boyst Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Responding to one who is most definitely anything but classy and civil. stooping yo someone's else's level is not a reflection of them but of yourself. Not classy or civil. Did the Bills use a first round pick on a player with a medical question mark? They certainly did. So what? The issue that plagued him was an issue that was correctable by surgery. I'm sure Whaley felt that Lawson could get through the season and then the shoulder issue could be addressed. It didn't work out that way. He had the surgery and he will miss a good portion of the season. When you make a high draft selection, or any selection for that matter, the priority issue shouldn't be how good is he going to be in his rookie year. The more important issue is what is the player's potential and how good is he going to be for you in the long run. Most draft analysts had Lawson pegged in the top ten range. If he turns out to be a good player a little later rather than sooner then it was not only a good selection but it was also smart selection in that we selected a player ranked higher than where he was selected. I agree with this though frustrated as BIll Walsh used to attempt to keep rookies off the field. That was before fire agency changed the league. A lot of what used to be can no longer done. Getting a player to full potential in 2 yrs is a must. Most often that includes reps as a rookie at non skill positions like DE. Its going to be a cleft note in Whaleys history.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 stooping yo someone's else's level is not a reflection of them but of yourself. Not classy or civil. I'll concede that you have a point, but sometimes enough is enough. Not to mention that you have had your moments here on TSW that have exhibited both a lack of civility and classiness. Don't throw stones when........
boyst Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 FYI: Schwartz did not want to stay in Buffalo unless he was the Head Coach. link? Beyond rumor... link? Gotta love how the new narrative/spin has been to explain Lawson as a long term investment...on a team that needed immediate help in the defensive front 7. On a team where the HC is known for his defensive scheme. Or how it wasn't a "win-now" type season despite the millions invested in guaranteed spending since the 2015 off-season began. Or how the HC once pronounced that they were "going" to the post-season. But there's one item not being addressed by the cheerleader contingent: How does ownership feel about their top pick being on the shelf for around 5 months? Because if we're to believe Whaley, the Pegula's are involved in decision making and add to the discussion. If the GM and HC told them it's a good move despite the reported injury and it won't be an immediate issue and this happens how should they feel? I'll guarantee they're not happy and have a severe lack of trust in their top football people. Gotta love it. you'll be called a negative Nancy but that's the truth. Replacing a lacklusteted effort acclaimed to be lazy by this place - DE with one that may not see much of the field was a failed plan in both execution and coaching
JohnC Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Thanks JohnC. I'll try to restrain myself to allow for more content from you. Cheers. Insincerity suits you well!
boyst Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Gotta love how the new narrative/spin has been to explain Lawson as a long term investment...on a team that needed immediate help in the defensive front 7. On a team where the HC is known for his defensive scheme. Or how it wasn't a "win-now" type season despite the millions invested in guaranteed spending since the 2015 off-season began. Or how the HC once pronounced that they were "going" to the post-season. I think everyone is dissapointed that he needs the immediate surgery....but that does not nor did it EVER take away from the fact that a 1st round rookie in the NFL draft is not a long term investment. These are the core guys you biuld your team around not just in the immediate future but long term. The bills have SHOWN this by making signing their own talented players their highest priority But there's one item not being addressed by the cheerleader contingent: How does ownership feel about their top pick being on the shelf for around 5 months? I dont know....maybe that will come out in time. MAYBE Whaley is selling that he was going to take Ragland if he did not take Shaq? He did say as much? Maybe Whaley is doing the right thing and saying that the kid is worth the wait? I find it interesting that there are fans who are banging the table for linebackers with knee issues but wont wait for an edge (and good ones are SO hard to find) Because if we're to believe Whaley, the Pegula's are involved in decision making and add to the discussion. If the GM and HC told them it's a good move