Bills Plan to improve the offense “The power of prayer"

[GunnerBill]

Correction: the right side wasn't the problem in the Eagles game. The problem was Incognito, who was eaten alive by Fletcher Cox. Incognito played really well in the other 15 games, but he manned up afterwards and said that Cox whipped his butt. Cox was one of the most impressive d-linemen in the league that I saw last season, btw.

 

100% right. It was Richie's worth game by a distance.

[ndirish1978]

I think the tables may have helped, because the text in the opening post definitely needed a graph in order to understand

[K-9]

Correction: the right side wasn't the problem in the Eagles game. The problem was Incognito, who was eaten alive by Fletcher Cox. Incognito played really well in the other 15 games, but he manned up afterwards and said that Cox whipped his butt. Cox was one of the most impressive d-linemen in the league that I saw last season, btw.

May have been the best game I saw all year out of a DT. Cox is the real deal. Just a fantastic player all the way around and I think Schwartz can make him even better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Nihilarian]

 

This. In 2014, the Panthers were starting 2 rookies at RG and LG, one an UDFA and one drafted in the 3rd round. The Panthers line improvement moves for 2015? They drafted a single OL - a guard in the 4th round. They signed a FA OT who was graded 74 out of 78 tackles and cut from the Titans one year into a 4 year contract. They scraped up a RT who'd been kicking around league practice squads.

 

I'm sure they had fans on a message board somewhere predicting gloom 'n doom, but, it worked. If it hadn't worked, I'm sure they would have had fans squealing about it.

 

Not understanding or agreeing with a team personnel department's plan or decisions does not mean they have no plan. They have a plan. It might work out, it might not work out, but it is a plan.

In regards to that Panthers offense. The Carolina Panthers have a... very... unique... player at QB who is 6'6'' 260lbs and won the MVP this past year because of his ability to escape the rush and make plays with his arm and legs. That Panthers offense was the #1 offense in points and #11 in yards and this with the only two skill players on offense gaining 1000+ yards in the process. TE Greg Olsen and Jon Stewart who had a combined 1008 yards from scrimmage.

 

The 2015 Panthers went 15-1 and that only loss was to the Atlanta Falcons while Newton had a very unlike MVP game. Cam went 17 of 30 for 142 yards passing and ran with 7 attempts for 46 yards and one TD. That 8-7 Falcon team managed to shut down Newton and his receiver corps. The Panthers played without RB Jon Stewart in this game and despite rushing for more than they passed they still lost the game and ToP.

 

 

If you could point to one single major factor as to the reason why the Panthers lost the SB to Denver, what would it be? I'd have to say it was all Broncos LBer Von Miller (MVP) and the Panthers inability to block him. Denver had 7 sacks on Newton in this game.

 

Now that the world saw that you would expect the Panthers to shore up their line, right? In the 2016 draft, the Panthers drafted a DT with their first pick, then 3 CB's and a TE. Free agency= Signed C Gino Gradkowski to a three-year contract. Re-signed QB Joe Webb to a two-year contract. You would think that this team would make every effort to bolster the tackle position.

 

 

In regards to the Buffalo Bills. Those superstar pass rushers on other teams aren't in cement as to rushing on just one side. Teams can and will overload their rush to the Bills weakest side and exploit it.

[GunnerBill]

May have been the best game I saw all year out of a DT. Cox is the real deal. Just a fantastic player all the way around and I think Schwartz can make him even better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Schwartz will get that D playing.

[dave mcbride]

 

First of all.......I'm not upset. I don't expect the team to make good decisions all the time. As Belichick has said.......and proven.......you really have to make bad decisions all the time to not compete in this league.

 

The Bills are still in the "lot's of bad decisions" stage after years of basically screwing every pooch possible.

 

Rex great D in his first two years with the Jets was full of players who couldn't play in many other schemes. Vets. Guys that seemed washed up or bad free agent signings by the previous regime. Signing the "other" LB who played next to Ray Lewis instead of paying for the real thing.

 

That defense looked like a sh*t-show on paper but veterans are better suited for the D.........which is actually a scheme that isn't primarily about making big plays but rather forcing punts.

 

The best thing about RR defense is that it requires much less premium talent between the hashes.........role players..........and yet in NY they kept drafting DL in round 1 and whadduya know......they kept getting worse.

 

I mean honestly, what is the difference between a $4M nose tackle tying up two blockers and $16M Dareus tying up two blockers?

 

Rex......and apparently DW.......do not seem to know either so don't feel bad.

