The equally annoying "Obnoxiously Obtuse Optimists"

[Fan in Chicago]

So you think Rex and Whaley are BFFs now, with both reporting directly to Pegula? I don't know who was pulling what strings at the draft, but it had Rex's greasy fingerprints all over it.

 

Which, in and of itself, does not prove any disagreement between the two. It could be spun as a GM giving the coach everything he needs to succeed. For all his faults, Ryan did preside over drafting some pretty good D players while in NY. I dont know the power structure with that organization at the time, but we can speculate that Ryan had a hand in those drafts as well.

 

But, the issue is that we went too much in favor of the D leaving the O largely unattended (unless one is expecting a 6th round WR to magically take over the #2 spot in his rookie season). Before anyone asks, the Bills should have 'over paid' for Slauson and drafted a WR no later than the 3rd round. Lest anyone missed the obvious point, the receving threats are woefully thin. Not much depth after Clay and heck we dont even know if there is a legitimate #3 or #4 WR on the roster. I realize that Roman is run-heavy and thats not necessrily a bad thing even on a 'pass happy league'. But that doesnt mean that the starting receiving corps should be as badly ignored as it has been. And no, I am not expecting some good fortune to drop a good WR in our laps post-June 1. That is hope, not a strategy.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Fan in Chicago

[mannc]

 

OMG! How could they address areas of need with highly rated players? WTH were they thinking getting a guy from a great Clemson program who was rated as a top 15 prospect? Fire everyone!

In your zeal to defend the administration, you are projecting. All I said was that it appears that Rex had a huge influence on the top of the draft; I didn't say they were bad picks, although they were not the ones I would have made. Time will tell. If it doesn't pan out, fingers will be pointed between the new BFFs, that I guarantee.

[26CornerBlitz]

In your zeal to defend the administration, you are projecting. All I said was that it appears that Rex had a huge influence on the top of the draft; I didn't say they were bad picks, although they were not the ones I would have made. Time will tell. If it doesn't pan out, fingers will be pointed between the new BFFs, that I guarantee.

 

I'm not projecting anything. Based on the needs the Bills had, they selected players to fill those needs although I wouldn't have drafted Adolphus Washington if it were up to me. You're are providing a guarantee, but I'm the one projecting? OK, if you say so.

[mannc]

 

I'm not projecting anything. Based on the needs the Bills had, they selected players to fill those needs although I wouldn't have drafted Adolphus Washington if it were up to me. You're are providing a guarantee, but I'm the one projecting? OK, if you say so.

You're projecting words that I never said. Drafting to fill perceived needs is not a great strategy, so that's a weak defense of these picks. If all three (or even two of them) turn into impact starters, then it was a good draft. On the other hand, if a couple of them bust, Rex/Whaley's got a problem, especially if Lee or a couple of the receivers they passed up become stars, not to mention if Paxton Lynch lights it up. We'll see. Maybe for the first time in 20 years, the Bills are smarter than the rest of the league.

[26CornerBlitz]

You're projecting words that I never said. Drafting to fill perceived needs is not a great strategy, so that's a weak defense of these picks. If all three (or even two of them) turn into impact starters, then it was a good draft. On the other hand, if a couple of them bust, Rex/Whaley's got a problem, especially if Lee or a couple of the receivers they passed up become stars, not to mention if Paxton Lynch lights it up. We'll see. Maybe for the first time in 20 years, the Bills are smarter than the rest of the league.

 

If you are reaching to draft players for need then that is absolutely a poor strategy. Is that what the Bills did? With their 1st two picks, I would say no. I liked Lee and would have been fine with the Bills taking him, but Shaq was rated higher. Paxton Lynch? No! Since Whaley has been the GM calling the shots in three drafts, they have done pretty well. Who cares about 20 years because that has zero to do with what's happening now.

[mannc]

 

If you are reaching to draft players for need then that is absolutely a poor strategy. Is that what the Bills did? With their 1st two picks, I would say no. I liked Lee and would have been fine with the Bills taking him, but Shaq was rated higher. Paxton Lynch? No! Since Whaley has been the GM calling the shots in three drafts, they have done pretty well. Who cares about 20 years because that has zero to do with what's happening now.

Some people think drafting Shaq at 19 with his medical issue was reaching to fill a perceived need, and that giving up two mid-round picks to move up to take a throwback ILB in the second round was another example of reaching to fill a perceived need. Same with Washington in the third. Now if these guys play really well, it's all good, but if they don't, I think someone is going to take the fall, and rightly so. Edited May 22, 2016 by mannc

[26CornerBlitz]

Some people think drafting Shaq at 19 with his medical issue was reaching to fill a perceived need, and that giving up two mid-round picks to move up to take a throwback ILB in the second round was another example of reaching to fill a perceived need. Same with Washington in the third. Now if these guys play really well, it's all good, but if they don't, I think someone is going to take the fall, and rightly so.

