Rebuild the defense the Rex Ryan way and hope it pays off" mode??

 

On paper it looks like a 7 win team or so. Will be interesting to see where they go from there if that happens.

 

I see it about the same as this. 2015 was supposed to be "win now". Had the D played anywhere close to what it had the year before it would have been a play-off year.

 

Now to me we are in rebuild mode on the defensive side of the ball. If it all clicks the play-offs are possible.... but it feels to me like a team set up to go just shy of .500. It has been a long time since a Rex Ryan team won 3 in a row.

[BarleyNY]

I always thought "win-now" mode was when a team felt like they had a certain window where they felt they could make a SB run based on the team currently constructed. Typically this would include a very good, playoff worthy franchise QB who either had a few years left age-wise or one who was still on his rookie deal so the team is trying to stack high priced talent around him while they still can. So they do everything with that short term goal in mind. Broncos of the last few years come to mind.

I don't know when the Bills have had that type of team in recent memory. When I hear people say in recent years that this team is built to "win now" I'm not sure I see it. Maybe it will look that way if Taylor continues to move forward. But I don't see that same "window" of wanting to focus on just the short term, because most of the core players here are young. I think the so -called "window" is created by the fans looking for the drought to end, hence they must "win now."

I agree with all of what you said above. Any "win now" pressure at this point is strictly "hot seat" pressure for the Whaley, Rex and other coaches and FO personnel. I don't see their seats as hot at the moment, but they're probably a little warm. As for the team, it isn't changing much in the coming seasons except via draft and small contract FAs. OTC summed it up when discussing Glenn's deal:

 

"This contract moves the Bills into 3rd place in the Commitment Index hierarchy, which means that the team has the third least amount of future salary cap spending capacity. Similarly, the team ranks 5th in 2017 True Cap Space commitments. An extension for Stephon Gilmore or Tyrod Taylor would likely push the Bills to the top position in Commitment Index. None of this means that the Bills will necessarily be in a bad salary cap position over the next few years, but due to the true cap commitments made to the contractual core of Dareus, Glenn, Clay, McCoy, and Hughes, the team will have limited flexibility to add to or change the roster without moving sideways by losing talent currently on the roster."

 

http://overthecap.com/cordy-glenn-contract-analytics/

Edited May 24, 2016 by BarleyNY

[SoFFacet]

I feel like this is said every season by the fans and media about the Bills and other teams, but what does it even mean, and is it true? Does it mean that they are all in for the short term, thinking they are just a piece or two away from the playoffs? Does it mean the GM and HC are fired after the season if they don't make the playoffs and/or have a winning season?

 

I think it's possible they are thinking they are all in for this year with not as much focus on the long term. Specifically because of the playoff drought. But I think it's just as possible they are more focused on long-term building of the team. Whaley just signed an extension, it's only the coach's 2nd year, and their core players at QB, WR, LT, CB, DT, LB and DE are very young. I never bought that they were in "win-now" mode the last few years simply because it wasn't realistic. They didn't have the most important position, QB. I still think it's kind of a minor rebuild with a long term vision (nothing like the Browns are doing, but a smaller scale version of that -- considering the Bills were a better team to start off), beginning last year.

 

Without being a fly on the wall at OBD I'm just guessing, but not sure it's a "playoffs or everyone is gone" atmosphere or culture from what I can tell. It seems like the fans as a whole want it that way, I just don't know if that is indeed the case.

 

Thoughts?

 

"Win now mode" is a garbage media narrative that was thrust upon the Bills after they traded their 2015 1st round pick. Its a gross oversimplification that willfully ignores that over the course of an entire career, player A could perfectly well be contribute more over the long term than players B and C combined.

 

Last season was must win season. This year, not so much. This seems like yr. 1 of a defensive rebuild. Three potential new starters on d(rookies), doesn't sound like win now to me.

 

Fairly well put. Last year they hoped to build on a 9-7 team, and the FAs they brought in helped increase their chances of making the playoffs. Even so, their actions did not have a significant adverse effect on their chances in subsequent seasons, so calling it a "win now" season would still be a stretch. But the fact is that almost all coaching changes, particularly ones that completely change the defensive scheme, require transitional years, and we saw why last year. Now we are in year 2 of a coach's tenure, with several rookies being heavily counted upon on defense, and a "prove it" QB. None of those are traits of an immediate contender, but they still have decent chances of getting the wild card. Some people don't understand that the outcomes of games are just probabilistic results, and all that a GM can do is increase a team's chances.

 

That's an interesting take, but it disagrees with the popular notion that both Whaley & Ryan are gone after the season if they don't make the playoffs. I don't know what to believe on that since nothing has officially/formally been announced as such, and frankly, if Pegula couldn't see the problems coming in as the fan that he said he was, I have zero confidence that he'll see it at all any other time. It's been obviously for 15 years what the core problems are and all he did was dig in on them. I'll predict 5-11 again and that both Whaley & Ryan will both still be here next season.

