Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 As long as he doesn't need a spleen. The shah does, though.
3rdand12 Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 I've been re-watching all the games from last season. And, for whatever reason, it took quite a while for Sammy and TT to develop chemistry on-field. I suspect that Tyrod (and probably Roman) was just playing it a little too safe and not willing to throw into double coverage, and not giving Sammy the opportunities to make plays. In game one, I don't think Watkins was targeted at all until the second half, and then only a few times. It's hard to watch. By the end of the season, of course, Watkins looked like, and was used like a true #1. It would be a shame for that chemistry to take a step backwards. This really was amazing. And I think Tyrod did just "throw it to him" sometimes. and hope. Thanks goodness Watkins is amazing, because many plays i was cringing. Tyrod has along way to go reading and trusting what he sees. This is the step in his evolution that means the most to me Now he needs legs?!!! Oh jeese, this is a lot more serious than the FO led us to believe. at least his spleen is full go As long as he doesn't need a spleen. I have put you on the donation list just in case. Figured you would not mind I forged yur signature. For the Team ya know!
The Wiz Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 I have put you on the donation list just in case. Figured you would not mind I forged yur signature. For the Team ya know! Hopefully you signed it "The Wiz" and not just "Wiz" otherwise there's going to be a TBDer wondering why someone is coming for their spleen.
3rdand12 Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 Hopefully you signed it "The Wiz" and not just "Wiz" otherwise there's going to be a TBDer wondering why someone is coming for their spleen. well done my friend. Of course i used your first name The
26CornerBlitz Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 @ChrisTrapasso Sammy Watkins was named "the king" of a @PFF study. What does it mean for his 2016 season? My @BuffRumblings latest https://t.co/fbFm0Kx8lu
H2o Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 @ChrisTrapasso Sammy Watkins was named "the king" of a @PFF study. What does it mean for his 2016 season? My @BuffRumblings latest https://t.co/fbFm0Kx8lu I can't believe we traded up for this turd that everyone keeps trying to find a way to polish. ......
ALF Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Sammy "sprinting and moving 100%," prepared for whatever is asked to start camp In the meantime, Watkins has stayed in Buffalo throughout most of this offseason, working out three hours a day five to six days a week. “Gassers, 100s, everything in the workout room,” he said. “Any explosiveness, I’m doing that. I’m doing the cuts, but certain things are full speed and certain things aren’t.” http://www.wgr550.com/Sammy-sprinting-and-moving-100-prepared-for-whatev/22823075
Ronin Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 An elite talent doesn't necessarily produce elite stats. WR stats are a function of health, scheme, QB play, OL play, targets, other viable receiving options stretching the coverage, etc. Talking about a different position, OJ wouldn't be considered elite his first three years in the NFL by your standard. He had the talent, but worked for a coach who misused him. Then Lou Saban came to town and for the next 5 years OJ looked like one of the greatest players to play the game. A good gun is still a good gun when it's not being fired. This is comical. For starters you're ignoring everything that anyone said about Watkins prior to the draft. The talk was all about how "just get Sammy the ball and he would do the rest." Has that happened? Short answer to help you along in figuring out the answer, no, he's been among the worst in YAC and ranked closer to 200th than the top. As to not having to put up elite numbers in order to be considered elite, ROFLMAO, that might be true for a Tasker type, but for WRs, I can't stop snickering. You can't possibly be serious. No wonder some of the opinions here with nonsense like that. It's funny, you're probably among those that insisted that Spiller was "special" and elite too. OJ was completely different. For starters it was a completely different era. Secondly, you haven't even mentioned injuries/health. You do realize that you're digging here, right. Go post this in an NFL forum that's not Bills and see what kind of treatment you get. Then tell me where so I can go view it. Your entire take is ridiculous. Also, you've mentioned absolutely nothing about the expectations placed on him due to what we had to give up to get him or any analysis of how several of his peers, whom I've pointed out mostly haven't even started as many games and in most cases weren't even their team's #1 WRs, have performed better and provided their teams even more, and far more consistently I might add, and yet, Watkins is leaps and bounds beyond them. LOL I gotta tell ya, this place is a never-ending source of amusement. When Watkins starts posting at least top-10 WR numbers, which still won't be enough to justify us having selected him the way we did, unless he's top-2 or 3, then let's talk more. This nonsense of Watkins being elite right now when he A, can't stay on the field without significant injuries, or on the field at all and yet TBD for this season already, and has more games of doing nothing or next-to-nothing than he does 100-yard or even big games otherwise, is absurd. He finished 22nd last year wedged in between Doug Baldwin and Gary Barnidge, a TE, and in 2014 he finished 23rd between Vincent Jackson and Edelman, none of which anyone would even approach calling elite. Until that changes Watkins is closer to being a BUST because he can't do those things than he is to being called elite. I recall, distinctly, people, for four seasons here arguing how great Spiller was when it should have been obvious that he was nothing but a role-playing RB outta the gate. Should have. Naturally the highly paid brainiacs working at OBD are clueless on those sorts of things which is why we end up with players like Maybin, Manuel, and Spiller in the 1st round and why we use two 1st-rounders to get what was essentially a WR that made a living in college on plays that simply don't work in the NFL while expecting that either A, that they would for the first time work in the NFL, or B, that Watkins would butter his bread in ways that he did not in college. Either way, not worth trading up for, and again, that should have been obvious to anyone with above average analytical skills and a knowledge of football. Too bad we don't have anyone like that at OBD or if we do they've been tucked away in some cubicle and aren't listened to.
