Do the Bills Need New Medical Staff/Trainers?

[hondo in seattle]

I think this thread is based on the false assumption that the medical staff "clears" potential draft picks. In reality, it's not that black and white. Doctors cannot "clear" a player's future. There's no crystal ball. What they can do is offer risk of future injury. But, after weighing the risks and benefits, it's still up to Whaley to make the decision. We really have no idea what the docs told DW and what he did with that info.

 

This is right. DW probably balanced the report of the medical staff with Shaq's own report that he's played effectively with the injury since his freshman year and DW decided the risk was small.

 

We all might have reached the same conclusion if we had been in DW's shoes. But without knowing exactly what Whaley was told, who knows?

 

The one puzzling thing is that Schefter claimed surgery would be necessary while Lawson denied that. What was Schefter's source? What was Lawson's? Why did they disagree?

[RyanC883]

Yes. Someone in that staff is a total moron and needs to be fired now. Whaley in particular needs to get rid of that person because said person/persons made Whaley look like an idiot. Consider the following:

 

(1) Lawson was taken off multiple teams draft boards due to his shoulder. He re-aggravated it in a non-pad/non-contact swim move.

 

(2) This medical staff cleared Terrell Troup (with known back problems). We all remember he was taken 1 pick ahead of Gronk.

 

(3) This medical staff likely cleared Kouandjio, despite the fact it was reported he had arthritic knees. No clue if that is what is holding him back, but something clearly is.

[Rubes]

This thread is filled with so much awesomeness.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I heard there was a witch hunt. Where do I get my pitchfork?

 

I've always been puzzled by this.

 

1) why is a pitch fork needed to hunt a witch?

2) what is a pitch fork exactly is it anything like a tuning fork? does it help you stay on pitch?

3) if it actually has to do with pitch, why use a fork? wouldn't a spatula or a knife or a board or something be a more effective means to apply it?

[John from Riverside]

 

I've always been puzzled by this.

 

1) why is a pitch fork needed to hunt a witch?

2) what is a pitch fork exactly is it anything like a tuning fork? does it help you stay on pitch?

3) if it actually has to do with pitch, why use a fork? wouldn't a spatula or a knife or a board or something be a more effective means to apply it?

LOL

[The Wiz]

 

I've always been puzzled by this.

 

1) why is a pitch fork needed to hunt a witch?

2) what is a pitch fork exactly is it anything like a tuning fork? does it help you stay on pitch?

3) if it actually has to do with pitch, why use a fork? wouldn't a spatula or a knife or a board or something be a more effective means to apply it?

1) A pitch fork was used to hunt witches as an effective tool to keep the witch a distance away from you whilst simultaneously impaling said witch. This then made it easier to tie the witch to a stake and burn.

2) A pitch fork is not like a tuning fork. It does not help you stay on pitch.

3) A pitch fork is an agricultural tool with a long handle tines used to lift and pitch or throw loose material, such as hay, straw or leaves.

 

Although I've always found a duck more useful when witch hunting.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1) A pitch fork was used to hunt witches as an effective tool to keep the witch a distance away from you whilst simultaneously impaling said witch. This then made it easier to tie the witch to a stake and burn.

2) A pitch fork is not like a tuning fork. It does not help you stay on pitch.

3) A pitch fork is an agricultural tool with a long handle tines used to lift and pitch or throw loose material, such as hay, straw or leaves.

 

Although I've always found a duck more useful when witch hunting.

 

Now Wiz, you got to think of the physics of the situation logically. If the witch is impaled at the end of an agricultural tool with a long handle and tines and you impale her, how are you going to get close enough to tie the knots to the stake? And wouldn't the weight of the tines and handle interfere with the test to see if she weighs the same as a duck, and is therefore made of wood?

[The Wiz]

 

Now Wiz, you got to think of the physics of the situation logically. If the witch is impaled at the end of an agricultural tool with a long handle and tines and you impale her, how are you going to get close enough to tie the knots to the stake? And wouldn't the weight of the tines and handle interfere with the test to see if she weighs the same as a duck, and is therefore made of wood?

That's why you have a mob when you go hunting for witches. A few people use the pitch forks to get her wrangled in and the others tie her up/put her in a cage. Once there, you can put her on a scale to see if she weighs the same as the duck.

[Reed83HOF]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/18/some-say-shaq-lawson-shoulder-surgery-was-inevitable/

 

“His shoulder was so bad it would have dislocated tying his shoes,” one league source told PFT."

[Coach Tuesday]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/18/some-say-shaq-lawson-shoulder-surgery-was-inevitable/

 

His shoulder was so bad it would have dislocated tying his shoes, one league source told PFT."

