RD 4, Pick 139: QB Cardale Jones, Ohio State

[FireChan]

 

Marrone's assessment was premature, and immaturely acted upon.

 

 

Great point dude.

Let's hear another conspiracy theory.

[3rdand12]

Being a jerk doesn't mean that your evaluation of any player is disqualifying because of personality deficiencies. Belichick is certainly not an engaging personality but his distasteful personality traits don't diminish his football judgments. Bill Parcells was beyond being arrogant yet his football judgments were for the most part very good. My point is not that Marrone is comparable to either of these HOF coaches but rather it is likability doesn't detract from one's evaluation of players, especially when their judgments have mostly proven to be correct.

 

There are certain traits that are essential for particular positions. Kujo has slow feet and lacks athleticism. No amount of coaching can overcome that deficiency. As time has gone by DM has been proven right on his assessment of the lumbering tackle. With his impatience with EJ I'm not going to criticize a HC who wants to win now. As far as developing EJ the reality is that Whaley has come to the same conclusion that Marrone quickly made. EJ has a flaw that for a qb can't be overcome: he is not an accurate passer. You can criticize Marrone for a lot of things but on his assessment of EJ he was correct.

Did you see how he staffed the O line?. As if he did not want to protect the QB ?

Dude was an arrogant blowhard IMO, and it is certainly debatable as to whether he could coach up anyone much less get the best 11 on the field as he claimed.

Nothing personal John, but i still carry some venom for him.

Let's hear another conspiracy theory.

Actually in retrospect , i get the "feeling" Marrone really did not like EJM from the get go.

 

Thats not to say Manuel would ever become anything more than what he is.

[26CornerBlitz]

@billsupdates

Photos, videos: Cardale Jones and Jonathan Williams of the #Bills had fun at NFLPA #RookiePremiere http://ow.ly/frQY300seZP

[26CornerBlitz]

@TheDraftWire

Four dubious rookie quarterback projections for 2016: https://t.co/43g5i7c6YC

Cardale Jones will take over 40% of the snaps in 2016:

Look, i’m not saying the Buffalo Bills don’t trust Tyrod Taylor to be their future, but they certainly haven’t given him the endorsement as of yet. Quite honestly, they shouldn’t either. Taylor is a good quarterback, a quarterback who Greg Roman could mold into his version of Kaepernick from 2013.

 

 

Dubious? Absolutely!

[FireChan]

Did you see how he staffed the O line?. As if he did not want to protect the QB ?

Dude was an arrogant blowhard IMO, and it is certainly debatable as to whether he could coach up anyone much less get the best 11 on the field as he claimed.

Nothing personal John, but i still carry some venom for him.

 

Actually in retrospect , i get the "feeling" Marrone really did not like EJM from the get go.

 

Thats not to say Manuel would ever become anything more than what he is.

I don't know about that. He seemed nothing but supportive until his second season. When EJ got worse than he was as a rookie.

 

Maybe that was in part a failing of the staff, but I don't think Marrone was very unhappy with EJ as a starter until 2014. Around the same time a large portion of fans recognized his regression. Except we didn't have the access to practices that Marrone did.

[3rdand12]

I don't know about that. He seemed nothing but supportive until his second season. When EJ got worse than he was as a rookie.

 

Maybe that was in part a failing of the staff, but I don't think Marrone was very unhappy with EJ as a starter until 2014. Around the same time a large portion of fans recognized his regression. Except we didn't have the access to practices that Marrone did.

I am only guessing of course in regard to EJM and Marrone. Uneducated opinion at best. And why the drop off. or lack of progress ?

 

How Marrone handled the O line was atrocious. His use of receivers worried me too.

 

I use that as part of the formula for my overall opinion.

Possibly unfair , but that is where i stand.

 

Now on the other hand, i get a much better vibe about Cardale having a decent shot under this staff !

[JohnC]

Did you see how he staffed the O line?. As if he did not want to protect the QB ?

Dude was an arrogant blowhard IMO, and it is certainly debatable as to whether he could coach up anyone much less get the best 11 on the field as he claimed.

Nothing personal John, but i still carry some venom for him.

Actually in retrospect , i get the "feeling" Marrone really did not like EJM from the get go.

 

Thats not to say Manuel would ever become anything more than what he is.