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 This is comical. For starters you're ignoring everything that anyone said about Watkins prior to the draft. The talk was all about how "just get Sammy the ball and he would do the rest." Has that happened? Short answer to help you along in figuring out the answer, no, he's been among the worst in YAC and ranked closer to 200th than the top. As to not having to put up elite numbers in order to be considered elite, ROFLMAO, that might be true for a Tasker type, but for WRs, I can't stop snickering. You can't possibly be serious. No wonder some of the opinions here with nonsense like that. It's funny, you're probably among those that insisted that Spiller was "special" and elite too. OJ was completely different. For starters it was a completely different era. Secondly, you haven't even mentioned injuries/health. You do realize that you're digging here, right. Go post this in an NFL forum that's not Bills and see what kind of treatment you get. Then tell me where so I can go view it. Your entire take is ridiculous. Also, you've mentioned absolutely nothing about the expectations placed on him due to what we had to give up to get him or any analysis of how several of his peers, whom I've pointed out mostly haven't even started as many games and in most cases weren't even their team's #1 WRs, have performed better and provided their teams even more, and far more consistently I might add, and yet, Watkins is leaps and bounds beyond them. LOL I gotta tell ya, this place is a never-ending source of amusement. When Watkins starts posting at least top-10 WR numbers, which still won't be enough to justify us having selected him the way we did, unless he's top-2 or 3, then let's talk more. This nonsense of Watkins being elite right now when he A, can't stay on the field without significant injuries, or on the field at all and yet TBD for this season already, and has more games of doing nothing or next-to-nothing than he does 100-yard or even big games otherwise, is absurd. He finished 22nd last year wedged in between Doug Baldwin and Gary Barnidge, a TE, and in 2014 he finished 23rd between Vincent Jackson and Edelman, none of which anyone would even approach calling elite. Until that changes Watkins is closer to being a BUST because he can't do those things than he is to being called elite. I recall, distinctly, people, for four seasons here arguing how great Spiller was when it should have been obvious that he was nothing but a role-playing RB outta the gate. Should have. Naturally the highly paid brainiacs working at OBD are clueless on those sorts of things which is why we end up with players like Maybin, Manuel, and Spiller in the 1st round and why we use two 1st-rounders to get what was essentially a WR that made a living in college on plays that simply don't work in the NFL while expecting that either A, that they would for the first time work in the NFL, or B, that Watkins would butter his bread in ways that he did not in college. Either way, not worth trading up for, and again, that should have been obvious to anyone with above average analytical skills and a knowledge of football. Too bad we don't have anyone like that at OBD or if we do they've been tucked away in some cubicle and aren't listened to. Again: outproduced every receiver not named Antonio Brown over the final 9 games of the 2016 season...even with the injuries that you want to say are limiting him. That's elite whether you like to admit it or not. I know, I know, he only had 100 yards in 5 of those 9 games, and therefore is inconsistent. Guess what: over that same time period, Antonio Brown had 100 yards in 5 of 9 games as well. Brown also scored 7 of his 10 receiving TDs on the season in 4 of those 9 games. Sammy scored 7 of his 9 total receiving TDs on the season in 5 of those 9 games. Brown had fewer than 80 receiving yards 3 times in those 9 games; Sammy had 80 or more receiving yards in 7 of those 9 games. The truth is, on a per-target basis (and the advanced numbers illustrate this rather clearly as I've shown you before), Sammy is as good as there is in the league. You can knock him for not being 100%, and that's relevant. To rail on his production without any recognition of context is the height of silliness. I guess that's why this place is a never-ending source of amusement, right? :cool:
