3rdand12 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 It's been something alright. Lot of hardheaded gillisllie fans here. i think you mispelled that I too think McCoy will have a big year 2016. Looking forward to it. I might guess the running game will have very good season, even though teams know it's coming !
billsfan89 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 I think this could be Shady's last year with the team. He is a very good player but he always seems to get banged up in recent years. His guaranteed money ends after this season so cutting him would be fairly simple after this season. And with Gilmore and TT needing new deals they could really need the 8 million in cap space, they could also have a good RB in Karlos waiting in the wings. I think that he will still give the team good production but he likely won't be worth the huge cap commitment and I don't think he would restructure his deal to stay with the team. I think they get a solid year out of him this season and then trade or cut him, mainly because of how strapped the team could be in retaining key pieces.
eball Posted May 6, 2016 Author Posted May 6, 2016 I think this could be Shady's last year with the team. He is a very good player but he always seems to get banged up in recent years. His guaranteed money ends after this season so cutting him would be fairly simple after this season. And with Gilmore and TT needing new deals they could really need the 8 million in cap space, they could also have a good RB in Karlos waiting in the wings. I think that he will still give the team good production but he likely won't be worth the huge cap commitment and I don't think he would restructure his deal to stay with the team. I think they get a solid year out of him this season and then trade or cut him, mainly because of how strapped the team could be in retaining key pieces. With all due respect, once again, you are ignoring the premise of the original question -- is Shady's value commensurate with his cap number THIS season? If you want to talk about 2017, the Bills would only save $1M on the cap by releasing McCoy ($8.875M cap figure vs. $7.875M dead money). It is extremely unlikely they make that sort of a move unless he suffers a career threatening injury.
nucci Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 I think this could be Shady's last year with the team. He is a very good player but he always seems to get banged up in recent years. His guaranteed money ends after this season so cutting him would be fairly simple after this season. And with Gilmore and TT needing new deals they could really need the 8 million in cap space, they could also have a good RB in Karlos waiting in the wings. I think that he will still give the team good production but he likely won't be worth the huge cap commitment and I don't think he would restructure his deal to stay with the team. I think they get a solid year out of him this season and then trade or cut him, mainly because of how strapped the team could be in retaining key pieces. as eball stated...it will cost more to cut after this season and why do you think this team will be strapped to retain key players?
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 McCoy is typically one of the top 3 players on the field. Anyone who denies that has an agenda.
JohnC Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 With all due respect, once again, you are ignoring the premise of the original question -- is Shady's value commensurate with his cap number THIS season? If you want to talk about 2017, the Bills would only save $1M on the cap by releasing McCoy ($8.875M cap figure vs. $7.875M dead money). It is extremely unlikely they make that sort of a move unless he suffers a career threatening injury. The best way to get more value out of Shady is to improve the right side of the line so it is better balanced. Without a doubt he is a top tier back who can make plays even when there is not much room to maneuver. Also, our running game is more essential for a successful offense than it is for most teams. So it is critical that the right side of the line is strengthened. I'm a believer in TT. But I don't think he is the type of qb who is going to be a prolific passer. Getting a good running game going with McCoy and the other backs will help our qb play. That is another aspect where McCoy's presence has a positive effect for the other skill players on the offense. Having other backs to rotate with McCoy will enhance McCoy's production and value to the offense. If he can stay relatively healthy for the next couple of years then I believe we will have gotten good value from his acquisition. In hindsight would I have traded for him and then given him an enhanced contract? No. It is the new contract that he was given when he came to the Bills that gives me pause.
Bill from NYC Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 (edited) The best way to get more value out of Shady is to improve the right side of the line so it is better balanced. Without a doubt he is a top tier back who can make plays even when there is not much room to maneuver. Also, our running game is more essential for a successful offense than it is for most teams. So it is critical that the right side of the line is strengthened. I'm a believer in TT. But I don't think he is the type of qb who is going to be a prolific passer. Getting a good running game going with McCoy and the other backs will help our qb play. That is another aspect where McCoy's presence has a positive effect for the other skill players on the offense. Having other backs to rotate with McCoy will enhance McCoy's production and value to the offense. If he can stay relatively healthy for the next couple of years then I believe we will have gotten good value from his acquisition. In hindsight would I have traded for him and then given him an enhanced contract? No. It is the new contract that he was given when he came to the Bills that gives me pause. I agree with this entire post and I think that with improved OL play, TT will be just fine as a passer. He really is pretty good now imo. Edited May 7, 2016 by Bill from NYC
JohnC Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 I agree with this entire post and I think that with improved OL play, TT will be just fine as a passer. He really is pretty good now imo. The offensive line play on the right side last year was atrocious. That side of the line needs to be addressed. I'm now aware that Henderson was dealing with a health issue but it is stunning to see a player (at any position) whiff so much. Having impressive physical attributes does not necessarily translate into performance on the field. Miller at RG was too often abused by the players he was going against, especially when pass protecting. His nickname last year should have been rag doll. I've never seen a player get thrown around so much. He was adequate in run blocking but a disaster when pass blocking. Maybe he can make the sophomore leap? The Kujo pick was a damaging mistake that reverberates throughout the line. I give you credit for being spot on in your assessment of him when he was picked. If you are an offensive lineman and have slow feet you have a fatal flaw that can't be overcome. Incognito turned out to be not only our best performer on the line but he was also one of our best players on the field. It is fair to say that last year he was one of the best guards in the league. Every time that Cordy Glenn and Eric Wood pass Richie in the hall they should say thank you.
