The Johnson Thread

[sodbuster]

 

Modi, Merkel, Fox, Abe, hell even the Pope might have gotten him off the hook...it was a total softball question. You just name someone and say, "They faced some tough issues and have been strong in the face of adversity." Done. It was not a "gotcha" question.

 

 

So what you're saying is that in spite of the fact that we all complain about politicians giving hollow answers and dancing around questions, that's actually what we want? He had mentioned other foreign leaders in earlier answers, so it isn't like he doesn't know any.

[B-Man]

 

Did you read what I typed?

 

 

 

Obviously.

 

since it was addressed in my response.

 

It wasn't a criticism of you, but a statement that (supposedly) "smarter" presidents are certainly no better when all their solutions are wrong

 

(as you typed)

 

.

[Nanker]

Iraq, Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Arab Spring, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, ISIL, IS. All B.O. foreign policy disasters.

[grinreaper]

Iraq, Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Arab Spring, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, ISIL, IS. All B.O. foreign policy disasters.

In his defense, he really knows how to throw a beer summit.

[Nanker]

In his defense, he really knows how to throw a beer summit.

Yep. He's without peer when it comes to that. Can't remember a single beer summit at the White House before he showed up.

[B-Man]

Back to the thread......................

 

 

 

GARY JOHNSON MAKES HIS CASE.

 

 

Johnson’s op-ed is mostly positive, focusing mainly on his policy ideas while taking just a couple specialized shots at his opponents Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Johnson, who didn’t poll high enough to make the debate stage Monday night, says that his Libertarian Party ticket is the only one that offers Americans “a chance to find common ground.”

 

Johnson and his running mate, Bill Weld, suggested they are fiscal conservatives but social liberals. Johnson vetoed more than 750 bills as governor of New Mexico, and said he believes “government does too much and costs too much.” He also scolded the treatment of black Americans by police officers and advocated for criminal justice reform.

 

“What would government be like in a Johnson administration?” he asked. “First, we would begin the conversation about the size of government by submitting a real balanced budget. Every government program would have to justify its expenditures, every year.”

 

He added: “Cuts of up to 20 percent or more would be on the table for all programs, including military spending. Changes to Social Security and Medicare must also be considered.”

 

Johnson called Trump’s immigration proposals “ludicrous,” and implied that a Libertarian president wouldn’t deport “noncriminal undocumented immigrants” or build a wall. He also knocked Clinton on foreign policy for her “muddled mix of intervention, regime change and bombing campaigns.” These, Johnson wrote, created the disasters in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria.

 

 

 

 

Added:

 

EVEN OUR THIRD- AND FOURTH-PARTY CANDIDATES ARE EMBARRASSING THIS YEAR:

 

Jill Stein Attempts To Mock Gary Johnson For Being Unable To Name Any Foreign Leaders, Lists Names Of People Who Aren’t Foreign Leaders.

 

 

 

.

Edited September 29, 2016 by B-Man

[Magox]

Not at all. I just don't buy in to the belief that Obama is exceptionally smart. What has he ever done, written, said, accomplished that makes you think he's smart? His foreign policy is a dilettante's disaster. He has a wafer thin understanding of foreign affairs.

 

 

 

I think I have years of comments here on this board consistently pointing out that Obama is an ideologue who is an incompetent manager of implementing his initiatives. I believe I have made it pretty clear that although I believe he is a true believer in what he does and that from his view he can do no wrong, despite reality pointing to a different conclusion.

 

I do believe he is intelligent, I do believe him to be a fantastic orator and one of the best political athletes we have seen in a long time. I also believe that he was successful in pushing the country in the direction he wanted. For that, hat's off. No easy feat.

 

Having said that, I believe that most of his policy prescriptions are wrong, they are ideologically driven, I believe that he'd rather be discussing issues of social injustice and finds foreign policy to be a pesky secondary issue that he'd prefer punt the problems forward to another administration. And that even though he is racially "inclusive" he is intolerant of those that have opposing views, which from my standpoint fails the test of the kind of person that I want to lead the country.

