Jonathan Martin... Still Whining About Richie

[hondo in seattle]

A match made in heaven...

 

* Martin was mentally weaker/more sensitive than the typical football player.

 

* Incognito was a loudmouth with little sense of boundaries (this is what KW said about him).

 

While most players seem to like Richie, in this case Martin was the victim and Richie was wrong. Richie should have been wise & compassionate enough to see he was hurting another human being and backed off.

 

Dude, be fair. The guy was being interviewed. The interviewer asked the question.

The linked article above simply excerpts a portion of the interview to be controversial and manipulate the reader.

 

For your own benefit, you might consider to learn to be less easy to manipulate by media shills!

 

Here's the original article http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/the-quiet-redemption-of-jonathan-martin

He is being sought out and interviewed by a reporter for his work talking to school children about bullying. He is not approaching the media seeking an interview on the topic of the Dolphins or Cog. He doesn't even mention Incognito or refer by name to the "player who called him the N word to his face" until he is specifically asked by the reporter about the Dolphins and about Incognito, and his answer is much more nuanced than the excerpted quote:

While Martin thinks about the past and how it could be different, he won’t reach back and mess with it. He said he hasn’t tried to speak to Richie Incognito, one of the former Dolphins who was a main culprit in the bullying scandal.

“That’s another thing that’s convoluted,” Martin said after a pause and a heavy sigh. “Like I said in the Wells report, and like I’ve said before, at a certain level we were friends. We hung out. That’s fact. He’s got his own issues like I had issues with depression related to dealing with all their BS, but I don’t even know if Richie wants to be a bad person. Part of me thinks he just is because he’s allowed to be in the realm he occupies. It’s weird because we still have mutual friends. I have no desire to ever see or talk to him. I’ll get nothing from it. That’s in the past. I don’t know what his thoughts are and I don’t really care, honestly.”

 

Independent of Martin and what you think of him, some of Incognito's documented, factual behavior while with the Dolphins was IMO indefensible. This would include ringleading the harassment of an Assistant Trainer of Asian descent ( a relatively poorly paid and powerless position in a football team) and a female volunteer at a charity golf tournament. Most parents would say "those are bad and not how I want my kids to behave". Neither of these people fall within the realm of locker room banter with teammates by any stretch. It's also documented and admitted by Incognito that "he's got his own issues" with anger and depression, for which, to his very great credit, he has sought legitimate treatment and not the "country club center" variety either.

 

In the context of the article, it seems fairly clear to me that Martin is obliquely putting some blame on the Dolphins ("the realm he occupies") for having enabled Incognito:

Some may say that Martin wasn’t tough enough to play football and that players have to be bullies in order to survive such a violent sport. To that, Martin brought up his experience playing Stanford football. He said during his time there, everyone respected one another off the field.

“I’ve seen it first hand. It doesn’t need to be the way that it was in Miami,” Martin said. “People will put NFL players on a pedestal, but they’re still people. There’s all kinds of different personalities.

 

I like how Incognito plays and what he's done with the Bills and what he seems to have changed and made of himself, but it really isn't necessary to deny the bad behavior in his past or paint them as all the fault of "headcase Martin" in order to be a fan of Ritchie today. Incognito had a track record as a headcase stretching back to college and the team that drafted him (Rams. Reference Martz screaming on the sidelines "what is wrong with that F***er?").

 

Good post.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Martin is probably a bit disgusted that Richie was able to get back into the league and is now doing well for himself again. He on the other hand is now out of the league and the perception of him is that of being a soft, whistle-blower who couldn't take what goes on in a normal NFL locker room. I've been in a factory\manufacturing environment pretty much my whole adult life. People say things all the time. You either learn to be become quick witted and dish it out just as fast as they try to give it to you or you let them get under your skin. If at any point they see it is getting under your skin they will try to ride you that much more. Some people just aren't built for it. They can't take it.

 

If you go read the original article, I don't think that's the case at all. It's really not about Incognito at all until the reporter asks.

 

Keep in mind that Martin has opportunities that Incognito does not including a Stanford degree and the means/opportunity to attend law school if he chooses. He also had the opportunity to play for two contending football teams (49ers and Panthers) - why would that be if the "perception of him is of being a soft whistle blower who couldn't take what goes on in a normal NFL locker room"?

This thread is a microcosm of the entire Incognito-Martin event: people taking comments out of context, people speaking their minds and others taking moral high ground. Richie has turned a corner and some here can't stop talking about his words and texts (banter which Martin participated in voluntarily for months giving back as much as he took). His comments in this article are fine: basically saying "I don't care about Richie or what he is doing now". Maybe that is the approach he should have used when he was playing football.

 

Fair enough. Thing is, when you're charged with working very closely with someone, building a close relationship and taking feedback from them, "I don't care about you and what you say" is not very practical. You have to deal with it one way or another.