That's not really a fair comparison. The Bills' first pick last year was a CB (who happens to be really good) and they already had another very good CB. The Jets DID draft CBs in the first round under Rex -- twice!! -- but they were essentially busts (Kyle Wilson and Milliner). The Bills' CBs aren't busts or anything close to it, and as you know the success of this D has as much to to do with CB play as anything else. I think you've got the facts wrong in this instance ...

 

PS - the front 7 in Rex's later years in NY played very well, and those players were good. The defense's failing was the CB play, but you can't say that the Jets didn't try to address the problem. They did. And also bear in mind that Rex was the guy who wanted to retain Revis. In retrospect, not paying him was a very bad decision by the Jets front office.

Edited May 2, 2016 by dave mcbride

[BobbyC81]

The point is you need to have a better plan than a belief (or a prayer) that someone may improve. Where is the plan B,C,D? A player may improve, or he may get worse or backslide. Henderson is what he is, an acceptable backup. He has had years to prove otherwise and the statistics show exactly what he is. As you say, taking someone even in the 1st round is nothing more than a gamble. Not taking anyone in the draft at all is throwing your money on the table and folding before the cards are even dealt. You are guaranteed to lose.

Henderson has had "years" to prove himsel? He was just drafted in 2014 and he was sick for a part of last season. Unlike some of you on this board I don't think the Bills are ready to give up on O-Linemen drafted in the prior 2 drafts.

[Deranged Rhino]

Biggest issue at play here is that other teams now have lots of film on:

 

1) Tyrod Taylor

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

Last year both caught many opponents by surprise.

 

The assumption is that experience together will mean progress but with little change planned and clear questions about the right side of the OL(think Eagles game implosion) and Tyrod's ability to read defenses and throw receivers open the offense then becomes a stationary target for defensive game planners with last season's film on hand.

 

We've seen QB progress halted by film study many, many times. I don't expect Tyrod to go Trent/JP or even Fitz level bad but he already nearly lead the league in 3 and outs and couldn't possibly protect the ball any better.........so there are holes in his game and he could actually get worse if those punts turn into pics.

 

This is why I valued a #1A WR as the most important need.

 

If you have an elite talent opposite Watkins you force both safeties to vacate the LOS which exposes them to the run game and diminishes the effect of games they may want to play with Tyrod.

You're assuming a lot with this post, then slanting it completely to fit your conclusion.

 

Why do you assume there's "little change planned" with the offense? You know enough about the game to know OCs are always adding to their playbooks, always adjusting, always tweaking. Being in the second year of a system provides a shorthand between coaches and players and allows them to advance concepts quicker and easier than in year one. To assume there aren't changes planned or tweaks being made isn't very realistic.

 

You're also assuming (even though I know you're a Taylor fan) that he's going to decline without giving any thought to his ability to get better. The guy has shown he's a worker in the classroom and weight room, I would not bet against him improving on his weak areas with a full off season and training camp to build on the chemistry they had last year. You're spot on with where he needs to improve, and he's copped to it himself. It's entirely possible he'll regress, which is why they haven't paid him, but it's also entirely possible he'll take that next step forward.

 

The OL still has question marks, no doubt about that. But again, you're completely dismissing what continuity can bring to the OL as a whole. Kromer proved his worth last year, I also believe Miller's got a chance to get better (and he must) and Mills provides stability at OT. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them bring in some more veteran as we move through the summer.

 

There's also still a need for a true #2 in the receiving room. I just disagree they don't have "elite talent" they can put opposite Watkins. Shady and Clay both have track records of being able to hurt defenses and teams have to account for both. Roman's shown the ability to be creative in his formations and motion, there's plenty of ways to engineer "elite talent" mismatches beyond Sammy with this offense as it stands.

[Nihilarian]

Biggest issue at play here is that other teams now have lots of film on:

 

1) Tyrod Taylor

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

Last year both caught many opponents by surprise.

 

The assumption is that experience together will mean progress but with little change planned and clear questions about the right side of the OL(think Eagles game implosion) and Tyrod's ability to read defenses and throw receivers open the offense then becomes a stationary target for defensive game planners with last season's film on hand.

 

We've seen QB progress halted by film study many, many times. I don't expect Tyrod to go Trent/JP or even Fitz level bad but he already nearly lead the league in 3 and outs and couldn't possibly protect the ball any better.........so there are holes in his game and he could actually get worse if those punts turn into pics.

 

This is why I valued a #1A WR as the most important need.

 

If you have an elite talent opposite Watkins you force both safeties to vacate the LOS which exposes them to the run game and diminishes the effect of games they may want to play with Tyrod.

