C.Biscuit97 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Actually what people inside or outside of Buffalo think is irrelevant to me. There is a plausible argument to be made that he will be better to have than either this year. Which to me is the most important thing! I for one don't believe there is a lot of room for growth with either one of those guys, Taylor is different. He has potential to improve an awful lot this year IMO. Remember, Palmer couldn't get a job not so long ago, and is what 38 years old. I'm just not a Dalton guy, he's Alex Smith to me at best. Those guys will always come up short due to a lack of talent getting the ball down field. JMO In 5 less seasons, Dalton has 18 less tds than Smith. Very lazy comparison. Once Taylor has made the playoffs 5 times and had 3 or more seasons of 25 or more tds, let's talk about him being better than Dalton. Dalton is criminally underrated and might have been a SB qb last year minus an injury. He's been in the league for 6 years. How much better can he get? And getting the ball downfield is cute and all ... If you can execute with a shortened field. Unfortunately, Tyrod has done nothing but prove he can't do that. To compare him to Palmer and Dalton is silly. Taylor can certainly improve. But to say he is better than proven guys who won games with their arms and have been to multiple playoffs like Dalton and Palmer at this point is the definition of a homer.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 In 5 less seasons, Dalton has 18 less tds than Smith. Very lazy comparison. Once Taylor has made the playoffs 5 times and had 3 or more seasons of 25 or more tds, let's talk about him being better than Dalton. Dalton is criminally underrated and might have been a SB qb last year minus an injury. Taylor can certainly improve. But to say he is better than proven guys who won games with their arms and have been to multiple playoffs like Dalton and Palmer at this point is the definition of a homer. I don't have him above those guys but he's in the ascending tier with Carr, Bridgewater, Winston, Mariota, and Bortles. He's shown signs of being on the rise. Tannehill was in this position last year and regressed. There are no guarantees that all of those guys continue to grow but so far, so good.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) I don't have him above those guys but he's in the ascending tier with Carr, Bridgewater, Winston, Mariota, and Bortles. He's shown signs of being on the rise. Tannehill was in this position last year and regressed. There are no guarantees that all of those guys continue to grow but so far, so good.I'd have Carr, Winston, and Bortles (though he could be a good stats, bad team guy) ahead of him right now. I've never been a Tannehill fan. Honestly, I like guys who win games with their arms. TT certainly hasn't shown that enough. We would struggle to pass for 150 yards fair too often. That's a problem in today's NFL. Taylor certainly can get there and can be a better qb with worse numbers. But we were arguably the most basic passing offense in the NFL and it's hard to place a guy that high right now. If Taylor can win games with his arm, he will get paid a lot of money and our team will be in great shape. IMO, he is surrounded by a ton of weapons. Edited May 18, 2016 by C.Biscuit97
metzelaars_lives Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) He's been in the league for 6 years. How much better can he get? And getting the ball downfield is cute and all ... If you can execute with a shortened field. Unfortunately, Tyrod has done nothing but prove he can't do that. To compare him to Palmer and Dalton is silly.You know full well he's been in the league for five seasons. And this continued narrative of yours that he should have been just as good as a guy who started the previous four seasons is laughable. Aaron Rodgers wasn't as good in his first year as he was in his third. You might be the only person in the whole world who doesn't think Tyrod Taylor had a good season for a first year starter. If he was a rookie, he walks away with the rookie of the year. You act like he definitely already hit his ceiling, there's no room for improvement and it should be obvious to everyone else that he's bound to regress. Why? What is wrong with you? Edited May 18, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
Gugny Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 You know full well he's been in the league for five seasons. And this continued narrative of yours that he should have been just as good as a guy who started the previous four seasons is laughable. Aaron Rodgers wasn't as good in his first year as he was in his third. You might be the only person in the whole world who doesn't think Tyrod Taylor had a good season for a first year starter. If he was a rookie, he walks away with the rookie of the year. You act like he definitely already hit his ceiling, there's no room for improvement and it should be obvious to everyone else that he's bound to regress. Why? What is wrong with you? Aaron Rodgers threw for 4,000 yards and 28 TD in his first season as a starter. He threw for under 4K, but still had 28 TD in his third season.