BaaadThingsMan Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 Its win now every year. Evaluate your needs. Plan your attack. Acquire your solutions. Evaluate your acquisitions. Adjust accordingly. Build chemistry. Earn trust. Win games. Same plan every year, nobody plans to lose. Now, execution is something else entirely.
Augie Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 You only go into Win Now mode if you think you have a legit shot at a Super Bowl trophy. Sacrificing the future to simply make the playoffs is silly and means more missed playoffs down the road. Keep building a team, Please.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 I feel like this is said every season by the fans and media about the Bills and other teams, but what does it even mean, and is it true? Does it mean that they are all in for the short term, thinking they are just a piece or two away from the playoffs? Does it mean the GM and HC are fired after the season if they don't make the playoffs and/or have a winning season? I think it's possible they are thinking they are all in for this year with not as much focus on the long term. Specifically because of the playoff drought. But I think it's just as possible they are more focused on long-term building of the team. Whaley just signed an extension, it's only the coach's 2nd year, and their core players at QB, WR, LT, CB, DT, LB and DE are very young. I never bought that they were in "win-now" mode the last few years simply because it wasn't realistic. They didn't have the most important position, QB. I still think it's kind of a minor rebuild with a long term vision (nothing like the Browns are doing, but a smaller scale version of that -- considering the Bills were a better team to start off), beginning last year. Without being a fly on the wall at OBD I'm just guessing, but not sure it's a "playoffs or everyone is gone" atmosphere or culture from what I can tell. It seems like the fans as a whole want it that way, I just don't know if that is indeed the case. Thoughts? every year they are in win now mode and is why we keep coming up short because we haven't truly rebuilt.
mannc Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 The claim no other team would offer him that kind of contract is not based on anything but your opinion.That's true, just like my opinion that the Bills needlessly gave away two fourth round picks to move up for Ragland. I can't prove he would have been there at 49, but the Bills can't prove he wouldn't have been, either. And I'm not aware of any other backs McCoy's age with similar production who scored a contract that lucrative, are you?
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 They sure want everyone to think they are... But how could they be? Drafting injured players... Settling for a glorified game-manager at QB.... Refusing to acquire a big-threat @ WR.... Hiring Rob Ryan!.... These are just a few of the potential disasters waiting to undermine any chance of us winning the AFCE. -Which, by the way, is what we should be focusing on! Can you honestlly say that this team is being engineered to crush Massacheatsus? Your response may be the answer to the question posed in this thread. RogueTank
thurst44 Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 "Middling star" is being kind given McCoy's production the past two seasons, especially when you look at his YPC. He is on the downslope of a good career. There is not another team in the league that would have given him the contract Whaley did last year. And he's not a great person either, FWIW. First off, the premise is they were "middling" when you signed them, and by that metric, he was a 26 year old coming off a bad season, and that season average was still equal to Matt Forte's career YPC -- you know, the three year older running back that many analysts are praising the Jets for signing. For the record, I know fantasy is not real football, but I took McCoy first in two leagues in 2014 and was constantly cursing his name, but I was still thrilled when the Bills got him and would have still said he was an elite back after that season whether the Bills took him or not. Also, players have off seasons without being "in decline" -- Adrian Peterson dropped way off in 2013 (worse totals than Shady in '14), was hurt most of 2014 and came back to do pretty well (and in all of these seasons he was older than McCoy is now).
#34fan Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 I saw Rex in "win now" mode exactly twice. -Both games against the Jets last year... He was so intense, so focused, that the mere THOUGHT of losing was incomprehensible... He would have parted with a lung before giving up either of those games... The difference is that guys like Carroll, and Bellichick operate this way ALL THE TIME... They don't just talk about it, they COACH IT... Their rosters armed with standard bearers who are willing to enforce it.. Who are our standard-bearers? -Who's bringing the fire? I know Rex will rally the troops for at least TWO games this season... It's the other 14 I'm concerned about.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 Sacrificing future resources for immediate results. Trading up (exchanging multiple future picks for one pick) and spending big in free agency to the point that it limits future spending the year(s) after are great examples. is why we end up 8-8 too often The good thing about "Win Now" mode is it can be postponed till the next year
YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2016 Author Posted May 21, 2016 every year they are in win now mode and is why we keep coming up short because we haven't truly rebuilt. the dreaded "purgatory" ?
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 the dreaded "purgatory" ? yep I think TT is adequate but until we get true franchise QB, this is where we will be.