I agree and adding a better player at RT might just allow Miller to further develop at RG.

 

Alas, Doug Whaley was basically forced to allow Ryan to get the players he needed to run his 3-4 scheme. I keep hearing that the team will draft best player available and yet went for need with those first three picks.

 

#1 pick, Lawson is considered an excellent run defending DE. Now we learn that Lawson might need shoulder surgery at some point that will sideline him 4-6 mo. and he says he can play with it so he could put it off until next year. Clemson connection here because Ryan's son is attending Clemson.

 

#2 pick, the Bills gave up two fourth round picks to move up 8 spots to draft ILB Reggie Ragland! So another player that fits Ryan's 3-4. Ragland dropped into the second because it was discovered he has an enlarged aorta but was cleared by the Bills medical staff.

 

#3 pick, Adolphus Washington a DT who is projected to play the 5 tech at DE, or 3 tech at DT or 0 tech at NT and is more of a pass rusher than run stuffer. This kid pulled a Warran Sap after a bowl game win and was arrested for it.

 

Looks to me like the Bills took three players whose value had dropped because of different problems. All three could be starters once the season gets here and that #3 pick could be replacing Kyle Williams at some point. I'm not really a big fan of this draft simply because I have my doubts about Ryan building a top defense in Buffalo with any players.

 

Also, Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith entered the NFL and had some success their first seasons. Then for whatever reason after starting out decently those two QB's under Ryan were pressed to throw more and failed miserably. I only hope the same doesn't happen with Tyrod.

 

Anyway, it's just a darn shame the Bills hired Rex Ryan who couldn't make that all-star defense work. So now the Bills retooled in the draft on defense to run his 3-4 instead of a WR, an OT and perhaps even drafting Paxton Lynch or even gotten the Cowboys 2nd and 3rd in giving up that pick at 19. Time will tell.

[eball]

Some of you guys and your agendas...so transparent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

For me on the o-line it comes down to this - is the Bills line perfect? No far from it. However, those teams we keep mentioning are evidence that you can win in the NFL running the ball without a perfect line if you:

 

1. commit to the run and have good backs;

2. have a creative run game coordinator (we have the best in the business imo in Greg Roman);

3. play good defense to ensure you don't have to abandon the run early in games.

 

EDIT: would I have liked to see some competition added at tackle? Definitely, but the draft didnt fall that way.

 

This pretty much sums up the way I see it.

 

Add in that

1) the coaches who have the film of games and practices are in a much better position than the fans are to make a call about whether a player is showing progress and may be expected to improve his 2nd year in the NFL, or in a system. (For Miller, it'll be his 2nd year in the NFL. For Henderson, 2nd year in the system.)

2) If I was asked to rate which areas of the team had the biggest holes/need for improvement I would have put LB as #1 priority, and DE as #2 priority. Our draft didn't quite fall that way but I'll take it.

[BillsVet]

Some of you guys and your agendas...so transparent.

 

OK. It doesn't remove the concept that switching to new defenses has historically required further draft and UFA resources to make the transition. Not every team has a HC who is adamant they need the kind of personnel Rex, Nix/Gailey, DJ, and Greggo needed to transition to and run "their" scheme.

 

The Bills seem to consistently close the barn door after the horse it out. If defense was the problem in 2015, they're addressing it in 2016. That's a reactive ideology that leaves them weak elsewhere. Kinda like how they loaded up on offense in 2015 after they were putrid in 2014.

 

I think it's wise to ask if the offense will be up to the task, as others have said, because their scheme and system are there for everyone to know. Some are of the opinion that going RT and WR early would address what are also weak areas or likely could be weak in 2016.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Miller was below average but not worthy of getting benched before the injury. I posted then that he should have been put on IR after he got hurt. Made no sense to have him play a quarter or so and then go back to the bench.

He should be much better this year.

Jury is still out on Henderson. If he comes back healthy he will probably win the job.

I would have rather they had drafted an OT than Jones or Williams. Maybe that is a sign Henderson is on the road to recovery.

Or that there weren't any O'Linemen that were worthy to be drafted then. If you draft guys that you don't think are better than what you've got @ T/G, what's the point ? If they liked a lineman , I think they would have drafted one.

[eball]

 

OK. It doesn't remove the concept that switching to new defenses has historically required further draft and UFA resources to make the transition. Not every team has a HC who is adamant they need the kind of personnel Rex, Nix/Gailey, DJ, and Greggo needed to transition to and run "their" scheme.