Ronin Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Again: outproduced every receiver not named Antonio Brown over the final 9 games of the 2016 season...even with the injuries that you want to say are limiting him. That's elite whether you like to admit it or not. ROFLMAO Oh, I have no trouble admitting that. Name for me the great Ds he lit up? Here's the problem with your entire approach, you ignore everything else that I've argued. You won't admit that in the other arguments that I've made, like that he's terrible at YAC. He's hurt again with a much more significant injury than you or anyone else here is considering and still totally unproven in a game-day environment and that if his injuries strike again the only word that's going to be used to describe him, OK, maybe two, are SOFT and BUST. Otherwise, what about the other 20 games that feed into my "inconsistency" argument, you ignore those outright as if 9 games, really 6 in which he played well, mostly against not great Ds too, set the standard while the other 20 don't matter. Typical for posters here. I've said this before so it'll probably just go in one eye and out the other and be totally lost on you, but in his other 20 games that you didn't mention, and frankly, two of the 9 you cite, he's averaged barely over 50 ypg with one TD every 2-1/2 games with only four 100-yard games in those 20. If he can play like that this season the entire season, meaning besting every WR not named Antonio Brown, then we can talk more. But I suspect that he won't even post his usual mediocre 1,000 yards, will either miss many games or not be anything close to 100% in them. If it plays out that way, anyone calling him elite is going to look ignorant. Again, if not, then let's reconvene, but right now there's more baggage hanging over him in the injury dept. than there is at the unclaimed baggage terminal at JFK airport.
eball Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Aren't elite WRs supposed to rack up big stats against lesser defenses?
quinnearlysghost88 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 How much of Sammy's inconsistency in production is on Sammy and how much is on the game planning, a lack of WR depth, and instability at QB? Aren't elite WRs supposed to rack up big stats against lesser defenses? Right. If he didn't do well vs lesser Ds, we'd hear the argument that he can't even perform vs inferior competition.
26CornerBlitz Posted July 28, 2016 Author Posted July 28, 2016 How much of Sammy's inconsistency in production is on Sammy and how much is on the game planning, a lack of WR depth, and instability at QB? Right. If he didn't do well vs lesser Ds, we'd hear the argument that he can't even perform vs inferior competition. He has got to progress to the point where he calls the plays and also throws the ball to himself. Until then, he's a bust!
PromoTheRobot Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 The reason Watkins YAC is so bad is there is no where to run once you're in the end zone.
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) ROFLMAO Oh, I have no trouble admitting that. Name for me the great Ds he lit up? Here's the problem with your entire approach, you ignore everything else that I've argued. You won't admit that in the other arguments that I've made, like that he's terrible at YAC. He's hurt again with a much more significant injury than you or anyone else here is considering and still totally unproven in a game-day environment and that if his injuries strike again the only word that's going to be used to describe him, OK, maybe two, are SOFT and BUST. Otherwise, what about the other 20 games that feed into my "inconsistency" argument, you ignore those outright as if 9 games, really 6 in which he played well, mostly against not great Ds too, set the standard while the other 20 don't matter. Typical for posters here. You of all people have no place saying that others don't acknowledge your points, having routinely gloss over anything that doesn't fit your narrative. Why is he "terrible" at YAC? It may have something to do with the fact that he has the highest yards/target of any receiver in the NFL (11.02--nearly a full yard better than any other WR). It's also the same reason that Doug Baldwin has extremely low YAC (he had the 2nd highest yards/target in the league with 10.28)--if they're throwing you deep balls, the YAC opportunities are going to be few and far between; that's intuitively obvious to folks that have watched a set of downs in their lifetime. Meanwhile, and I know this whole idea of context should be ignored in your opinion lest we risk partaking in an actual honest evaluation, the WRs that lead the position in YAC like Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, and Jarvis Landry are on the low-end of yards/target. In fact, Jarvis Landry is dead last in the NFL in yards/target with 7.01. A moderate level of investigation would show you that the reason are more short-area targets. This isn't rocket science. It also feels an awful lot like "lack of YAC" is your crutch to keep this "Sammy's a bust" rant going. Why does it matter whether his yards come before or after the catch if he's producing more yards/target than any other player? In fact, someone who is looking through an honest lens might instead opine that if Sammy was billed as a YAC machine coming out of college, but is shredding teams with his ability as a deep threat, then that would more likely mean that he's got more to his game than some might've thought. As to ignoring his previous 20 games, again I'll point out to you (this has to be at least the 10th time I've said it--so again a little bit of honesty about who's ignoring who might be prudent) that the greatest predictor of WR success across the entire league is targets. When, exactly, did his targets increase? I've said this before so it'll probably just go in one eye and