Acantha Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) Divide NYS I saw this probably about 9 months ago and forgot about it, but I was reminded about it reading the housing thread. From the site: We would form Two Autonomous Regions the New Amsterdam Region (upstate) and the New York Region (downstate) alongside a token state government to comply with the US Constitution. The token NYS government that remains would have about the same power as the Queen of England! Because we are forming regions not a new state or moving counties between states; Congress can be legally bypassed. If NYS Legislature fails to act, this plan also has the option to bypass the NYS Legislature; because every twenty years the people of NYS get to vote on whether to hold a NY State Constitutional Convention. If we vote YES on the NYS Convention, Delegates are elected for the Convention the following November. The Convention can then submit an amendment to divide NY State into regions with token state government directly to the voters. The next time the Convention vote will be held is Nov 2017. Our autonomous regions method is more likely to succeed! I haven't lived in NY since I was a kid, so really don't have much an opinion, but I am curious about he opinions of those on the board. Possible? Good idea? Pointless? I know it's not a new idea to spit up the state into two separate states, but this is the first time I've heard about going this route. There's a lot of info out there about how this has to happen to make it all work out legally, etc..., and you can question it to death, but I'm just curious about the concept overall and whether people would be for it. Edited May 13, 2016 by Acantha
PromoTheRobot Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 Well this would be a good way to find out if Buffalo really is supporting NYC with their taxes or visa versa. A big hint might be if Downstate is in favor of this.
Acantha Posted May 13, 2016 Author Posted May 13, 2016 Well this would be a good way to find out if Buffalo really is supporting NYC with their taxes or visa versa. A big hint might be if Downstate is in favor of this. I don't think any of the state politicians would be in favor. Even if it makes sense, nobody wants to lose what they have. Back when I originally saw this there was an article about it I read that was full of people from the city who were throwing out insults left and right, but most of them ended up saying that the rest of NY would crumble without the revenue of the city. Funny though that they wouldn't be for the idea if they think that's true.
Marv's Neighbor Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Many states have the same situation. Texas, California and Virginia come to mind. It's a great theory born out of a lot of people's frustrations, but unfortunately the areas that want to break away can't match the $$ and votes of the places they're trying to escape from, so nothing usually changes.
Acantha Posted May 13, 2016 Author Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) Many states have the same situation. Texas, California and Virginia come to mind. It's a great theory born out of a lot of people's frustrations, but unfortunately the areas that want to break away can't match the $$ and votes of the places they're trying to escape from, so nothing usually changes. I don't really think many other states come close to the situation that New York has. California has LA, San Diego, San Jose, and San Fran. It's state with many big cities and suburbs. Similar in Texas with Houston, San Antonio, Dallas/Fort Worth, Austin and El Paso. VA isn't even close. I think Illinois is probably the closest, but even there Chicago has about 2.5 million more residents than the next biggest city. New York City has over 8 million more people than the next biggest city, and about 7 million more than the next 10 cities combined. It really sticks out. One of the things I'm most curious about is your last point. Would NYC try to stop it? My sense is that they are high enough on themselves that they should be in the front of the action demanding their own government that doesn't have deal with "Upstate". Edited May 13, 2016 by Acantha
sodbuster Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 I don't really think many other states come close to the situation that New York has. California has LA, San Diego, San Jose, and San Fran. It's state with many big cities and suburbs. Similar in Texas with Houston, San Antonio, Dallas/Fort Worth, Austin and El Paso. VA isn't even close. I think Illinois is probably the closest, but even there Chicago has about 2.5 million more residents than the next biggest city. New York City has over 8 million more people than the next biggest city, and about 7 million more than the next 10 cities combined. It really sticks out. One of the things I'm most curious about is your last point. Would NYC try to stop it? My sense is that they are high enough on themselves that they should be in the front of the action demanding their own government that doesn't have deal with "Upstate". They don't "deal with upstate" as it is. Any candid state politician will tell you that they're treated like junior partners by downstaters, and when local government officials from up here attend statewide summits, they're basically Sat down at the kids table with a box of crayons. Just ask Joe Morelle, they guy who was the favorite for Silver's vacant speakership, before it became obvious that downstate Dems weren't going to let that happen.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 Just merge lower NYS with Connecticut. I thought that was settled in 1683. Heck, I may even be living in CT's Western claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Western_Reserve
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 Just merge lower NYS with Connecticut. I was thinking they deserve new jersey. If NY were to ever pull off a miracle and split, it might be the only possible reason I'm still here in 15 years.
May Day 10 Posted May 16, 2016 Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) Well this would be a good way to find out if Buffalo really is supporting NYC with their taxes or visa versa. A big hint might be if Downstate is in favor of this. From what I hear.... I think we gain more from downstate than visa-versa. I dont subscribe that we "support" NYC... but NYC is a rather large political vacuum for State Politics. I think a better/more productive plan to try first is the whole streamlining Erie (and Niagara) County thing. Scrap all the redundant layers and build it more aerodynamic from the top down. I'm intrigued by the whole secede from NYS thing... but we would need an economic driver. I would love it if we legalized weed (with state tax) as well as casinos and prostitution in Niagara Falls. Maybe with streamlined government and new revenues (and more if/when the Canadian Dollar rebounds) we can be a pretty sustainable/viable state. With lower taxes, perhaps we can land/grow some whales as far as fortune 100-500 companies go. Edited May 16, 2016 by May Day 10
Acantha Posted May 16, 2016 Author Posted May 16, 2016 From what I hear.... I think we gain more from downstate than visa-versa. I dont subscribe that we "support" NYC... but NYC is a rather large political vacuum for State Politics. I think a better/more productive plan to try first is the whole streamlining Erie (and Niagara) County thing. Scrap all the redundant layers and build it more aerodynamic from the top down. I'm intrigued by the whole secede from NYS thing... but we would need an economic driver. I would love it if we legalized weed (with state tax) as well as casinos and prostitution in Niagara Falls. Maybe with streamlined government and new revenues (and more if/when the Canadian Dollar rebounds) we can be a pretty sustainable/viable state. With lower taxes, perhaps we can land/grow some whales as far as fortune 100-500 companies go. Personally, I don't think it has as much to do with one area supporting the other area. I just think it comes down to what works for one (an area less than 500 sq mi with over 9 million people) isn't going to work for the other (smaller cities, large areas of agriculture). I think any fear about separating the two is unfounded. There are plenty of states with similar profiles to NYS w/out NYC that manage just fine. NYS has plenty going for it, and I do agree that if you get rid of the ridiculous taxes, businesses will come back (though probably not in a huge dramatic way like proponents of this split are probably hoping).
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