[C.Biscuit97]

Martin is a freakin head case! i wouldnt want any children taking any advice from him!

Yeah, that dude who played football at Stanford and NFL is such a worse person than you! I'm sure you are a better position in life than him.

 

Stop acting like RI wasn't a giant piece of crap before the Bills. The Mrtin incident wasn't his first bit of trouble. Dude was a POS that you won't want your sister around. Hopefully at 33, he finally grew up.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

a lot of the texts were just Wayans brothers style humor. This guy is trying to get speaking fees and a book out of it

 

If "this guy" is Martin, what evidence do you have to support the "speaking fees/book" idea? He's volunteering to talk to schoolkids about social isolation, bullying, and how there's hope for kids who are struggling with these things.

[3rdand12]

 

Dude, be fair. The guy was being interviewed. The interviewer asked the question.

The linked article above simply excerpts a portion of the interview to be controversial and manipulate the reader.

 

For your own benefit, you might consider to learn to be less easy to manipulate by media shills!

 

Here's the original article http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/the-quiet-redemption-of-jonathan-martin

He is being sought out and interviewed by a reporter for his work talking to school children about bullying. He is not approaching the media seeking an interview on the topic of the Dolphins or Cog. He doesn't even mention Incognito or refer by name to the "player who called him the N word to his face" until he is specifically asked by the reporter about the Dolphins and about Incognito, and his answer is much more nuanced than the excerpted quote:

While Martin thinks about the past and how it could be different, he won’t reach back and mess with it. He said he hasn’t tried to speak to Richie Incognito, one of the former Dolphins who was a main culprit in the bullying scandal.

“That’s another thing that’s convoluted,” Martin said after a pause and a heavy sigh. “Like I said in the Wells report, and like I’ve said before, at a certain level we were friends. We hung out. That’s fact. He’s got his own issues like I had issues with depression related to dealing with all their BS, but I don’t even know if Richie wants to be a bad person. Part of me thinks he just is because he’s allowed to be in the realm he occupies. It’s weird because we still have mutual friends. I have no desire to ever see or talk to him. I’ll get nothing from it. That’s in the past. I don’t know what his thoughts are and I don’t really care, honestly.”

 

Independent of Martin and what you think of him, some of Incognito's documented, factual behavior while with the Dolphins was IMO indefensible. This would include ringleading the harassment of an Assistant Trainer of Asian descent ( a relatively poorly paid and powerless position in a football team) and a female volunteer at a charity golf tournament. Most parents would say "those are bad and not how I want my kids to behave". Neither of these people fall within the realm of locker room banter with teammates by any stretch. It's also documented and admitted by Incognito that "he's got his own issues" with anger and depression, for which, to his very great credit, he has sought legitimate treatment and not the "country club center" variety either.

 

In the context of the article, it seems fairly clear to me that Martin is obliquely putting some blame on the Dolphins ("the realm he occupies") for having enabled Incognito:

Some may say that Martin wasn’t tough enough to play football and that players have to be bullies in order to survive such a violent sport. To that, Martin brought up his experience playing Stanford football. He said during his time there, everyone respected one another off the field.

“I’ve seen it first hand. It doesn’t need to be the way that it was in Miami,” Martin said. “People will put NFL players on a pedestal, but they’re still people. There’s all kinds of different personalities.

 

I like how Incognito plays and what he's done with the Bills and what he seems to have changed and made of himself, but it really isn't necessary to deny the bad behavior in his past or paint them as all the fault of "headcase Martin" in order to be a fan of Ritchie today. Incognito had a track record as a headcase stretching back to college and the team that drafted him (Rams. Reference Martz screaming on the sidelines "what is wrong with that F***er?").

Very thoughtful post, Hopeful.

I took no offense to the article or Martins words.

 

And having read quite a bit on Richie's re making of himself I have become a pretty big Fan of his.

 

some one is going to ask Cogs about this article. Lets hope he stays on the high road.

Edited May 15, 2016 by 3rdand12

[Marshawn's 20 bucks]

#1- Jonathan Martin spends time talking to schoolchildren about social isolation. which is a good thing. if children see somebody his size can be bullied and/or not feel good about themselves, than it can happen to anyone.

 

#2- the NFL has a workplace problem where bullies are encouraged and allowed to thrive. Hopefully that is getting better.

 

#3- Richie WAS a total piece of chit back then. it looks like he has learned from his mistake(s). Hopefully he continues behaving.

 

#4- Martin took richie's crap as a rookie, but said enough is enough when it continued in his 2nd season. Martin did nothing wrong.

I agree with these takes, add to number 2 that the coaching staff directed Ritchie to 'toughen Martin up.' The Phins bear a great deal of responsibility for this whole affair

[Hapless Bills Fan]

i thought about that also upon reading this yesterday, my first thought was that richie may have a difficult time restraining himself,and hopefully will. but if a fragile jackass like martin is doing this to bait richie, i hope richie stays above it.