Clown show at OBD.

[OldTimer1960]

Clown show at OBD.

Stop. If you don't think that the Doctors had a good idea that this was a possibility, then think again. This was a long-term pick and please everyone spare us the "we haven't made the playoffs in 15 years speech". That fact is truly irrelevant with regard to where the current team is and what their hopes for moderate success were this year.

 

The truth is (from my vantage point) the Bills have crawled out of a major talent gap over the past 4 years. They haven't been fortunate enough to stumble into a Manning, Luck, Brady. They are pretty much as good as any team who doesn't have a great QB. "But, but, but they should have gotten a future HOF QB" - those guys are truly rare and even when they come along they are snatched up early in the draft.

[Saxum]

Clown show at OBD.

 

Auditioning for Buffalo News as their new clown?

The truth is (from my vantage point) the Bills have crawled out of a major talent gap over the past 4 years. They haven't been fortunate enough to stumble into a Manning, Luck, Brady. They are pretty much as good as any team who doesn't have a great QB. "But, but, but they should have gotten a future HOF QB" - those guys are truly rare and even when they come along they are snatched up early in the draft.

 

But the Bills could have tanked the season as many geniuses would say is the right decision while bashing them constantly for losing.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/18/some-say-shaq-lawson-shoulder-surgery-was-inevitable/

 

“His shoulder was so bad it would have dislocated tying his shoes,” one league source told PFT."

 

I realize this may be non-PC in this pro-LGBTDb (Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Dead bestiality) approving world but how many eunuchs are employed by league?

I am sure the source, who did not have balls to allow his name to be used, belongs to one of those groups.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

It was reported, prior to the departure of the now-Jacksonville Jaguars OL coach, that he and Whaley wanted to see changes in the Bills training staff, feeling that they were too "old school" and using outdated techniques.

 

The last couple years, it has seemed as though the Bills have been plagued by unusual numbers of injuries and worse, re-injuries as they bring players back.

 

The medical staff "cleared" 2014 2nd round draft pick Kouandjio despite reports he had an arthritic knee. The team has been coy about it, but there has been talk of a condition that must be "managed", and while he came into last seasons camp strong, he faded. One possibility would be a condition that healed up over the off season but flared again with use/overuse.

 

The medical staff "cleared" this year's 1st round draft pick Shaq Lawson, who had reports of a shoulder injury that would require surgery. Now he's had surgery.

 

In public, Whaley reports he "has full confidence" in our medical staff, but if Lawson can go from "able to play through a season" to "needs immediate surgery" with one swim move in a non-contact drill, is that confidence deserved?

 

Whaley is part politician so he tells us all is well when they know things are not.

 

I think the medical staff is fine and that Whaley picks damaged goods hoping that he will get a great player at a lower pick.

The BILLS have never recovered from losing Rusty Jones. His strength/conditioning were first rate, and we never had all these injuries when he was here.

 

I think we actually did pretty good when MaRoon was here, but I'm just going off memory I could be wrong.

[Coach Tuesday]

Stop. If you don't think that the Doctors had a good idea that this was a possibility, then think again. This was a long-term pick and please everyone spare us the "we haven't made the playoffs in 15 years speech". That fact is truly irrelevant with regard to where the current team is and what their hopes for moderate success were this year.

 

The truth is (from my vantage point) the Bills have crawled out of a major talent gap over the past 4 years. They haven't been fortunate enough to stumble into a Manning, Luck, Brady. They are pretty much as good as any team who doesn't have a great QB. "But, but, but they should have gotten a future HOF QB" - those guys are truly rare and even when they come along they are snatched up early in the draft.

 

"Day one starter"

[machine gun kelly]

The part we don't know is if they graded players medical 1-4, from a green light to a red light. What did the front office do with the info? It could be the medical staff is incompetent, or is it DW and RR reaching thinking they are the smartest guys in the room. Going back to Troup, did we reach because we needed a DT?

 

It just seems more likely we have a front office so desperate to win, they make bad decisions, vs. morons for a medical staff.

 

Bottom line is none of us know, but just speculation.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The part we don't know is if they graded players medical 1-4, from a green light to a red light. What did the front office do with the info? It could be the medical staff is incompetent, or is it DW and RR reaching thinking they are the smartest guys in the room. Going back to Troup, did we reach because we needed a DT?

 

It just seems more likely we have a front office so desperate to win, they make bad decisions, vs. morons for a medical staff.

 

Bottom line is none of us know, but just speculation.

 

Fair point, Machine Gun. I'm fingering the medical staff based on Whaley's words about Lawson being completely cleared, day 1 starter blahblah but maybe Whaley was spinning what the staff actually told him.