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) In 5 less seasons, Dalton has 18 less tds than Smith. Very lazy comparison. Once Taylor has made the playoffs 5 times and had 3 or more seasons of 25 or more tds, let's talk about him being better than Dalton. Dalton is criminally underrated and might have been a SB qb last year minus an injury. Taylor can certainly improve. But to say he is better than proven guys who won games with their arms and have been to multiple playoffs like Dalton and Palmer at this point is the definition of a homer. I'm not sure why you use only TDs and believe it to be sufficient. Of course Dalton will have greater counting stats, his TEAM throws the ball a lot more. Passer Rating (last 5 years) Dalton 80,87,88,83,106 Smith 91,104,89,93,95 Smith has been a more efficient passer 4 of the last 5 years. You seem to be a fan of QB record. I think it is a TEAM game and that the players and pro bowlers around you make a difference. But, to use your logic, Let's not anoint Dalton a SB QB until he improves his 0-4 playoff record. Smith has an average annual salary of 17M and Dalton 16M. I think they are at least in the same neighborhood as players and it is not a lazy comparison. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. As for your view of Taylor, of course those guys have accomplished more than Taylor who has 14 career starts. In my view, a certain amount of forecasting is required in serious analysis about who you would want as your QB for 2016. Otherwise, just line them up from top to bottom with their counting stats. Peyton is still #1. Look bud, I can take the average stats for Taylor and Dalton per start for their careers, and they are nearly identical. Yards per game, TDs etc. No, Taylor hasn't been to the playoffs 5x I'll give you that. That's kind of hard to do when you've started 14 games. Taylor obviously is a vastly superior runner and deep thrower. You want to go all career stats and team W/L for your guy- that's fine. That's your prerogative. I'm saying I wouldn't trade Taylor even up for either one of those guys (Dalton or Smith) for this coming season 2016. Paying those guys 16-17 million compared to what TT is being paid is also another factor to consider. You say you like guys to win games with their passing, and that we struggled to get 150 yards. (queue garbage time argument) But, Dalton has thrown for 18,000 yards in 77 starts for 233/game and Taylor in 14 starts has 230/gm. If you throw in a 40 yard difference in legs between them, and more Pro Bowlers for the Bengals. It is not crazy or lazy to say you want Taylor going forward. Yes, he needs to improve his passing into the middle and lead his team on a couple 4QC. The good thing he has the POTENTIAL to accomplish those things. He is younger, a better athlete, throws a better deep ball and I wouldn't trade him for Dalton. IMHO Edited May 18, 2016 by The Thurmanator
metzelaars_lives Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) Aaron Rodgers threw for 4,000 yards and 28 TD in his first season as a starter. He threw for under 4K, but still had 28 TD in his third season. OK Tyrod Taylor threw for 20 in essentially the same situation. Look at Aaron Rodgers' progression from his first season as a starter to his third season as a starter. No one is saying he is Aaron Rodgers but to think that Taylor can't improve on his first season as a starter goes against all logic and reason. He WAS a top 15 QB in the NFL last season. Statistically, he was a top 10 QB in the NFL last season almost any way you dice it. To say, "OK let's see him do it again, some of his numbers may have been inflated by an inordinate number of deep balls that he hit on, let's see him improve on his intermediate passing, etc." is all fair game. To rank him 20th because some of the guys he performed better than last season have done it longer is TOTALLY fair. But to rank him 30th is asinine and you know it. Nonetheless, your crusade continues. Edited May 18, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
Gugny Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 OK Tyrod Taylor threw for 20 in essentially the same situation. Look at Aaron Rodgers' progression from his first season as a starter to his third season as a starter. No one is saying he is Aaron Rodgers but to think that Taylor can't improve on his first season as a starter goes against all logic and reason. He WAS a top 15 QB in the NFL last season. Statistically, he was a top 10 QB in the NFL last season almost any way you dice it. To say, "OK let's see him do it again, some of his numbers may have been inflated by an inordinate number of deep balls that he hit on, let's see him improve on his intermediate passing, etc." is all fair game. To rank him 20th because some of the guys he performed better than last season have done it longer is TOTALLY fair. But to rank him 30th is asinine and you know it. Nonetheless, your crusade continues. I am not on a crusade, Metz. The topic keeps coming up and I chime in with relevant observations, statistics and opinions. I have not started one thread about our QB situation, nor will I. I haven't shared my opinions about our QB situation in any thread not related to that topic. So your crusade label is incorrect, sir. I ranked him 30th based on what I've seen from him and what I've seen from all of the other QBs on the list. I stand by it. I hope to God I'm wrong ... but I firmly believe I'm right.