 

I'll take Whaley with his track record over some people. The medical issue is a short term setback that is simply not a reach in any rational way. Reaching is drafting a less talented player too high. Same thing with regard to Ragland who most considered a 1st round pick. I fail to see how getting a guy valued as a 1st rounder in the 2nd is a reach.

[mannc]

 

I'll take Whaley with his track record over some people. The medical issue is a short term setback that is simply not a reach in any rational way. Reaching is drafting a less talented player too high. Same thing with regard to Ragland who most considered a 1st round pick. I fail to see how getting a guy valued as a 1st rounder in the 2nd is a reach.

We'll see. And let me remind you that RR was not "valued as a first rounder" by anyone who mattered, otherwise, he would not have lasted to 41. He plays a low impact, relatively easy to replace position. The Bills gave up a lot for such a player.

[26CornerBlitz]

We'll see. And let me remind you that RR was not "valued as a first rounder" by anyone who mattered, otherwise, he would not have lasted to 41. He plays a low impact, relatively easy to replace position. The Bills gave up a lot for such a player.

 

There are lots of reasons why players last longer than they may be projected. Just ask Robert Nkemdiche, Myles Jack, and Jaylon Smith. With regard to low impact position, LB is an important position in the RR defense and two 4th round picks is a price that isn't woth making too much of IMO.

[John from Riverside]

You're projecting words that I never said. Drafting to fill perceived needs is not a great strategy, so that's a weak defense of these picks. If all three (or even two of them) turn into impact starters, then it was a good draft. On the other hand, if a couple of them bust, Rex/Whaley's got a problem, especially if Lee or a couple of the receivers they passed up become stars, not to mention if Paxton Lynch lights it up. We'll see. Maybe for the first time in 20 years, the Bills are smarter than the rest of the league.

Maybe those Lee, Lynch, and those WRs were simply not the right value on their board?

 

It really could be that simple

[Maury Ballstein]

That seems about right, but an ugly 8-8, where the team is eliminated early and then wins a couple glorified exhibition games (kinda like last year) would probably spell curtains for Rex and maybe Whaley, but the details will matter. Rex and Whaley seem to have forged a mutual non-aggression pact for now, but if the losses start to mount, that will blow apart in a very ugly way.

Sounds like Doom.

[John from Riverside]

In your zeal to defend the administration, you are projecting. All I said was that it appears that Rex had a huge influence on the top of the draft; I didn't say they were bad picks, although they were not the ones I would have made. Time will tell. If it doesn't pan out, fingers will be pointed between the new BFFs, that I guarantee.

So you are NOT saying that Rex had influence over the picks?

We'll see. And let me remind you that RR was not "valued as a first rounder" by anyone who mattered, otherwise, he would not have lasted to 41. He plays a low impact, relatively easy to replace position. The Bills gave up a lot for such a player.

Christ

[mannc]

Maybe those Lee, Lynch, and those WRs were simply not the right value on their board?

 

It really could be that simple

Maybe so, but if those guys become stars and Shaq doesn't, does the fact that they were "not the right value on their board" exonerate OBD?

So you are NOT saying that Rex had influence over the picks?

 

I'm saying that I suspect Rex had a great deal of influence over the picks at the top of the Bills' draft.

[GunnerBill]

Some people think drafting Shaq at 19 with his medical issue was reaching to fill a perceived need, and that giving up two mid-round picks to move up to take a throwback ILB in the second round was another example of reaching to fill a perceived need. Same with Washington in the third. Now if these guys play really well, it's all good, but if they don't, I think someone is going to take the fall, and rightly so.

For every person who thinks those picks were reaching for need there is another who vehemently disagrees.

 

Look, if draft picks don't work out the GM carries the can. If talented teams don't win games coaches carry the can. If the Bills have a losing season it is hard to see them sticking with both Rex and Whaley (one might survive and the other be sacrificed). Another 8-8 or better and I think they both make 2017.

[John from Riverside]

Maybe so, but if those guys become stars and Shaq doesn't, does the fact that they were "not the right value on their board" exonerate OBD?

I'm saying that I suspect Rex had a great deal of influence over the picks at the top of the Bills' draft.

No....it does not ...if they dont pan out then it comes down on the head of Whaley and everyone in that front office

 

but

 

Lets wait for that to happen? Because with most of Whaley's picks it has NOT happened.

[Nihilarian]

Russ Brandon made a big impression on the Pegulas when the team was sold. They were repeatedly praising him before, during, and after the sale to the media. Not really sure what aspects of his job performance you would take issue with. He's managed to keep a bad football team with an aging stadium and one of the less wealthy fan bases extremely profitable. He's done this while keeping in mind the needs of the community and setting season ticket sales records. He sounds like a rockstar! No wonder he's pres of the Sabres now too.

 

I don't want to argue about Whaley, but I'm a fan.

What front office personal do you want to replace and with whom?