Mr. WEO Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 It's clear that there is no correlation that Gurley helps the Rams win games. Fine. Pay him what they pay Gurley. What is that RBs cap%? McCoy has flashes for sure, but to say that he takes the offense to some other "dimension" isn't consistent with reality. It's a simple overstatement.
CardinalScotts Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 When healthy he has just as much positive impact on our team as ANY other player. He is a phenomenal talent and if you can't see the difference between him and the vast majority of the other RBs in the league then you have simply convinced yourself that every RB is a dime a dozen and there is no convincing you otherwise. So, in short, I think he is worth it for sure. yes when healthy hes a game changer
JohnC Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Fine. Pay him what they pay Gurley. What is that RBs cap%? McCoy has flashes for sure, but to say that he takes the offense to some other "dimension" isn't consistent with reality. It's a simple overstatement. You fairly characterize what McCoy brings to the offense i.e. flashes of big plays. Does it rise to the level of adding a different dimension to the offense? I would say yes when he is on the field. But at this point in his career he isn't used as a workhorse back because it wouldn't be smart to use him in that way. The McCoy/Karlos tandem is a an important element of the offense. Our offense emphasizes the running game more than most other teams do. So from that standpoint the backs as a tandem do rise to the level of adding a dimension to the offense.
FireChan Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 You fairly characterize what McCoy brings to the offense i.e. flashes of big plays. Does it rise to the level of adding a different dimension to the offense? I would say yes when he is on the field. But at this point in his career he isn't used as a workhorse back because it wouldn't be smart to use him in that way. The McCoy/Karlos tandem is a an important element of the offense. Our offense emphasizes the running game more than most other teams do. So from that standpoint the backs as a tandem do rise to the level of adding a dimension to the offense. McCoy was signed and extended to be a workhorse back. It's revisionist history to say the intent was to use him sparingly with Karlos. Especially with that cap hit.
Doc Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 They traded for him looking for him to be a workhorse, but injuries derailed that plan. But even then, you still need a backup for a workhorse.
FireChan Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 They traded for him looking for him to be a workhorse, but injuries derailed that plan. But even then, you still need a backup for a workhorse. Right but to act as though the plan was "Work Shady in to get 800 yards and 4 TD's because he's old" is disingenuous.
Mr. WEO Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 You fairly characterize what McCoy brings to the offense i.e. flashes of big plays. Does it rise to the level of adding a different dimension to the offense? I would say yes when he is on the field. But at this point in his career he isn't used as a workhorse back because it wouldn't be smart to use him in that way. The McCoy/Karlos tandem is a an important element of the offense. Our offense emphasizes the running game more than most other teams do. So from that standpoint the backs as a tandem do rise to the level of adding a dimension to the offense. He's an important part part of the run heavy offense. Fine. Everyone else should have stopped at that bit of truth. All this about him being a superstar who brings this meat and potatoes offense to a different dimension is nuts. Right but to act as though the plan was "Work Shady in to get 800 yards and 4 TD's because he's old" is disingenuous. Disingenuity os the coin of the realm here...
Uffalo Ills Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 That's exactly why I predicted it. No one escapes injury for 4 straight years. Regression to the mean. That's... That's now how statistics work...
Doc Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 Right but to act as though the plan was "Work Shady in to get 800 yards and 4 TD's because he's old" is disingenuous. LOL! Talk about "disingenuous."
JohnC Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 McCoy was signed and extended to be a workhorse back. It's revisionist history to say the intent was to use him sparingly with Karlos. Especially with that cap hit. It turns out that he is not a workhorse back? So what. That doesn't mean that he is ineffective or that when used in tandem with Karlos and other backs that the running game is ineffective. Most teams rotate backs on offense. That is the norm, not the exception. The Bills because they emphasize the running game more than most make it difficult for any one back to carry the load. Is McCoy overpaid? Yes. So what. Some players are underpaid. It balances out. The bottom line is that he is a primary contributor to our offense. I don't get dismayed when a good player/productive is overpaid; I get dismayed when a mediocre player/non-productive player get over-paid. I don't disagree with anyone who says McCoy isn't the caliber of back that he once was i.e. one of the top backs in the league. However, that doesn't mean that he isn't now one of the top backs in the league who has to be used more judiciously than he was a few years ago.
FireChan Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 LOL! Talk about "disingenuous." Did that other poster not say McCoy was used less than he normally was because he's old? It turns out that he is not a workhorse back? So what. That doesn't mean that he is ineffective or that when used in tandem with Karlos and other backs that the running game is ineffective. Most teams rotate backs on offense. That is the norm, not the exception. The Bills because they emphasize the running game more than most make it difficult for any one back to carry the load. Is McCoy overpaid? Yes. So what. Some players are underpaid. It balances out. The bottom line is that he is a primary contributor to our offense. I don't get dismayed when a good player/productive is overpaid; I get dismayed when a mediocre player/non-productive player get over-paid. I don't disagree with anyone who says McCoy isn't the caliber of back that he once was i.e. one of the top backs in the league. However, that doesn't mean that he isn't now one of the top backs in the league who has to be used more judiciously than he was a few years ago. Fair points, I suppose. But too many decent players paid like elite players and you end up with a bad team.
metzelaars_lives Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 Starkly different? I saw a street FA signed late in the season with similar production to McCoys. Oh God.
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