despite the reported injury and it won't be an immediate issue and this happens how should they feel? I'll guarantee they're not happy and have a severe lack of trust in their top football people. You cannot guarantee anything....you have absolutely no idea what they are saying......people that make these decisions look at the big picture not immediate gratification. Gotta love it. I skimmed this as it did not appear to have much merit to any points worthwhile. But if Whaley used the defense well if ibdidnt get Lawson I was getting ragland...than its a joke. Ragland slipped to the second because he is not a very good NFL prospect. He is a 4-5 yr Brandon spikes player. At best. And that is whaleys defense?!? I don't. As I have posted many times, his history at Clemson led them to believe that he could make it through the 2016 season without surgery. They were simply wrong with the calculation and they acknowledged up front that if it became a problem they would deal with it. I just do not see any attempt to mislead when one looks at what Whaley said right after Shaq was drafted. they were wrong that how many other teams were more or less right about? He was passed over because of injury. That's on the bills org. Gotta love how the new narrative/spin has been to explain Lawson as a long term investment...on a team that needed immediate help in the defensive front 7. On a team where the HC is known for his defensive scheme. He is a long term investment. And he will provide help to the front 7 in his rookie season. What's your point? Or how it wasn't a "win-now" type season despite the millions invested in guaranteed spending since the 2015 off-season began. Or how the HC once pronounced that they were "going" to the post-season. Who said they weren't in win-now mode? But more importantly, exactly where do you think the organization's win-now attitude lies (as you project it) when they don't have an answer at QB? But there's one item not being addressed by the cheerleader contingent: How does ownership feel about their top pick being on the shelf for around 5 months? You assume they're pissed. Why? All evidence from both the Sabres and Bills points to Pegula(s) favoring long term over short term. So why do you assume he's upset that a great player won't be ready in September? Because if we're to believe Whaley, the Pegula's are involved in decision making and add to the discussion. If the GM and HC told them it's a good move despite the reported injury and it won't be an immediate issue and this happens how should they feel? I'll guarantee they're not happy and have a severe lack of trust in their top football people. You guarantee it, huh? Well okay, then it MUST be so. Gotta love it. in win now mode we draft a injury suspect player. We draft a questionable talent at DT. And we get a good value on a run stuffing ILB that succeeded against the run but failed on the pass rush? Me thinks the scheme is more koolaid than actual planned reality. @4JoshReed Here's the exact Q & A with #Bills GM Whaley about Lawson's shoulder the night of the draft. that is not even saying anything. Its a blanket statement with a blackout option. So his quote is worthless
26CornerBlitz Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 I skimmed this as it did not appear to have much merit to any points worthwhile. But if Whaley used the defense well if ibdidnt get Lawson I was getting ragland...than its a joke. Ragland slipped to the second because he is not a very good NFL prospect. He is a 4-5 yr Brandon spikes player. At best. And that is whaleys defense?!? they were wrong that how many other teams were more or less right about? He was passed over because of injury. That's on the bills org. Well my opinion is that any team that passed on Shaq because of his shoulder injury is dumb and short sighted because the injury is repairable at a high rate of success and that should yield a long term prognosis of 100% function to allow for a long and productive NFL career.
boyst Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 I'll concede that you have a point, but sometimes enough is enough. Not to mention that you have had your moments here on TSW that have exhibited both a lack of civility and classiness. Don't throw stones when........ not throwing stones. I readily admit to being an !@#$ and beneath myself many times which is because I am reckless. Just a friendly reminder. You are a positive and upbeat poster. No need to sully yourself for revenge or biting back. Its never worth it and even feeds the energy of the damned.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 not throwing stones. I readily admit to being an !@#$ and beneath myself many times which is because I am reckless. Just a friendly reminder. You are a positive and upbeat poster. No need to sully yourself for revenge or biting back. Its never worth it and even feeds the energy of the damned. Good advice. Thanks.