The thing is, this is a new owner who is so wealthy he doesn't need the team to make a healthy profit to support himself. He doesn't need to be the team president to get a paycheck. Plus, I'm not advocating replacing or firing anyone in the Bills FO.

 

About the only time this franchise has had winning seasons in it's fifty plus year history under the late owner was when he stepped back and let Chuck Knox take over control of the team and let Knox build up the team his way despite a bad GM. The next time was when Bill Polian was GM making the important football decisions.

 

 

What I'm against is this team going forward with the old model of running the team under the first owner. The point here is that the current flow chart has both the head coach and GM reporting to an owner who really has no NFL football experience in running an NFL team.Just as that first owner was an insurance man and not a football man. Then, as current team president and managing partner of the Buffalo Bills, Russ Brandon is still in position to influence these new owners on the football side of operations.

 

These new owners have no experience running the football operations of an NFL team and they really shouldn't be choosing the head coach. But that is exactly what happened in the hire of Rex Ryan. Brandon was so impressed by Ryan that he told the Pegula's to not let him leave the building and so they didn't. People at the top of the org chart making football choices that they shouldn't be making.

 

The hiring of a team president of football operations would give Doug Whaley some help in building the team properly while making the right choices in the hiring of a good head coach. Someone to set the idea of what wins in today's league in terms of offense, defense and then stay on course instead of changing schemes every few years. All the team has done over the last sixteen years is keep changing directions because there has been no distinct NFL knowledgeable leader at the top and there still isn't one today!

 

Bottom line is, this team is in desperate, desperate need of hiring a president of football operations to make those intelligent football choices on how to make this franchise competitive against the New England Patriots.

[Tenhigh]

Bottom line is, this team is in desperate, desperate need of hiring a president of football operations to make those intelligent football choices on how to make this franchise competitive against the New England Patriots.

Or Brady could just retire.

[What a Tuel]

I didn't say that, did I? Again, I don't know what went down in the draft room but it looks like Rex had an inordinate amount of influence. First four picks used on defense, including a Clemson guy at 1?

 

So when Whaley used 14 1st round picks to get Sammy Watkins, Rex Ryan was whispering in his ear from NY? Or is it just a good football program? I have no doubt that move would have been attributed to Rex if he was here at the time which is hilarious to me, and revealing of the people who think they know what is going on behind the scenes from a few random statements and a lot of conjecture.

 

edit: 4 of 6 picks in 2015 were offense. Is Rex on a delay or something? Or only influencing his defensive focus on the even years? Or does the 2nd round pick of Darby satisfy Rex's demands for defensive players? What is the method to this madness! I must know!

Edited May 24, 2016 by What a Tuel

[Nihilarian]

Or Brady could just retire.

I said Patriots, simply because they have basically owned the AFC East division for the last 14 years and have only missed the playoffs twice in all that time. They have been to six super bowls and won four of them. I for one don't ever want to see Tom Brady in another super bowl!

 

If you think waiting for Brady to retire is the answer then there really is no hope for this team, ever! The Patriots lost Brady for the entire year in the first game of the season in 2008 and still went 11-5. Last year they lost so many starters that only 3 of 22 starters played in a full 16 games and yet were only one game away from going to the super bowl again.

 

It isn't about waiting for Brady, Belichick or anyone else to retire. It's about building a great team that can contend with the best in the league and right now Buffalo isn't even close, IMO.

[BADOLBILZ]

For every person who thinks those picks were reaching for need there is another who vehemently disagrees.

 

Look, if draft picks don't work out the GM carries the can. If talented teams don't win games coaches carry the can. If the Bills have a losing season it is hard to see them sticking with both Rex and Whaley (one might survive and the other be sacrificed). Another 8-8 or better and I think they both make 2017.

 

Consensus "OMG that was a reach" picks are scarce.

 

Cyrus Kouandjio was considered a first round talent by MANY.......and the Bills thought they got themselves a steal........but it's pretty obvious now that he is Frankenstein-esque at OT.

 

Another bolt-neck who many thought was an early round talent was James Hardy.

 

I think what you have to be aware of as an organization is that NEED clouds your vision.

 

I think one of the things that Shaq and Ragnuts have in common with Kouandjio is that they were both easy, lazy evaluations.........I don't see either of these guys as real impact players......better college players than pros........but they essentially become *filler* early picks in draft evaluation........as in "well there has to be a true ILB somewhere in the top 50 and Ragnuts is a high profile ILB for the top program in the SEC".

 

It's been brought up before but the reason that Seattle has such a talented roster is that they have a system of relatively efficient evaluation for pro potential that allows them to find overlooked talent all thru the draft. I think the Bills CLEARLY are on a completely different evaluation path. They draft a lot of big name, big program, former elite HS recruits and perhaps over-decorated-as-a-result players and the reality is that those things don't mean much on the next level and probably should carry less weight at OBD than they appear to.

Edited May 25, 2016 by #BADOL