 

If "Richie has a difficult time restraining himself" he hasn't learned as much from all the treatment/counseling he voluntarily undertook as one hopes.

 

There is nothing in the original article that would support the idea that Martin is "doing this to bait Richie". He was being interviewed at a volunteer school appearance and asked about his time with the Dolphins and about Incognito, as any on-the-ball-reporter would ask, and his actual answer is way more nuanced than the click-bait excerpt that is making the rounds.

 

As an aside, why do people (not wanting to pick on you, Dwight) allow themselves to be so easily manipulated by media sound bites?

[dwight in philly]

 

If "Richie has a difficult time restraining himself" he hasn't learned as much from all the treatment/counseling he voluntarily undertook as one hopes.

 

There is nothing in the original article that would support the idea that Martin is "doing this to bait Richie". He was being interviewed at a volunteer school appearance and asked about his time with the Dolphins and about Incognito, as any on-the-ball-reporter would ask, and his actual answer is way more nuanced than the click-bait excerpt that is making the rounds.

 

As an aside, why do people (not wanting to pick on you, Dwight) allow themselves to be so easily manipulated by media sound bites?

i really wasnt or dont, just my observation .

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I agree with these takes, add to number 2 that the coaching staff directed Ritchie to 'toughen Martin up.' The Phins bear a great deal of responsibility for this whole affair

 

This, I believe, is a missing piece often neglected. My personal opinion is that Incognito was made into a fall guy for the Dolphins organizational decisions and failure. Even if you take the viewpoint that the locker room is its own world with its own rules, IMO the Dolphins had a responsibility to maintain a decent working environment for their staff (trainers etc) and for volunteers involved with their "brand" (eg at charity tournament featuring Dolphins players). The Dolphins at best enabled and at worst encouraged/supported Incognito and then hung him out to dry.

i really wasnt or dont, just my observation .

 

Sorry, Dwight, but when you speculate that Martin is "doing it to bait Incognito" when the original article doesn't support that view at all, it does really seem like you're being manipulated by media click bait (the provocative out of context quote that's making the rounds). Again, I don't want to seem singling you out because there's a lot of it around. You're certainly entitled to your personal opinion of Martin, too, that's no the issue I'm trying to highlight.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Dude, be fair. The guy was being interviewed. The interviewer asked the question. The linked article above simply excerpts a portion of the interview to be controversial and manipulate the reader.

(...)

 

I like how Incognito plays and what he's done with the Bills and what he seems to have changed and made of himself, but it really isn't necessary to deny the bad behavior in his past or paint them as all the fault of "headcase Martin" in order to be a fan of Ritchie today. Incognito had a track record as a headcase stretching back to college and the team that drafted him (Rams. Reference Martz screaming on the sidelines "what is wrong with that F***er?").

 

 

Very thoughtful post, Hopeful.

I took no offense to the article or Martins words.

 

And having read quite a bit on Richie's re making of himself I have become a pretty big Fan of his.

 

some one is going to ask Cogs about this article. Lets hope he stays on the high road.

 

Thanks, and yep, agree on all points. I have become a fan of Richie for his play and for his work confronting his stuff and trying to change, and I hope he does stay on the high road, because there's really no reason for him to go off: "That was then, this is now, I'm just trying to work hard and help our team win, Move On" is all that needs to be said.

[Ramblin' Rob]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/14/jonathan-martin-incognito-is-a-bad-person-because-hes-allowed-to-be-in-the-realm-he-occupies/

 

Let it go bro, just let it go.

 

 

IMHO, martin is just a wuss. if anybody has played sports, or been remotely connected to it , it is not a PC environment. it appears his persona is not conducive to being in a lockeroom. i think richie looks better all the time as time moves on.

 

 

Hopefully Ritchie doesn't tweet, talk, or comment on this at all. Martin may be baiting him to comment.

 

^^^The meathead comments that make being a football fan, and a Buffalo Bills fan embarrassing at times. J.Martin was suffering from depression, and could not handle the abuse Richie doled out. Richie, the same guy who is a pro-bowler, but regularly released (mid season, once) or not retained for a second contract until now, a. ll because he was an a$$#*(%.

Let's take it to the next level of thinking...the male brain does not reach full emotional maturity until the mid twenties. Richie was supposed to me a mentor, not a tormentor. Richie seems to have turned the corner, and hopefully he does not backslide. Same with J. Martin.

 

Now, carry on with your drunk dizzy bat races, piledriving each other through tables, and falling from the 300 level on to fans below.