 

Let's assume that this was not a win-now year then, would that alter the take on the Draft then? Not necessarily by you, generally speaking.

 

That's just a garbage notion that's only ever been "popular" with a certain small, loud internet peanut gallery. There is no evidence to indicate that their seats are even lukewarm.

 

This thread is embarrassing for many reasons. Its a typical TBD, semantics based, circle jerk with a side of Mongolian cluster f@#$ as the topic has been framed so poorly.

 

The organization is not in win now mode. No matter what a coach or the players may say in an interview, teams with question marks at QB are not in win now mode. If you want to see win now mode, look at Denver since acquiring Manning. They were all over free agency, loading up for a 2 or 3 year run. Talib, Dumervil, Welker, Vernon Davis, Sanders, Ward. Some of those moves were flops, but they went for it with big money short term deals to win while Manning could still play.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/4/9/5596570/broncos-free-agency-grades-2014

 

Basically sitting out free agency and extending your own drafted and developed talent is not win now. Replacing your free agents with draft picks is not win now. Its a thoughtful and sustainable approach to managing a franchise.

 

Every coach and player will talk about win now since that's their only goal. Theirs is a short term view regardless of circumstance. Win now is reflected in the actions of decision makers. Unless your coach is GM, its really not up to them. Rex, Rob, and a dozen guy named Williams can talk about winning now, or all in, or any other catch phrase but you only need to pay attention to what the front office is doing to answer that question.

 

Truth.

Edited May 24, 2016 by SoFFacet

[Ronin]

 

You fail to see that there has been a transition in the pro and college personnel departments since Buddy Nix was the GM with Whaley, Monos, and Fisher calling the shots. What happened under Buddy with Spiller, Fitz, Mario, EJ, and other player acquisitions is one regime ago from an ownership and football department perspective.

 

I'm not sure why you're still a fan if you have such moral outrage and feel like you're being cheated out of something when every NFL franchise is profitable because of the enormous scale of the revenues that come into league coffers. For all of the complaining you do, you have a choice.

 

Look CB, I'm not saying this to flame or antagonize, but you really need to learn how to read.

 

I don't have any moral outrage, what did I say, I said, literally, "I see no moral side," which means that I'm not morally outraged. Ergo, no sense in replying to a false charge. It comes down, again, as I said clearly, to a business decision for both owner and fan. Would I pay to see the Browns if I were a Browns fan? No. I'd watch for free and where I didn't have to drop $400 for my wife and I or a friend to go see the game, eat, park, and have to waste time getting out of the stadium afterwards. Any such choice rests with each person.

 

I also don't need you challenging my fan status. I slept out overnight in the sub-freezing cold in front of Marine-Midland bank back in the day, OUTSIDE, literally, in 20-degrees, just waiting to get 2 or 4 tix, the limit, to playoff games when we were in them in the early '90s. So enough of this nonsense. No marginal fan would do that.

 

Otherwise we disagree, I see practical little difference if any, in the way that the personnel is handled other than to say that Whaley's a whole helluva lot more risk prone with the results of those risks really not panning out in any positive way. (Manuel (BUST), Watkins (massively overrated because he can't stay healthy and isn't even the best in class), now Lawson)

 

As well, and since you've forgotten, that listing from FO, or whereever it was from, that ranked our drafts, Whaley has the worst rankings of anyone during that time stretch. Worse than Levy, Nix, Donahoe, and even when Brandon was doing it.

 

There are facts, your argument is largely opinion based with little to back it up other than implying that you're a real fan as opposed to others who apparently are not.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Look CB, I'm not saying this to flame or antagonize, but you really need to learn how to read.

 

I don't have any moral outrage, what did I say, I said, literally, "I see no moral side," which means that I'm not morally outraged. Ergo, no sense in replying to a false charge. It comes down, again, as I said clearly, to a business decision for both owner and fan. Would I pay to see the Browns if I were a Browns fan? No. I'd watch for free and where I didn't have to drop $400 for my wife and I or a friend to go see the game, eat, park, and have to waste time getting out of the stadium afterwards. Any such choice rests with each person.

 

I also don't need you challenging my fan status. I slept out overnight in the sub-freezing cold in front of Marine-Midland bank back in the day, OUTSIDE, literally, in 20-degrees, just waiting to get 2 or 4 tix, the limit, to playoff games when we were in them in the early '90s. So enough of this nonsense. No marginal fan would do that.