out the other and be totally lost on you, but in his other 20 games that you didn't mention, and frankly, two of the 9 you cite, he's averaged barely over 50 ypg with one TD every 2-1/2 games with only four 100-yard games in those 20. This part is extremely telling: it tells me that you either didn't read my response, didn't understand the content, or chose to ignore it. WR production ebbs and flows for every single receiver. For example, since the marked uptick in Sammy's targets that brought him closer to the norm in that department, he was far more consistent in terms of yardage production than Antonio Brown (so chosen because he is, IMO, the best WR in the game right now). I noted your point and responded to it in my previous post: I know, I know, he only had 100 yards in 5 of those 9 games, and therefore is inconsistent. Guess what: over that same time period, Antonio Brown had 100 yards in 5 of 9 games as well. Brown also scored 7 of his 10 receiving TDs on the season in 4 of those 9 games. Sammy scored 7 of his 9 total receiving TDs on the season in 5 of those 9 games. Brown had fewer than 80 receiving yards 3 times in those 9 games; Sammy had 80 or more receiving yards in 7 of those 9 games. Yet there you are, ignoring the fact that I addressed the very point you responded to me with in this post. Let me make my position on Watkins clear in one very easily-quoted-and-responded-to-point: WR production is very heavily correlated to targets, and once Sammy started receiving a target ratio similar to other bona fide #1 WRs, he outproduced the rest of the league (aside from Brown). On a per-target basis, he's been nothing short of elite, and we should expect that--should his uptick in targets hold for a full season of play--he'll continue to produce on part with the Browns of the league. Now, if you have anything in your arsenal that contradicts this point, I'll be happy to listen and respond. Until the, the ball's in your court. Be well. By the way, links supporting stats I've quoted for those that care: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTargets http://overthecap.com/yards-per-target-as-a-metric/ http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/yards-after-the-catch/2015/ Oh, and since I forgot to address it before, as to the great defenses he lit up: Sammy faced 3 (and only 3) of the top-10 pass defenses in the league in 2015---those being Houston (3), Dallas (5), and KC (9). His combined stat line in those games: 14 receptions, 351 yards, 3 TDs Edited July 28, 2016 by thebandit27
RalphOP83 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Just an update... Just saw Sammy at the Hamburg/OP LA Fitness playing basketball with a random collection of gym all stars. Kinda foolish if you ask me.
3rdand12 Posted July 29, 2016 Posted July 29, 2016 Again: outproduced every receiver not named Antonio Brown over the final 9 games of the 2016 season...even with the injuries that you want to say are limiting him. That's elite whether you like to admit it or not. I know, I know, he only had 100 yards in 5 of those 9 games, and therefore is inconsistent. Guess what: over that same time period, Antonio Brown had 100 yards in 5 of 9 games as well. Brown also scored 7 of his 10 receiving TDs on the season in 4 of those 9 games. Sammy scored 7 of his 9 total receiving TDs on the season in 5 of those 9 games. Brown had fewer than 80 receiving yards 3 times in those 9 games; Sammy had 80 or more receiving yards in 7 of those 9 games. The truth is, on a per-target basis (and the advanced numbers illustrate this rather clearly as I've shown you before), Sammy is as good as there is in the league. You can knock him for not being 100%, and that's relevant. To rail on his production without any recognition of context is the height of silliness. I guess that's why this place is a never-ending source of amusement, right? :cool: have i told you lately? I love you. No no not the funny business way Bandit. put that out of your mind right away. Your retorts make give me a chuckle. carry on Folks Aren't elite WRs supposed to rack up big stats against lesser defenses? depends on who is chucking the ball, and then why, i might suppose.
YoloinOhio Posted July 29, 2016 Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Just an update... Just saw Sammy at the Hamburg/OP LA Fitness playing basketball with a random collection of gym all stars. Kinda foolish if you ask me.Did you see Matthew Fairburn there? Do these reporters just follow Sammy around like paparazzi? @matthewfairburn Ran into Sammy Watkins tonight. Latest x-rays showed his foot is healed but still no timetable on practice return http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2016/07/bills_sammy_watkins_foot_healed_heading_into_camp_plays_pickup_basketball.html Edited July 29, 2016 by YoloinOhio
CommonCents Posted July 29, 2016 Posted July 29, 2016 People are still on the Watkins bashing train? A guy coming off a broken foot is out playing hoops and soon to be sitting out training camp. Sammy is a knucklehead, Boldin would have been a good mentor.
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