 

The Bills seem to consistently close the barn door after the horse it out. If defense was the problem in 2015, they're addressing it in 2016. That's a reactive ideology that leaves them weak elsewhere. Kinda like how they loaded up on offense in 2015 after they were putrid in 2014.

 

I think it's wise to ask if the offense will be up to the task, as others have said, because their scheme and system are there for everyone to know. Some are of the opinion that going RT and WR early would address what are also weak areas or likely could be weak in 2016.

 

It's a circular argument. The good teams maintain consistency in their coaching and schemes because they've been successful and don't need to change. The bad teams can't just continue along the same path so they change coaches, which usually means changing schemes. The Bills haven't been good enough to stick with something for more than a couple of years. This is only Whaley's 3rd draft.

 

With this particular team, in this offseason, can you honestly say the offense was more of a concern than the defense heading into the draft?

[BADOLBILZ]

That's not really a fair comparison. The Bills' first pick last year was a CB (who happens to be really good) and they already had another very good CB. The Jets DID draft CBs in the first round under Rex -- twice!! -- but they were essentially busts (Kyle Wilson and Milliner). The Bills' CBs aren't busts or anything close to it, and as you know the success of this D has as much to to do with CB play as anything else. I think you've got the facts wrong in this instance ...

 

PS - the front 7 in Rex's later years in NY played very well, and those players were good. The defense's failing was the CB play, but you can't say that the Jets didn't try to address the problem. They did. And also bear in mind that Rex was the guy who wanted to retain Revis. In retrospect, not paying him was a very bad decision by the Jets front office.

 

 

DL in Rex system don't have the opportunity to make tons of plays........so you really don't need to draft playmakers at those positions.

 

How is that lost on people?

 

Did they not watch Dareus talent get wasted all season taking on double teams last season?

 

He's a beast so he can tie up blockers if asked but the reason he is being paid $16M per is to make TFL's and get sacks and pressures which he can't do in volume in this system.

 

The Jets had/have some awesome DL talent........but what did it matter if they are just tying up blockers while positions that the team ACTUALLY needs playmakers at aren't stocked?

 

They let their secondary decline.....the area where they NEEDED to maintain first round talent......while drafting Wilkerson, Richardson and Coples in round 1.

[GunnerBill]

 

OK. It doesn't remove the concept that switching to new defenses has historically required further draft and UFA resources to make the transition.

Sorry what is the argument now I don't follow? Is this different to the "can't win with running game and defense" argument?

 

You can't win changing systems and coaches all the time I am the first to say that. It is why for all his faults I'd have preferred a 3rd year of Marrone to another change at that point.

[BADOLBILZ]

You're assuming a lot with this post, then slanting it completely to fit your conclusion.

 

Why do you assume there's "little change planned" with the offense? You know enough about the game to know OCs are always adding to their playbooks, always adjusting, always tweaking. Being in the second year of a system provides a shorthand between coaches and players and allows them to advance concepts quicker and easier than in year one. To assume there aren't changes planned or tweaks being made isn't very realistic.

 

You're also assuming (even though I know you're a Taylor fan) that he's going to decline without giving any thought to his ability to get better. The guy has shown he's a worker in the classroom and weight room, I would not bet against him improving on his weak areas with a full off season and training camp to build on the chemistry they had last year. You're spot on with where he needs to improve, and he's copped to it himself. It's entirely possible he'll regress, which is why they haven't paid him, but it's also entirely possible he'll take that next step forward.

 

The OL still has question marks, no doubt about that. But again, you're completely dismissing what continuity can bring to the OL as a whole. Kromer proved his worth last year, I also believe Miller's got a chance to get better (and he must) and Mills provides stability at OT. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them bring in some more veteran as we move through the summer.

 

There's also still a need for a true #2 in the receiving room. I just disagree they don't have "elite talent" they can put opposite Watkins. Shady and Clay both have track records of being able to hurt defenses and teams have to account for both. Roman's shown the ability to be creative in his formations and motion, there's plenty of ways to engineer "elite talent" mismatches beyond Sammy with this offense as it stands.

 

I'm not saying Tyrod is going to decline but why invite that possibility by not trying to get better around him?

 

Expecting improvement from a young QB in a situation without adding better talent........when the previous year all the key lineman remained healthy and the QB himself had a ridiculously low, irreplicable turnover %.......is a lot to expect, IMO.

 

Hell, forget improving......without a second good WR option if Sammy gets hurt does Tyrod turn from 2013 Nick Foles into 2014 Nick Foles? Or tank like Kaepernick?