 

Otherwise we disagree, I see practical little difference if any, in the way that the personnel is handled other than to say that Whaley's a whole helluva lot more risk prone with the results of those risks really not panning out in any positive way. (Manuel (BUST), Watkins (massively overrated because he can't stay healthy and isn't even the best in class), now Lawson)

 

As well, and since you've forgotten, that listing from FO, or whereever it was from, that ranked our drafts, Whaley has the worst rankings of anyone during that time stretch. Worse than Levy, Nix, Donahoe, and even when Brandon was doing it.

 

There are facts, your argument is largely opinion based with little to back it up other than implying that you're a real fan as opposed to others who apparently are not.

 

My bad on the misinterpretation. No one challenged your fandom, I simply posted that you have a choice to not follow or patronize the team if you're that upset.

[Ronin]

I always thought "win-now" mode was when a team felt like they had a certain window where they felt they could make a SB run based on the team currently constructed. Typically this would include a very good, playoff worthy franchise QB who either had a few years left age-wise or one who was still on his rookie deal so the team is trying to stack high priced talent around him while they still can. So they do everything with that short term goal in mind. Broncos of the last few years come to mind.

 

I don't know when the Bills have had that type of team in recent memory. When I hear people say in recent years that this team is built to "win now" I'm not sure I see it. Maybe it will look that way if Taylor continues to move forward. But I don't see that same "window" of wanting to focus on just the short term, because most of the core players here are young. I think the so -called "window" is created by the fans looking for the drought to end, hence they must "win now."

 

What people seem to forget is the promises that were made last year, by Ryan, with Whaley fully backing him, Brandon too, even Kelly & Co., about how that (2015) was our year. We've seen the results.

 

Levy came on and stated boldly that the future is now. He promised a winning/playoff season prior to announcing a rebuild after his inaugural season.

 

We've had a revolving door of "win-now" seasons as stated by the team's & organization's leaders, but none have materialized, and in places such as this excuses are made for them when there are no excuses, or when there shouldn't be anyway.

 

We are in precisely that mode now. When the entire team was on red-alert last off/pre-season to the extent when they rally all of the name players from the '90s era heyday teams, then that's hardly not "win-now" and everyone was expecting that and it was promised.

 

Here's the thing, when the team swings-and-misses like that, apart from leaving good people like Kelly & Co. with egg on their face, it suggests something. In this case, what it suggests is that those making the promises really don't know wtf they're doing which is something that many of us have known for a while. The rest only catch on after changes are made and the new boss becomes the rallying point with the old ones (Donahoe, Nix, Jauron, Gailey, etc.) all being treated like dunces with the same people doing the heralding either ignoring or apparently failing to realize that those names replaces the name(s) that they're not supporting at a prior time. That's the emotional element to the game from a fan perspective. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, again, no moral high or low ground here, but facts are facts, and just as people ignored facts back then and have and do in an ongoing basis until such a time as it becomes emotionally expedient for them not to do so, so too the same is going on amongst the fanbase today and always will.

 

Having said that, the reality is that this crew, particularly Brandon, Whaley, and Ryan, are clueless and have a track record of all but disaster in tow like a train on a royal wedding gown. The only one with some proven success is Ryan, but none of that has been in the last five seasons where his D's have all ranked average or well-below average in scoring, and his only success has essentially been on a team with bookoo talent led by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed anchoring the middle of his Ds.

 

Well this just in, we don't have Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, we have the antithesis. We have a pair of 2-down ILBs in the middle in Ragland and Brown, clones of one another and neither of whom can cover the pass well, and what, we may not even know yet at SS/FS but probably Aaron Williams and Corey Graham, also two players not excelling in coverage, and none of whom even come close to sniffing the jocks of Lewis or Reed in terms of intangibles and leadership. Instead, the center of our D from immediately behind the line to the end zone has pass-coverage as a weakness.

 

Either way, Ryan doesn't have Lewis (13-time Pro Bowler & 7-time All-Pro) and Reed (9-time Pro Bowler & 5-time All-Pro) here, which is one enormous missing ingredient given that both were like on-field coaches and together were arguably the best MLB/FS tandem in the history of the NFL. Among the four players, one being an unproven rookie, there is one Pro-Bowl and 0 All-Pros among them and that PB was 5 seasons ago on a different team entirely.

 

File under it ain't happening.

They were in "win now" mode last season with all that spending they did. I think that is obvious. The mentality was continue great play on defense while getting the offense to do just enough with some more offensive pieces in place.

 

Rex obviously !@#$ed that up.

 

Now I'm not sure what mode they are in. "Rebuild the defense the Rex Ryan way and hope it pays off" mode??

 

On paper it looks like a 7 win team or so. Will be interesting to see where they go from there if that happens.