 

I have felt that the drafting has improved since we took Troup - there was a lot of turnover in the scouting and pro-personnel departments and it seems we've had better drafts since.

 

But your bottom line is spot on.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The part we don't know is if they graded players medical 1-4, from a green light to a red light. What did the front office do with the info? It could be the medical staff is incompetent, or is it DW and RR reaching thinking they are the smartest guys in the room. Going back to Troup, did we reach because we needed a DT?

 

It just seems more likely we have a front office so desperate to win, they make bad decisions, vs. morons for a medical staff.

 

Bottom line is none of us know, but just speculation.

 

Just cast as big a net as possible. They are all morons.

[What a Tuel]

 

"Day one starter"

 

The going theory is now that they quite clearly knew about the surgery, Whaley talked up the draft pick as a day one starter to get fans excited (as opposed to the truth and subsequent pitchforking). Then they played up the re-injury as a reason to do the surgery.

 

If true, they were obviously very clumsy with the whole thing if they thought it would be believable for the fans. The part that sticks out to me though, is that they are willing to push their strategy and take the players they want despite the anticipated public outcry of "we know better - don't do that". Which is great. I am glad they don't listen to the mob.

[OldTimer1960]

I heard that Jaguars 1st round pick Jalen Ramsey injured his knee in non-contact drills. How could Jackosville's medical staff have missed the obvious potential for his meniscus to tear? That is 2 years in a row that their 1st pick was injured even before the season started! Heads must roll! (Heavy sarcasm)

Yes. Someone in that staff is a total moron and needs to be fired now. Whaley in particular needs to get rid of that person because said person/persons made Whaley look like an idiot. Consider the following:

 

(1) Lawson was taken off multiple teams draft boards due to his shoulder. He re-aggravated it in a non-pad/non-contact swim move.

 

(2) This medical staff cleared Terrell Troup (with known back problems). We all remember he was taken 1 pick ahead of Gronk.

 

(3) This medical staff likely cleared Kouandjio, despite the fact it was reported he had arthritic knees. No clue if that is what is holding him back, but something clearly is.

 

Do you know that Gronkowski was considered a medical risk after missing much of his last year in college with a back injury?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I heard that Jaguars 1st round pick Jalen Ramsey injured his knee in non-contact drills. How could Jackosville's medical staff have missed the obvious potential for his meniscus to tear? That is 2 years in a row that their 1st pick was injured even before the season started! Heads must roll! (Heavy sarcasm)

 

Do you know that Gronkowski was considered a medical risk after missing much of his last year in college with a back injury?

 

Old Timer, you have some good points, but surely you can see the difference between a "sh** happens" kind of injury and a known medical risk, touted with glee by the FO as "cleared to play by the medical staff" "not concerned about his shoulder" "Day 1 Starter", who had a known injury history, and who turns out to need surgery for that very injury.

 

We know that Gronkowski was considered a medical risk and that's why he fell to the 2nd round. It makes it all the more bitter that the Bills drafted Troup (who actually was a medical risk and missed 1 1/2 seasons on IR before being cut when he no longer fit the scheme) 1 pick ahead of him. If it were just Shaq's shoulder I wouldn't be worried about the medical staff/trainers. It's actually the aggregate concern about the way Troup's fractured vertebra was handled, the way Aaron Williams neck injury was handled, the way McCoy's hamstring injury was handled, a few others that slip my mind at the moment - Hogan playing with torn ligaments in his hands so severe he had horrible pain with each catch - now this. We all know playing with injury and pain is part of football, but there are still limits where you have to say "that guy could be paralyzed for life, he shouldn't be out there" or "since his job is to catch, why don't we have an effective backup, because he can't".

 

Maybe it's not the medical staff, maybe it's the way the GM and coaches use the information the medical staff provides them, but it sure seems there's a missing link somewhere.

 

Whaley is part politician so he tells us all is well when they know things are not.

I think the medical staff is fine and that Whaley picks damaged goods hoping that he will get a great player at a lower pick.

 

I suppose that's part of my current beef, Barbarian. I haven't thought that of Whaley. I've thought he was a straight shooter, within the bounds of competitive advantage, who would actually tell it like it is.

 

I agree with you and OldTimer1960 that if the pick was presented as an opportunity to grab a top-of-the-1st talent in a high reward/some risk scenario, many fewer people would be upset.

 

It's not nice to "play" the fans, which is what you hypothesize Whaley is doing. After so many years of futility, we don't take it kindly.

 

So. Maybe the medical staff is fine and the FO is trying to bullgaffle the fans, I grant that's a possibility.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Hopeful