What you are suggesting is that Marrone deliberately sabotaged EJ by assembling an incompetent line that in the end would result in sabotaging himself. That makes little sense. It is the GM who assembles the roster. Our line was one of the most poorly staffed in the league. In putting together a line he worked with what he had. The inadequacy of the line is mostly the fault of the GM. It still is a weak point.

 

You made the comment that Marrone didn't like EJ. How do you come to that conclusion? I'm confident that if EJ would have been a more accomplished qb on the field he would have been infatuated with him. The truth is that Marrone did not believe in EJ as a starter. He watched him in practice and he watched him play. It didn't take too much time for him to conclude that EJ didn't have what it takes to be a starter in this league. What you are doing is criticizing him for making a quick judgment on EJ that proved to be right. Even Whaley has come to that conclusion. Marrone simply felt that he didn't have much of a chance to succeed as a HC with EJ taking the snaps. He was right.

 

It's funny that you call Marrone a blowhard. That is a frequent description of our current HC. Without any hesitation I would take the more dour Marrone as a HC over the more personable HC that is now prancing on the sidelines. You might be reluctant to admit it but the former HC did more with less than the current HC.

[3rdand12]

What you are suggesting is that Marrone deliberately sabotaged EJ by assembling an incompetent line that in the end would result in sabotaging himself. That makes little sense. It is the GM who assembles the roster. Our line was one of the most poorly staffed in the league. In putting together a line he worked with what he had. The inadequacy of the line is mostly the fault of the GM. It still is a weak point.

 

You made the comment that Marrone didn't like EJ. How do you come to that conclusion? I'm confident that if EJ would have been a more accomplished qb on the field he would have been infatuated with him. The truth is that Marrone did not believe in EJ as a starter. He watched him in practice and he watched him play. It didn't take too much time for him to conclude that EJ didn't have what it takes to be a starter in this league. What you are doing is criticizing him for making a quick judgment on EJ that proved to be right. Even Whaley has come to that conclusion. Marrone simply felt that he didn't have much of a chance to succeed as a HC with EJ taking the snaps. He was right.

 

It's funny that you call Marrone a blowhard. That is a frequent description of our current HC. Without any hesitation I would take the more dour Marrone as a HC over the more personable HC that is now prancing on the sidelines. You might be reluctant to admit it but the former HC did more with less than the current HC.

As i mentioned, it is my opinion. May be unfair and biased .

I could take some time to defend my opinion further about Marrone , but i don't feel the need to convince anyone.

I appreciate your valid counters though , but i won't soon change my mind about him.

Or that at some point he made it very well known he was done with Manuel. He would have been better served to have Urbik at rg and th RG back to RT where he belonged. and LG story was absurd.

That line could neither run nor protect the rookie from trauma.

I saw trial by fire. and as i said, it is just my opinion, i do not have any inside knowledge nor know the intimate details as to what protections were called.

and yes a blowhard is some one who says something and does not back it up. Rex fits that bill too, i suppose : )

[John from Riverside]

What you are suggesting is that Marrone deliberately sabotaged EJ by assembling an incompetent line that in the end would result in sabotaging himself. That makes little sense. It is the GM who assembles the roster. Our line was one of the most poorly staffed in the league. In putting together a line he worked with what he had. The inadequacy of the line is mostly the fault of the GM. It still is a weak point.

 

You made the comment that Marrone didn't like EJ. How do you come to that conclusion? I'm confident that if EJ would have been a more accomplished qb on the field he would have been infatuated with him. The truth is that Marrone did not believe in EJ as a starter. He watched him in practice and he watched him play. It didn't take too much time for him to conclude that EJ didn't have what it takes to be a starter in this league. What you are doing is criticizing him for making a quick judgment on EJ that proved to be right. Even Whaley has come to that conclusion. Marrone simply felt that he didn't have much of a chance to succeed as a HC with EJ taking the snaps. He was right.

 

It's funny that you call Marrone a blowhard. That is a frequent description of our current HC. Without any hesitation I would take the more dour Marrone as a HC over the more personable HC that is now prancing on the sidelines. You might be reluctant to admit it but the former HC did more with less than the current HC.

Talk to me when Marrone HC's his team to two consecutive AFC Championships

 

God....if it didnt happen yesterday it didnt happen....right?

[FireChan]

Talk to me when Marrone HC's his team to two consecutive AFC Championships

 

God....if it didnt happen yesterday it didnt happen....right?

It was over half a decade ago. I won a spelling bee 20 years ago, but I ain't walking around like a human Dictionary.