 

They're in the same mode that the trustees of this team have been in for the better part of 20 years now, I'm not sure that even they know. They pretend that this draft made all the difference, but seriuosly, when was the last time that rookies in a draft propelled a team from .500 to anything relevant without either other influences. It's rhetorical, just sayin', rookies typically don't make that kind of impact, and the one that we were expecting the biggest impact from, much as we expected it from Spiller and Watkins in their rookie seasons, won't even be on the field for a significant part of the early season.

 

And you're right, they obviously were in win-now mode last season, anyone suggesting otherwise is in denial.

I agree with all of what you said above. Any "win now" pressure at this point is strictly "hot seat" pressure for the Whaley, Rex and other coaches and FO personnel. I don't see their seats as hot at the moment, but they're probably a little warm. As for the team, it isn't changing much in the coming seasons except via draft and small contract FAs. OTC summed it up when discussing Glenn's deal:

 

This is Whaley's 4th season as GM. Suppose we finish less than .500 now, why should he be kept on with records of 6-10, 9-7, 8-8, and a losing season (again, assuming that it is), and 23-25 to date otherwise trending downward, which clearly shows regression, not improvement?

 

Again, if he were the GM of the Raiders, Browns, or another team with that record I cannot imagine one single person wishing he'd come here to be our GM much less not making fun of him.

Edited May 24, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[Ronin]

Fairly well put. Last year they hoped to build on a 9-7 team, and the FAs they brought in helped increase their chances of making the playoffs.

 

That's just a garbage notion that's only ever been "popular" with a certain small, loud internet peanut gallery. There is no evidence to indicate that their seats are even lukewarm.

 

They promised playoffs. They dusted off Kelly & Co. from mothballs and paraded everyone around, promised "a bully," absolutely no one involved with the team took an alternate position.

 

If that's not win now I have no idea what is.

 

I agree with you that it's a "garbage notion," although I'd phrase it differently, but nonetheless, it's a pervasive media notion. I've asked numerous people with ties to the org where it came from and the best I can get is that "behind closed doors" etc., Pegula has made it clear to both Whaley & Ryan that it's playoffs "or else."

 

I'm in agreement with you, I don't see the evidence and we know what rumors in Buffalo are worth. I also do not understand, apart from the nonsensical "same time frame" notion, the reasoning behind giving Whaley a 3-year extension that he hasn't earned.

 

Why not put TT on the same time-frame too then for example. Just sayin'.

 

Either way, it is a widespread notion from fans to regional to national media, that they're gone if they don't at least post a winning season. Guess we'll find out, but like you, I see no basis for it.

 

My bad on the misinterpretation. No one challenged your fandom, I simply posted that you have a choice to not follow or patronize the team if you're that upset.

 

Thanks!!

 

Upset? Not sure I'd say "upset," it is what it is. But I guess I don't like to take a turnip and call it a Sirloin steak.

 

I want a winning team as much as everyone, but as I view it, I'm not sure we're going to get one as long as the team gets what it wants, fannies in the seats and frankly, no reason to care. Instead it seems to me that we'll be treated to further ongoing nepotism as we're now seeing with Pegula now chumming up to Brandon on down, etc.

 

If I had to choose words I'd say frustrating, perhaps terminally so realizing that since there are enough fans content to pay top dollar for mediocrity, that those of us that are not are stuck. Hell, I'd even settle for consistent enjoyable football, but we can't even play solid D for two straight seasons for example. IOW, I'll take 6-10 if we're in 14 of those games down to the wire. That means that maybe the next season we'll win 11 of them if things slide our way. But we're not organized/directed (coached) well, so that's unlikely to happen.

 

Either way, the NFL is a business, owning a team is a business decision, if the business model makes almost as much when losing as it does when winning, well, I'm not sure I see much hope for true change when the decisions are clearly being made in the interests of the formerly mentioned nepotism.

 

Again, Whaley seems to have 9 lives in an era where most GMs are lucky to have 2 with most having 1.

Edited May 24, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[Deranged Rhino]

Ok, I guess if the term "win now" mode means in the playoffs, then yes, I certainly think they thought they should be a playoff team in 2015.

 

 

I expected the playoffs at the start of last year, as I'm sure everyone in the Bills' organization did. But then again, I think every team in the NFL operates expecting to win. That's the mindset these people have, pro athletes and front office executives are some of the most competitive people on Earth by their very nature. Competitive people expect to win every time they compete, and some aren't afraid to tell you that.

 

As Bills fans we've seen both types of coaches/personalities from "It's hard to win in the NFL" to "We're going". Both talking points rankle fans in different ways, but personally if I had to choose I'd rather have my team professing "they're going" (even if they don't) than to lower expectations by saying "it's hard to win".

 

In the end, both positions are just empty words. Just like the term "win now". It's meaningless in reality. Every team wants to win. Most every team expects to win. But when the season is over there are 31 losers and only 1 winner.