JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) He doesn't tackle and make plays on the ball. He is BAD in coverage which is why people are concerned. He is electric with the ball in his hands. He makes more sense on offense IMO. He may be viewed as a hybrid player but he doesn't have the production in college of someone like the Honey Badger. He is one of the greatest college players that I have ever seen. His instincts and playmaking abilities were absolutely off the charts. Mathieu had 4 INTS, 11 FF, and 8 FR as a freshman & sophomore, Peppers had 1 turnover in 3 seasons!! I don't think that people comprehend just how good the Honey Badger was. Those players can't be compared. Mathieu also had a lot more tackles and that is despite the fact that Peppers played in the box. When we look at Peppers upside we also have to look at his downside. His floor is REALLY low. He is Mingo. They were both physical freaks with limited production. I would never, ever take a guy like that in the top 10. At the same time I would never take someone like Jake Mathews in the top 10. His upside was too limited for me. He was going to be a solid starter from draft night to retirement but never a difference maker. High floor and high ceiling in the top 10. I mean, he does tackle and make plays on the ball, even if he doesn't create turnovers. And my understanding is that he can cover. Is Byrd the best safety in the NFL because he had a few INTs early on? Plus, I'm not saying Peppers is Mathieu, but that he could be used similarly. Peppers is a decent returner in his own right. Would much rather trade down to get him, but I also see his value for our scheme and obvious emphasis on versatility. Edited March 22, 2017 by JohnBonhamRocks Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 I mean, he does tackle and make plays on the ball, even if he doesn't create turnovers. And my understanding is that he can cover. Is Byrd the best safety in the NFL because he had a few INTs early on? Plus, I'm not saying Peppers is Mathieu, but that he could be used similarly. Peppers is a decent returner in his own right. Would much rather trade down to get him, but I also see his value for our scheme and obvious emphasis on versatility. Peppers is a really good returner. He isn't good in coverage though. He has the skills to be. He has the athletic ability to be a great player but he has never had the production to match. He is a high risk, high reward guy. I'd be open to it at 44 depending on who else was left but not in the 1st. I think that there's a decent chance that he is there at 44. Quote
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Peppers is a really good returner. He isn't good in coverage though. He has the skills to be. He has the athletic ability to be a great player but he has never had the production to match. He is a high risk, high reward guy. I'd be open to it at 44 depending on who else was left but not in the 1st. I think that there's a decent chance that he is there at 44. Well I admittedly haven't watched all his tape, and you sound like you have, so I'll have to defer re: coverage ability, but agree he has the skills for it. Will be interesting to see if McDermott thinks he can coach him up, and whether focusing on 1-2 as opposed to 4-5 positions will aid in his development. I want to clarify, I'm not necessarily advocating for taking him at 10, but just that it seems like a good marriage of talent and scheme. I understand his value is more indicative of a mid-to-late 1st round pick. Quote
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 I mean, he does tackle and make plays on the ball, even if he doesn't create turnovers. And my understanding is that he can cover. Is Byrd the best safety in the NFL because he had a few INTs early on? Plus, I'm not saying Peppers is Mathieu, but that he could be used similarly. Peppers is a decent returner in his own right. Would much rather trade down to get him, but I also see his value for our scheme and obvious emphasis on versatility. he cannot cover good players without holding and PI Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Well I admittedly haven't watched all his tape, and you sound like you have, so I'll have to defer re: coverage ability, but agree he has the skills for it. Will be interesting to see if McDermott thinks he can coach him up, and whether focusing on 1-2 as opposed to 4-5 positions will aid in his development. I want to clarify, I'm not necessarily advocating for taking him at 10, but just that it seems like a good marriage of talent and scheme. I understand his value is more indicative of a mid-to-late 1st round pick. I haven't dug into it all but here is a tweet that I saw a few weeks ago: https://twitter.com/eliotcrist/status/841693131380776969 Quote
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 I haven't dug into it all but here is a tweet that I saw a few weeks ago: https://twitter.com/eliotcrist/status/841693131380776969 What do you mean, that was a coverage sack! Haha Quote