[dpberr]

I'm amazed the Libertarian party couldn't find someone better. He comes across even more goofy if you just listen to him on the radio. I was listening live, flipping through the news channels, when he had the Aleppo moment. That's like Ross Perot not knowing who the Kurds were in 1992.

 

Thinking about it - Ross Perot, as a third party candidate, capturing 19% of the vote in 1992, is akin to the Bills going to four straight Super Bowls. Probably won't be eclipsed.

[snafu]

Iraq, Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Arab Spring, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, ISIL, IS. All B.O. foreign policy disasters.

 

Hey man...he's got a peace prize. Don't forget his peace prize.

[Benjamin Franklin]

So what you're saying is that in spite of the fact that we all complain about politicians giving hollow answers and dancing around questions, that's actually what we want? He had mentioned other foreign leaders in earlier answers, so it isn't like he doesn't know any.

 

You can't possibly be defending Johnson on this so I'll ignore your straw man.

 

If your brain is functioning, you answer the question. Like I said, it was a softball. Giving Trump his due, when asked questions he can't answer, he always comes up with some crap to spew. Trump would have said (Putin!) "I would not answer that. It's not in the USA's interst to play favorites. We are our own model to the world." Or some such bravado to hide that he doesn't know any world leaders. Johnson couldn't even evade well.

 

It was really awful. Trump supporters don't beat up Donald for his stupidity but the Johnson supporters like Magox and me see this for what it was: Terrible. In balance, it's nothing compared to what Trump and Hillary have done but that doesn't cure it.

I'm amazed the Libertarian party couldn't find someone better. He comes across even more goofy if you just listen to him on the radio. I was listening live, flipping through the news channels, when he had the Aleppo moment. That's like Ross Perot not knowing who the Kurds were in 1992.

 

Thinking about it - Ross Perot, as a third party candidate, capturing 19% of the vote in 1992, is akin to the Bills going to four straight Super Bowls. Probably won't be eclipsed.

 

The ticket looks optically appealing: 2 former R governors in D states.

 

One of the Libertarian problems, as someone who once dove in a little, is that like every party, it's got an insider process. And due to its fringe roots (free weed long before anyone with a back ache could get weed), the insiders are wackjobs. It's hard for me as a huge Libertarian sympathizer, to take the leadership seriously, let alone ask others to take the party seriously. And Johnson's gaffes undermine both Libretarian and any third party credibility.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Benjamin Franklin

[TakeYouToTasker]

Johnson is the fourth most terrible candidate running this election cycle, which is why he'll get my vote.

[sodbuster]

 

You can't possibly be defending Johnson on this so I'll ignore your straw man.

 

If your brain is functioning, you answer the question. Like I said, it was a softball. Giving Trump his due, when asked questions he can't answer, he always comes up with some crap to spew. Trump would have said (Putin!) "I would not answer that. It's not in the USA's interst to play favorites. We are our own model to the world." Or some such bravado to hide that he doesn't know any world leaders. Johnson couldn't even evade well.

 

It was really awful. Trump supporters don't beat up Donald for his stupidity but the Johnson supporters like Magox and me see this for what it was: Terrible. In balance, it's nothing compared to what Trump and Hillary have done but that doesn't cure it.

 

 

The ticket looks optically appealing: 2 former R governors in D states.

 

One of the Libertarian problems, as someone who once dove in a little, is that like every party, it's got an insider process. And due to its fringe roots (free weed long before anyone with a back ache could get weed), the insiders are wackjobs. It's hard for me as a huge Libertarian sympathizer, to take the leadership seriously, let alone ask others to take the party seriously. And Johnson's gaffes undermine both Libretarian and any third party credibility.

He obviously does know foreign leaders, he mentioned two of them earlier in the town hall.

 

Is it really a straw man? You said within this answer yourself that you would rather have him evade than take a minute to think about the answer to a question that he probably hasn't thought about before. That was right after you "gave Trump his due" for spewing crap.

 

Would you rather have a thoughtful leader, or an encyclopedic one?

Edited September 29, 2016 by sodbuster

[grinreaper]

Johnson is the fourth most terrible candidate running this election cycle, which is why he'll get my vote.

Can you describe the criteria you used for judging terribleness?