He was interviewed after doing a presentation on social isolation of kids. Of course the question regarding Richie is going to come up, if the reporter is any good. Richie is fine and Martin did nothing wrong in answering the question. Richie was a real ass with Martin and Martin didn't handle it the way some would. Richie should have seen this and backed off. But, nope he kept on with Martin til Martin said "enough". I wasn't gonna reply til I saw your " fragile jackass " comment. Really!?!? No baiting involved, he answered the question as asked of him. It's pretty easy to be a keyboard tough guy, isn't it?

 

 

A match made in heaven...

 

* Martin was mentally weaker/more sensitive than the typical football player.

 

* Incognito was a loudmouth with little sense of boundaries (this is what KW said about him).

 

While most players seem to like Richie, in this case Martin was the victim and Richie was wrong. Richie should have been wise & compassionate enough to see he was hurting another human being and backed off.

 

Good post.

 

 

 

If you go read the original article, I don't think that's the case at all. It's really not about Incognito at all until the reporter asks.

 

Keep in mind that Martin has opportunities that Incognito does not including a Stanford degree and the means/opportunity to attend law school if he chooses. He also had the opportunity to play for two contending football teams (49ers and Panthers) - why would that be if the "perception of him is of being a soft whistle blower who couldn't take what goes on in a normal NFL locker room"?

 

Fair enough. Thing is, when you're charged with working very closely with someone, building a close relationship and taking feedback from them, "I don't care about you and what you say" is not very practical. You have to deal with it one way or another.

 

Thank you to these three reasoned fans! ^^^

[3rdand12]

 

 

 

Thanks, and yep, agree on all points. I have become a fan of Richie for his play and for his work confronting his stuff and trying to change, and I hope he does stay on the high road, because there's really no reason for him to go off: "That was then, this is now, I'm just trying to work hard and help our team win, Move On" is all that needs to be said.

Yes , i should have clarified. I became a fan of his person before he played a snap.

This is from someone who thought he was piece of crap.

 

And then he started playing ball !

I can say his behaviour was a mess till therapy and meds etc.

He has come to far to get sucked into the noise

[Freddie's Dead]

Those who call Martin a "willing participant", and therefore conclude there was no way he was bullied, do not understand the dynamic at play here. One of the things a bullied kid will do is try to befriend the bully. The bully will often use that "friendship" to pile on even more degradation. All Martin did here was answer a question. No whining involved.

[Ramblin' Rob]

Those who call Martin a "willing participant", and therefore conclude there was no way he was bullied, do not understand the dynamic at play here. One of the things a bullied kid will do is try to befriend the bully. The bully will often use that "friendship" to pile on even more degradation. All Martin did here was answer a question. No whining involved.

 

You are being kind. It is an embarrassing topic, and an especially embarrassing thread title. I am proud of Richie and his progress, and think he would agree with my sentiments.

[dwight in philly]

 

 

 

 

 

^^^The meathead comments that make being a football fan, and a Buffalo Bills fan embarrassing at times. J.Martin was suffering from depression, and could not handle the abuse Richie doled out. Richie, the same guy who is a pro-bowler, but regularly released (mid season, once) or not retained for a second contract until now, a. ll because he was an a$$#*(%.

Let's take it to the next level of thinking...the male brain does not reach full emotional maturity until the mid twenties. Richie was supposed to me a mentor, not a tormentor. Richie seems to have turned the corner, and hopefully he does not backslide. Same with J. Martin.

 

Now, carry on with your drunk dizzy bat races, piledriving each other through tables, and falling from the 300 level on to fans below.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you to these three reasoned fans! ^^^

i wish i was as smart and introspective as you.....

[NoSaint]

Those who call Martin a "willing participant", and therefore conclude there was no way he was bullied, do not understand the dynamic at play here. One of the things a bullied kid will do is try to befriend the bully. The bully will often use that "friendship" to pile on even more degradation. All Martin did here was answer a question. No whining involved.

That's all been beaten to death 100 times over - Your last two sentences are the big thing today. The quote wasn't whiny, it wasn't trying to bait anyone, it wasn't going out of his way to create drama.... Martin was asked a question and he gave a pretty straightforward and even handed response.

[Doc]

Have any other players come out during/after their playing career and claimed they were bullied by a teammate or teammates?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Have any other players come out during/after their playing career and claimed they were bullied by a teammate or teammates?

 

I think the closest would be Raiders ST/3rd string TE Marcus Williams, who was assaulted and seriously injured by Bill Romanowski in 2003 and "broke the code" by suing him after Romanowski was fined 1 game check by the NFL for the incident. Romanowski was cut, ostensibly due to multiple concussions.

 

Williams won the lawsuit for a relatively small sum of money (1 year salary + medical expenses), but never played again.

[Passepartout]

Martin needs to learn to redeem himself. If Richie has done it, so can he.

[3rdand12]

Martin needs to learn to redeem himself. If Richie has done it, so can he.

I thought that was the idea behind the article ?!