boyst Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Well my opinion is that any team that passed on Shaq because of his shoulder injury is dumb and short sighted because the injury is repairable at a high rate of success and that should yield a long term prognosis of 100% function to allow for a long and productive NFL career. not disagreeing but it was a well known issue that the bills did not address in a way that sits comfortably with many fans
Best Player Available Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 This board is all about content. People come here to read new and interesting opinions and information about the Bills (and the NFL in general). There are some incredibly well-informed and articulate contributors here; after a while, you get to know who they are and, if you are like me, you pay much closer attention to what they say because they clearly know what they are talking about and they say it in an interesting way. These posters fall on both sides of the realist/optimist divide, but for me, most are in the former camp. It bothers me to see those posters attacked or mocked because I want them to stick around and keep sharing their opinions. As McBride said upthread, the Bills are a sick organization and have been for a long time. Although it is nice to finally have owners who are willing do what it takes to win, it's not at all clear that the Pegulas know how to do it. (I know--heresy!). The know-nothing coach reports directly to the owner, and there seems to be no clear, coherent plan in place, probably because there are too many hands on the wheel. The signs of a major turnaround are scarce, even though the team now seems to have a few more talented pieces than it did in the darkest days of the ongoing drought. Many of us still see an organization that is behind the curve in the modern NFL. Until that changes, we will continue to view everything this organization says and does with a skeptical eye. So far, we've been right a lot more than we've been wrong. Nice non confrontational post. To be chit on because you're not drunk on off season kool-aid all the time. is silly. One dude while continuing to become more agressive, in his attacks each off season and looks foolish and now IMO has zero cred here. maybe too much dolphin sushi? This team has been and continues to be suspect. Until that ends, all some have is some for this year grade C FA's and a draft class that has yet too take a single NFL snap. Some very suspect off season depth cuts, and a coach whose persona in front of a Mic is far better than his gameday coaching skills.
JohnC Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Well my opinion is that any team that passed on Shaq because of his shoulder injury is dumb and short sighted because the injury is repairable at a high rate of success and that should yield a long term prognosis of 100% function to allow for a long and productive NFL career. I was listening to WGR and in the discussion regarding Lawson's injury they brought up Rob Gronkowski's draft year. Howard Simon brought up that there were major concerns about Rob Gronkonski because of his back and other injuries. It was pointed out that some teams took him off of their draft boards. He was selected by the Pats in the second round and without a doubt has been instrumental in their historical success. Someday he will be inducted in the HOF. My point is simple and I have repeated it on a number of occasions. If you are going to take a calculated risk then it is worth doing it for a talented player.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 I was listening to WGR and in the discussion regarding Lawson's injury they brought up Rob Gronkowski's draft year. Howard Simon brought up that there were major concerns about Rob Gronkonski because of his back and other injuries. It was pointed out that some teams took him off of their draft boards. He was selected by the Pats in the second round and without a doubt has been instrumental in their historical success. Someday he will be inducted in the HOF. My point is simple and I have repeated it on a number of occasions. If you are going to take a calculated risk then it is worth doing it for a talented player. I absolutely agree and the nature of the injury also has to be a factor along with the potential payoff when considering the associated risk.