[dpberr]

 

You can't possibly be defending Johnson on this so I'll ignore your straw man.

 

If your brain is functioning, you answer the question. Like I said, it was a softball. Giving Trump his due, when asked questions he can't answer, he always comes up with some crap to spew. Trump would have said (Putin!) "I would not answer that. It's not in the USA's interst to play favorites. We are our own model to the world." Or some such bravado to hide that he doesn't know any world leaders. Johnson couldn't even evade well.

 

It was really awful. Trump supporters don't beat up Donald for his stupidity but the Johnson supporters like Magox and me see this for what it was: Terrible. In balance, it's nothing compared to what Trump and Hillary have done but that doesn't cure it.

 

The ticket looks optically appealing: 2 former R governors in D states.

 

One of the Libertarian problems, as someone who once dove in a little, is that like every party, it's got an insider process. And due to its fringe roots (free weed long before anyone with a back ache could get weed), the insiders are wackjobs. It's hard for me as a huge Libertarian sympathizer, to take the leadership seriously, let alone ask others to take the party seriously. And Johnson's gaffes undermine both Libretarian and any third party credibility.

 

The third parties picked a poor year to have space cadets as their chosen candidates. She (Stein) is really no more firmly grounded on the planet than he is. Both parties (Green and Libertarian) could have probably done some damage with legitimate candidates.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Can you describe the criteria you used for judging terribleness?

I think you can work it out, but I'll give you a helping hand.

 

He's the candidate with the strongest libertarian bent, who believes the most in free market policies, has successful executive experience, and has a clean record in regards to corruption and lying.

Edited September 29, 2016 by TakeYouToTasker

[Benjamin Franklin]

He obviously does know foreign leaders, he mentioned two of them earlier in the town hall.

 

Is it really a straw man? You said within this answer yourself that you would rather have him evade than take a minute to think about the answer to a question that he probably hasn't thought about before. That was right after you "gave Trump his due" for spewing crap.

 

Would you rather have a thoughtful leader, or an encyclopedic one?

 

Encyclopedic, no. But smart enough to answer a basic question yes. Yes, I want that. Maybe even more so from someone who already had an awful moment on foreign policy. You can't space out on 2nd grade questions when you're auditioning to be the leader of the free world. My standards are higher than tolerating stupidity in a president.

 

That he mentioned them before doesn't matter. If he was a good student, he could have named a world leader. If he was a better politician, he could have Trumped his way around the question. He needs to be both smart and political to be effective. Obama is a master politician--it's something to appreciate in him. Trump is a master media manipulator. Something to appreciate in him. Clinton and Trump are incredibly smart. Etc, etc. Johnson lacks all of the above and doesn't seem to be working to fix his flaws, which makes him hard to take seriously. He couldn't name a world leader he admired. And what stumped him was not juggling 10 world leader names in his mind and noodling out his favorite but coming up with any name at all. I mean, my god, THE POPE. For F$#%s sake you can never go wrong with the pope in a pinch.

 

I could wring his friggin' neck.

[grinreaper]

I think you can work it out.

I just wanted to reconcile that statement with your long held belief that you'd never vote for either one of the major party candidates in any election year. Seems to me that he or the third most terrible candidate was going to get your vote anyway.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I just wanted to reconcile that statement with your long held belief that you'd never vote for either one of the major party candidates in any election year. Seems to me that he or the third most terrible candidate was going to get your vote anyway.

Your memory is poor here.

 

My long standing position had been that I would not vote for any Republican candidate whom I deemed insufficiently libertarian, and would instead vocally cast a protest vote for the opposing Democratic nominee, encouraging other libertarians to do the same in order to force the Republican Party to embrace libertarian aspects as part of it's platform.

 

Earlier this year you asked me why I was intending to vote for Johnson instead of taking my usual position, and I responded that I could not in good conscience cast a ballot for Hillary Clinton under any circumstances.

[Deranged Rhino]

Johnson is the fourth most terrible candidate running this election cycle, which is why he'll get my vote.

[ExiledInIllinois]

"Hey Gare, here's a little help and advice. Look, I just gained 10 million voters!"

-Donald Trump