metzelaars_lives Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) I am not on a crusade, Metz. The topic keeps coming up and I chime in with relevant observations, statistics and opinions. I have not started one thread about our QB situation, nor will I. I haven't shared my opinions about our QB situation in any thread not related to that topic. So your crusade label is incorrect, sir. I ranked him 30th based on what I've seen from him and what I've seen from all of the other QBs on the list. I stand by it. I hope to God I'm wrong ... but I firmly believe I'm right. So you have "SEEN" that Brock Osweiler is better than Tyrod Taylor? That Teddy Bridgewater is better than Tyrod Taylor? Tyrod Taylor played more games than Osweiler last season and he WAS BETTER. There literally is not one statistic that Bridgewater was better than Taylor in last season. I would take Mariota over Taylor if I'm building a franchise but Taylor was better last season. Period. As if Mariota had the exact same season as Taylor last year, you'd be like "now that guy sucks. And not only does he suck but there's no chance of him improving." In what universe is Colin Kaepernick better than Taylor right now? Or based on what you "SAW" last season? Hence, the crusade accusation. I just don't understand what you're seeing when you watch a football game. We have had bad QB play for SO long and then finally last season we get solid QB play and your stance is "no, that is actually even worse than what we've had." It's an insane stance. Edited May 18, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
Kirby Jackson Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) So you have "SEEN" that Brock Osweiler is better than Tyrod Taylor? That Teddy Bridgewater is better than Tyrod Taylor? Tyrod Taylor played more games than Osweiler last season and he WAS BETTER. There literally is not one statistic that Bridgewater was better than Taylor in last season. I would take Mariota over Taylor if I'm building a franchise but Taylor was better last season. Period. As if Mariota had the exact same season as Taylor last year, you'd be like "now that guy sucks. And not only does he suck but there's no chance of him improving." In what universe is Colin Kaepernick better than Taylor right now? Or based on what you "SAW" last season? Hence, the crusade accusation. I just don't understand what you're seeing when you watch a football game. We have had bad QB play for SO long and then finally last season we get solid QB play and your stance is "no, that is actually even worse than what we've had." It's an insane stance. Don't forget this guy!! http://gph.is/1icTj3Y Edited May 18, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
metzelaars_lives Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Don't forget this guy!! http://gph.is/1icTj3Y Or this guy...
metzelaars_lives Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) Look, if you polled 1,000 analysts, sportswriters, broadcasters, coaches, former players, etc., zero of them would say that EJ Manuel is better than Tyrod Taylor. Zero of them would have Tyrod Taylor ranked as low as the 30th best starting QB in the NFL. Zero. We're not the crazy ones dude. You don't know something that no one else does. You could even predict that he will be the 30th best QB next season. But to say that, based on last season and where everyone stands right now, that he is the 30th best QB in the NFL- you can't say that. Like you can't. It's not reality. Edited May 18, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
Kirby Jackson Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Look, if you polled 1,000 analysts, sportswriters, broadcasters, coaches, former players, etc., zero of them would say that EJ Manuel is better than Tyrod Taylor. Zero of them would have Tyrod Taylor ranked as low as the 30th best starting QB in the NFL. Zero. We're not the crazy ones dude. You don't know something that no one else does. You could even say that you predict that he will be the 30th best QB next season. But to say that, based on last season and where everyone stands right now, that he is the 30th best QB in the NFL- you can't say that. Like you can't. If you called the Broncos and said, "Hey, we will offer you Tyrod Taylor for Mark Sanchez" what do you think that they would say? It's okay to be skeptical on him but it's not okay to have him below Mark Sanchez.