 

In both cases those guys looked to be developing into franchise QB's but weren't surrounded by better talent as teams adapted to them and now they pretty much suck.

 

Was it Job in the old testament who said that the main reason to believe in God was that because their might actually be a God and the consequences of not even believing were kinda' not worth it?

 

I mean, unencumbered by science whatsoever it was still possible to be pragmatic wrt decision-making.

 

Well the consequences of not believing Tyrod could take steps backward aren't worth it and DW is whistling past the graveyard if he thinks he can just assume Tyrod's trajectory will remain constant without improving the supporting cast.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Sorry BADOL - I don't buy this. Roman's been a coordinator in this league long enough not to be a surprise for anyone even allowing for different personnel. He is an expert at coordinating the run game, he is creative, can trick you and can switch running game styles mid game in a way most coordinators are totally unable to do. His rushing rankings as an NFL OC:

 

8th

4th

3rd

4th

1st

 

The film being out on Tyrod I do buy as a problem. I don't believe there will be any significant drop off in the running production unless we suffer major injuries.

 

I'm not expecting them to drop off the rushing map.......but IMO the #1 finish in rushing had a good deal to do with the AFC opponents unfamiliarity with his system and how he would use all these new players in it.

 

Why? Because the Bills clearly do not have the quality of OL talent that he had with the Niners. In fact Sammy Watkins is the only player on this offense that is definitely better than the players he had at same positions with the Niners.

 

In theory, they should have been worse off than some of those Niner rushing units.

 

Not uncommon at all for offensive players and coordinators to do better in the first season of a new system with all new players. An opponents lack of familiarity of what you want to do with each player is an advantage.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

I'm not saying Tyrod is going to decline but why invite that possibility by not trying to get better around him?

 

 

Here's the disconnect -- who is saying they're not trying to get better around him? I'm with you that WR is a need for this team, but it wasn't as big of a need as the front seven and I don't think there were really any studs in this receiving class (though, admittedly I don't know much more than the headlines about any of them. You can get better around your QB in other ways than just giving him new weapons. Making the defense better helps Tyrod, doesn't it?

 

Giving him a full camp, full off season and all OTA's as the unquestioned starter (and probably double the reps he got last year) has also got to help in terms of building that chemistry with receivers not numbered 14. Taylor has the chance this off season to not only be unencumbered by having to learn a new system, but also to greatly improve his relationship with all his skill guys.

 

Add to that Roman having a full season worth of tape and working with Taylor to know what he does best and where his weaknesses are. Yes, your'e right that the rest of the league has that too but that's reactive where Roman gets to be proactive with Taylor's development and his game plans.

 

 

Expecting improvement from a young QB in a situation without adding better talent........when the previous year all the key lineman remained healthy and the QB himself had a ridiculously low, irreplicable turnover %.......is a lot to expect, IMO.

 

Hell, forget improving......without a second good WR option if Sammy gets hurt does Tyrod turn from 2013 Nick Foles into 2014 Nick Foles? Or tank like Kaepernick?

 

In both cases those guys looked to be developing into franchise QB's but weren't surrounded by better talent as teams adapted to them and now they pretty much suck.

 

Was it Job in the old testament who said that the main reason to believe in God was that because their might actually be a God and the consequences of not even believing were kinda' not worth it?

 

I mean, unencumbered by science whatsoever it was still possible to be pragmatic wrt decision-making.

 

Well the consequences of not believing Tyrod could take steps backward aren't worth it and DW is whistling past the graveyard if he thinks he can just assume Tyrod's trajectory will remain constant without improving the supporting cast.

 

You're not wrong, you're just not giving DW credit for the whole plan. You're hung up on the failure to add a legit #2 WR, which I agree would have been nice, and failing to see the other ways which you can build around a young QB to help his development.

 

... But yes, if Sammy goes down for any length of time, this WR corps will be very weak. That's offset of course by the scheme (run first) and Roman's ability to use TEs and RBs in the passing game. Not completely offset, but you can't plug every hole in a salary cap league.

[BADOLBILZ]

Correction: the right side wasn't the problem in the Eagles game. The problem was Incognito, who was eaten alive by Fletcher Cox. Incognito played really well in the other 15 games, but he manned up afterwards and said that Cox whipped his butt. Cox was one of the most impressive d-linemen in the league that I saw last season, btw.

 

The entire OL was a problem. Incognito was awful. Cox was great. Eagles DEFINITELY had a gameplan that day. It had the feel of the first game the Bills played against the Jets.......like extra effort was made in game planning.