thurst44 Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 That's true, just like my opinion that the Bills needlessly gave away two fourth round picks to move up for Ragland. I can't prove he would have been there at 49, but the Bills can't prove he wouldn't have been, either. And I'm not aware of any other backs McCoy's age with similar production who scored a contract that lucrative, are you? Jonathan Stewart was just a year younger and far less accomplished when he signed 5-years for just 4 million less. Adrian Peterson was almost exactly the same age, and received 7 years and 96 million, 2 more years at about 5-6m more a year. I'd say he's somewhere between those two in talent and stature, and much closer to AP.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Are you telling me that you're backing it up with just other folks' opinions? And they invalidate other opinions? What. The opinions of GMs, coaches and players in the NFL -- when discussing a player's perceived value within the league -- are much more relevant than the opinion of a fan. And I'm not aware of any other backs McCoy's age with similar production who scored a contract that lucrative, are you? Sure, just look at the contracts around the league. AP (older) got a bigger deal. Stewart's deal (same age when he signed) and Doug Martin(same age) are all getting paid in the same range as McCoy and he's better than both. Edited May 21, 2016 by Deranged Rhino
thurst44 Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) yep I think TT is adequate but until we get true franchise QB, this is where we will be. The true "franchise qb" is pretty damn elusive and has different meanings to different people. TT had an above-average year by most metrics in his first year in the league, so I'd say he has the potential to be a franchise QB at this point, but you can look at Foles or Kaepernick or RGIII or Sam Bradford or a bevy of Dolphins QBs to see the many ways that potential can go south, so I can understand the wariness -- it's smart -- but don't see how he has zero franchise QB (edited) potential after last year, between the running success and the accuracy on long throws. Do you feel he has no chance of being better than say a Joe Flacco or an Eli Manning? If so, why not? The opinions of GMs, coaches and players in the NFL -- when discussing a player's perceived value within the league -- are much more relevant than the opinion of a fan. Sure, just look at the contracts around the league. AP (older) got a bigger deal. Stewart's deal (same age when he signed) and Doug Martin(same age) are all getting paid in the same range as McCoy and he's better than both. Ha, you beat me to it. Edited May 21, 2016 by thurst44
mannc Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 Jonathan Stewart was just a year younger and far less accomplished when he signed 5-years for just 4 million less. Adrian Peterson was almost exactly the same age, and received 7 years and 96 million, 2 more years at about 5-6m more a year. I'd say he's somewhere between those two in talent and stature, and much closer to AP. McCoy is not even in the same discussion with AP. Please. I'm not at all sure Shady is better than Jonathan Stewart, who is a very different kind of back than McCoy.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 The true "franchise qb" is pretty damn elusive and has different meanings to different people. TT had an above-average year by most metrics in his first year in the league, so I'd say he has the potential to be a franchise QB at this point, but you can look at Foles or Kaepernick or RGIII or Sam Bradford or a bevy of Dolphins QBs to see the many ways that potential can go south, so I can understand the wariness -- it's smart -- but don't see how he has zero franchise QB (edited) potential after last year, between the running success and the accuracy on long throws. Do you feel he has no chance of being better than say a Joe Flacco or an Eli Manning? If so, why not? Until/if he learns the short game he will be a RB with a big arm, Something the Ryans love; Cunninham,Vick, Geno, and now TT.
mannc Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 The opinions of GMs, coaches and players in the NFL -- when discussing a player's perceived value within the league -- are much more relevant than the opinion of a fan. Sure, just look at the contracts around the league. AP (older) got a bigger deal. Stewart's deal (same age when he signed) and Doug Martin(same age) are all getting paid in the same range as McCoy and he's better than both. McCoy signed for significantly more money than Stewart and Martin was a far better back than McCoy last year.
thurst44 Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 Until/if he learns the short game he will be a RB with a big arm, Something the Ryans love; Cunninham,Vick, Geno, and now TT. Seriously, you're lumping him in with Geno? Ok. that's twisting your words a bit . Good QBs tend to get better as they play more NFL games, so I stick by my argument that nothing says he hasn't shown POTENTIAL for being a franchise QB. Aaron Rodgers' 2008 stats aren't significantly better than Tyrod Taylor's. I'm not saying he's Aaron Rodgers, and Rodgers had higher expectations going in, but it's just one example of how franchise QBs aren't that out of the box (and AR is the most recent example I could think for a QB who was on the bench for a few years before starting).
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 McCoy is not even in the same discussion with AP. Please. I'm not at all sure Shady is better than Jonathan Stewart, who is a very different kind of back than McCoy. AP is at the top of the heap, no doubt. He's also 31. McCoy is 27, still in his physical prime, and is better than Stewart and Martin by pretty much any metric including general consensus within the league I'd imagine. McCoy signed for significantly more money than Stewart and Martin was a far better back than McCoy last year. Now you're changing your argument. You said no one got paid like McCoy did -- which just isn't true. We can debate back and forth who is the better back between Martin, Stewart and Shady (that's legit but I don't think it's as clear cut as you're making it) but the point is that his contract isn't really that insane. It's high pay through what the Bills hope will be his best remaining years ('15, '16, '17 -- during which McCoy will be 27, 28 and 29 years old) and then becomes pretty easy for them to walk away from.
GunnerBill Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 This is the 3rd year of "Win Now" mode. You just don't realize it because they haven't been winning. I think it is only the 2nd in truth. I think the trajectory through the 2 Marrone years was pretty much exactly what they expected with one major difference. EJ was supposed to take a step. It was because he hadnt and they had to go to a vet bottom end starter / top end backup type who they knew didnt have long (even if they didn't know he was about to retire) that made the back end of 2014 feel a bit "win now" because they probably suspected they were starting again at the Quarterback position.
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