Gugny Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Look, if you polled 1,000 analysts, sportswriters, broadcasters, coaches, former players, etc., zero of them would say that EJ Manuel is better than Tyrod Taylor. Zero of them would have Tyrod Taylor ranked as low as the 30th best starting QB in the NFL. Zero. We're not the crazy ones dude. You don't know something that no one else does. You could even predict that he will be the 30th best QB next season. But to say that, based on last season and where everyone stands right now, that he is the 30th best QB in the NFL- you can't say that. Like you can't. It's not reality. I don't recall calling anyone crazy ... or criticizing anyone in any way, shape or form ... for disagreeing with me. Primarily because I haven't done it. I'm sorry that my opinion of Tyrod Taylor (as a quarterback) hurts your feelings so much. It's just a game and I promise, Metz, you'll be okay.
metzelaars_lives Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) I don't recall calling anyone crazy ... or criticizing anyone in any way, shape or form ... for disagreeing with me. Primarily because I haven't done it. I'm sorry that my opinion of Tyrod Taylor (as a quarterback) hurts your feelings so much. It's just a game and I promise, Metz, you'll be okay. It doesn't hurt my feelings whatsoever. It baffles me that a grown man, who loves football so much that he dedicates a healthy portion of his day every day to a website dedicated solely to football; a man who is otherwise able to string together cognitive thoughts and complete sentences and even has a knack for grammar, holds an opinion on football that is so utterly preposterous that he is literally the only one in the world to hold such an opinion. In fact, my only logical explanation for the things you say is that you don't really mean it; that you dug such a hole for yourself that you can't turn back and stubbornly insist on sticking to your guns no matter how ridiculous you sound. Gugny, you stated that you are more skeptical about the Bills' QB situation now than you were in 1985. Words can't even describe how ridiculous of an opinion that is to have. It's almost factually incorrect. Edited May 18, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
26CornerBlitz Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 @TodaysPigskin Where did the #NYGiants, #Packers and #Raiders' quarterbacks rank on @WilliamsonNFL's Top 20 QB rankings? https://t.co/Lvdc40AuEG The next five: Marcus Mariota Blake Bortles Teddy Bridgewater Kirk Cousins Tyrod Taylor
Gugny Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 @TodaysPigskin Where did the #NYGiants, #Packers and #Raiders' quarterbacks rank on @WilliamsonNFL's Top 20 QB rankings? https://t.co/Lvdc40AuEG The next five: Marcus Mariota Blake Bortles Teddy Bridgewater Kirk Cousins Tyrod Taylor This is dangerously close to being utterly preposterous.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 This is dangerously close to being utterly preposterous. Hmmm? Gugny's opinion vs. that of Matt Williamson....Tough call here.
metzelaars_lives Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 This is dangerously close to being utterly preposterous. 25 is definitely lower than almost everyone would have him. But it's not outrageous. 30th is outrageous. Saying that the Bills' QB situation is worse than Bruce Mathison/Vince Ferragamo is outrageous. Ask Matt Williamson who he'd rank higher, EJ Manuel or Tyrod Taylor.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 25 is definitely lower than almost everyone would have him. But it's not outrageous. 30th is outrageous. Saying that the Bills' QB situation is worse than Bruce Mathison/Vince Ferragamo is outrageous. Ask Matt Williamson who he'd rank higher, EJ Manuel or Tyrod Taylor. I have him in that tier with the guys starting at about 14 on that list and going to 25 (he is definitely higher than Tannehill for me). 24 is as low as I think that you can rank him and still keep a straight face. He has him lower than I would but still above Osweiler, Sanchez, RG, Jets QB, Kaepernick, Bradford and Goff.
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