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 What do you mean, that was a coverage sack! Haha Curt Samuel is still picking the Roasted Peppers out of his teeth from that game. Wisconsin and Iowa weren't much better. Can't play Rutgers anymore... Quote
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Curt Samuel is still picking the Roasted Peppers out of his teeth from that game. Wisconsin and Iowa weren't much better. Can't play Rutgers anymore... So I should basically view Peppers as 2017's Darron Lee? Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 So I should basically view Peppers as 2017's Darron Lee? Without the size or production to play LB. Quote
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Without the size or production to play LB. Yeah, but... how many punts has Lee returned? Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Yeah, but... how many punts has Lee returned? He was a QB and returner in HS.... Quote
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) So I should basically view Peppers as 2017's Darron Lee? he played the same position in college (Viper) but Lee isn't trying to be a safety Edited March 22, 2017 by YoloinOhio Quote
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 He was a QB and returner in HS.... touche he played the same position in college (Viper) but Lee isn't trying to be a safety apparently he's not trying to be a linebacker either, or at least not trying enough: http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/04/jets-darron-lee-was-nfls-worst-rookie-linebacker/ Quote
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 touche apparently he's not trying to be a linebacker either, or at least not trying enough: http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/04/jets-darron-lee-was-nfls-worst-rookie-linebacker/ haha he has some issues - not really football related. I'm interested to see what happens with him. He's on a bad team and gave more effort than most of his teammates last year, but he was very raw and the youngest player in the draft last year. He needs a lot of support and coaching and I'm not sure there was much vet leadership in place with the Jets. Lots of older vets fighting, losing, and now gone. Quote
thebandit27 Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Just sayin' "LB Jayon Brown (6-0 1/4, 226) ran the 40 in 4.51 and 4.56 seconds, had a 32.5-inch vertical, a 4.51-second short shuttle, a 7.20-second three-cone, and added 20 lifts on the bench. All of those numbers represented significant improvement to what he did at the combine." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794269/article/pro-day-results-north-carolina Also, nice workout numbers, Dylan Cole. I see you: http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/cole-impresses-at-missouri-state-pro-day-032217 32 bench reps, 39" vertical Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted March 23, 2017 Posted March 23, 2017 Here's a guy that likes Peppers less than me: https://twitter.com/raidersanalysis/status/839965302330806274 Quote
GunnerBill Posted March 23, 2017 Posted March 23, 2017 I don't know what tape you would be watching to think Peppers is a first round pick, but I am not going to be amazed if he sneaks into the back of the round on hype and name value alone. Quote
YoloinOhio Posted March 23, 2017 Posted March 23, 2017 Here's a guy that likes Peppers less than me: https://twitter.com/raidersanalysis/status/839965302330806274 Find me a "first rounder" who plays his worst in the biggest games. Disappears in the biggest moments! Gets smoked against the best players. Quote
CommonCents Posted March 23, 2017 Posted March 23, 2017 That comparison to Mathieu early hurt my eyes. Total opposites. Quote
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 23, 2017 Posted March 23, 2017 yes, i'd be in love with that draft and if we sign brown. our defense would be legit. engram would be so good as a pass catching tight end. guy is as fast as a wr. be lining up in the slot all day. Engram is going to be a steal where ever he goes, hopefully he is reunited with Chad here. I've only seen a highlight reel so far. Draft Breakdown has a couple games up so if they add a couple more, I might make some notes. I tried emailing one of his coaches at Ashland a couple months ago for some game film. No reply Maybe next time With his size he could be a tackle and being a TE might have better than normal athlectism to play in our O He has one more turnover than I do. He is too small to play LB and doesn't have the hips to play CB. Is he a safety? Could he be this new age hybrid? Maybe, but I am not using a top 10 pick on a guy that has no position and no production. This is the EXACT same thing that I said about Barkevious Mingo when he came out. He checks the box of Pro Bowl upside because of his athleticism but in no way does he check the box of starter downside. many feel he should switch to offense. Quote
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