dave mcbride Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 24-7 or not, I'll put my contributions here up against yours on any day. Like I posted earlier, you are a zero and a lightweight. Only in your bizarro world does defending a boorish bombastic bully make any sense at all when someone puts him on ignore status after he initiates a PM threatening violence because he didn't like a forum post. Sounds like a normal individual to me. Yet somehow in your feeble mind, I'm a stalker. By interjecting yourself into the fray that you weren't involved in, you have exposed yourself to be nothing more than a sad follower. Have a nice day. Why? Rico has been a valuable contributor to this board for years and years. He just contributes differently than you do. I appreciate the links you post, but if everyone posted like you, it would be a very dull place. Variety is the spice of life, and just because someone can be overly snarky at times (Badol), it doesn't mean he's a bad poster or some sort of bully. He's not. He's a much better (and funnier) poster than you give him credit for, and I think that's because you don't like him personally. That's your choice, which is fine, but over the years he has been more right than not. Plus he really is knowledgeable. He can be wrong at times too--his take on McCoy is highly debatable to say the least, and he was really, really wrong about Rob Johnson. That said, the debate he started on McCoy is FUN (at least for me) and there is at least a hint of truth in his position. Also, your recent series of posts in this thread should suggest to you that civility is a two-way street--"feeble mind"? "Zero and a lightweight"? Physician, heal thyself. The bottom line: it takes all kinds, and this place is better when there's a highly differentiated group of knowledgeable posters, some of whom like to mix it up. Most boards suck. This one doesn't, largely because of the old-timer presence. Some are cranky, but whatever -- I can easily deal with that. Anyway, this whole thread is now less about negativity toward the Bills than negativity about other posters (and I'm including those directing stupid insults toward you). It's probably worth closing.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Why? Rico has been a valuable contributor to this board for years and years. He just contributes differently than you do. I appreciate the links you post, but if everyone posted like you, it would be a very dull place. Variety is the spice of life, and just because someone can be overly snarky at times (Badol), it doesn't mean he's a bad poster or some sort of bully. He's not. He's a much better (and funnier) poster than you give him credit for, and I think that's because you don't like him personally. That's your choice, which is fine, but over the years he has been more right than not. Plus he really is knowledgeable. He can be wrong at times too--his take on McCoy is highly debatable to say the least, and he was really, really wrong about Rob Johnson. That said, the debate he started on McCoy is FUN (at least for me) and there is at least a hint of truth in his position. Also, your recent series of posts in this thread should suggest to you that civility is a two-way street--"feeble mind"? "Zero and a lightweight"? Physician, heal thyself. The bottom line: it takes all kinds, and this place is better when there's a highly differentiated group of knowledgeable posters, some of whom like to mix it up. Most boards suck. This one doesn't, largely because of the old-timer presence. Some are cranky, but whatever -- I can easily deal with that. Anyway, this whole thread is now less about negativity toward the Bills than negativity about other posters (and I'm including those directing stupid insults toward you). It's probably worth closing. If I ever get in trouble, I want you as my lawyer. I'll leave it at that.
boyst Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Why? Rico has been a valuable contributor to this board for years and years. He just contributes differently than you do. I appreciate the links you post, but if everyone posted like you, it would be a very dull place. Variety is the spice of life, and just because someone can be overly snarky at times (Badol), it doesn't mean he's a bad poster or some sort of bully. He's not. He's a much better (and funnier) poster than you give him credit for, and I think that's because you don't like him personally. That's your choice, which is fine, but over the years he has been more right than not. Plus he really is knowledgeable. He can be wrong at times too--his take on McCoy is highly debatable to say the least, and he was really, really wrong about Rob Johnson. That said, the debate he started on McCoy is FUN (at least for me) and there is at least a hint of truth in his position. Also, your recent series of posts in this thread should suggest to you that civility is a two-way street--"feeble mind"? "Zero and a lightweight"? Physician, heal thyself. The bottom line: it takes all kinds, and this place is better when there's a highly differentiated group of knowledgeable posters, some of whom like to mix it up. Most boards suck. This one doesn't, largely because of the old-timer presence. Some are cranky, but whatever -- I can easily deal with that. Anyway, this whole thread is now less about negativity toward the Bills than negativity about other posters (and I'm including those directing stupid insults toward you). It's probably worth closing. we still need to explain stojan. That's not negativity. That's something else
3rdand12 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 you guys still at it Huh ? make sure you each, and everyone pick up the mess in the kitchen before you leave. all of it.
papazoid Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 ((((((((((((((((((( group hug )))))))))))))))))))))))
John from Riverside Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) If I ever get in trouble, I want you as my lawyer. I'll leave it at that. Hell probably show up in a leather outfit and get thrown in jail for comtempt https://youtu.be/lrZrpIgutwY?list=RDlrZrpIgutwY Edited May 20, 2016 by John from Hemet
BillsVet Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 I think this is the first time I saw a thread go from essentially mass division to almost a kumbaya moment. And I think that's good.
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