[JohnC]

Talk to me when Marrone HC's his team to two consecutive AFC Championships

 

God....if it didnt happen yesterday it didnt happen....right?

Overall, Rex had a losing record with the Jets and finished his last season with four wins. He was fired. He was hired by Buffalo and his team underachieved (my opinion). I stand by my view that Marrone did more with less as a HC with the Bills than Rex did with a better roster. If you disagree with that assessment then that is fine.

 

You are right that Rex went to the AFC Championships his first two years. His last five years as a HC have not been sterling. When you make a judgment on a HC what he did in the distant past (short life span for HCs) is less relevant that what he is currently doing.

 

I stand by my position that the unlikable Marrone did a better job than Red did for the Bills. If you believe otherwise then so be it.

[3rdand12]

Overall, Rex had a losing record with the Jets and finished his last season with four wins. He was fired. He was hired by Buffalo and his team underachieved (my opinion). I stand by my view that Marrone did more with less as a HC with the Bills than Rex did with a better roster. If you disagree with that assessment then that is fine.

 

You are right that Rex went to the AFC Championships his first two years. His last five years as a HC have not been sterling. When you make a judgment on a HC what he did in the distant past (short life span for HCs) is less relevant that what he is currently doing.

 

I stand by my position that the unlikable Marrone did a better job than Red did for the Bills. If you believe otherwise then so be it.

ah, so this helps define your position. Thats fair enough.

I held hope for Marrone, was excited to get him. I was not thrilled with Rex. still not.

But i am willing to change my opinion on both.

 

i live in the now. Because life is fluid. The past is to learn from and the future is to hope and build for

[John from Riverside]

Overall, Rex had a losing record with the Jets and finished his last season with four wins. He was fired. He was hired by Buffalo and his team underachieved (my opinion). I stand by my view that Marrone did more with less as a HC with the Bills than Rex did with a better roster. If you disagree with that assessment then that is fine.

 

You are right that Rex went to the AFC Championships his first two years. His last five years as a HC have not been sterling. When you make a judgment on a HC what he did in the distant past (short life span for HCs) is less relevant that what he is currently doing.

 

I stand by my position that the unlikable Marrone did a better job than Red did for the Bills. If you believe otherwise then so be it.

You are entitled to your opinion

 

IMO.....Doug Marrone did NOTHING with his 1 year with the bills except make the right choice for a defensive coordinator.

 

Lets keep in mind this is a former OL coach that had a horrible OL.....every single one of them regressed and he was actually working with them one on one.

 

I dont think that recent failure out weighes distant success and vice versa......I think that the situations of those years have to be taken into account.

 

In recent years RR was at odds with his GM with the jets.....if he was doing well we would not have been able to hire him because he would not have been available.

 

Having distant success gives me a glimmer of hope that if we can duplicate the reasons WHY he had success......we might be able to bring it back.

 

This next year is gonna tell a lot. To me it looks like he has a supportive owner and GM backing him up.......his OC seems to have been a good choice....we have a QB that looks like is a starting QB

 

I am waiting to see what happens this year.

[JohnC]

ah, so this helps define your position. Thats fair enough.

I held hope for Marrone, was excited to get him. I was not thrilled with Rex. still not.

But i am willing to change my opinion on both.

 

i live in the now. Because life is fluid. The past is to learn from and the future is to hope and build for

Marrone was a meat and potato type of coach. Nothing special about him. To his credit the players played hard for him. Was he going to have a long term tenure with the Bills? I don't believe so. His football philosophy and personality didn't mesh with the GM and especially within an organizational setting where collaboration is required. So he left on his own accord. I have nothing against him and don't particularly care what his future career trajectory is. That's his business.

 

With respect to the Rex I had little regard for him before he was hired and my feelings about are even more confirmed after his first year on the job with us.

 

 

i live in the now. Because life is fluid. The past is to learn from and the future is to hope and build for

 

It appears that the owners were most influential in the hiring of Rex. As owners that is their prerogative. I thought the selection of a HC was rushed and there should have been a wider range of input from within and outside the organization on that important hire. All I can say is that decisions have consequences. When you get on a roller coaster you don't get off until it runs it's course. That's what we are waiting for now.

[John from Riverside]

Marrone was a meat and potato type of coach. Nothing special about him. To his credit the players played hard for him. Was he going to have a long term tenure with the Bills? I don't believe so. His football philosophy and personality didn't mesh with the GM and especially within an organizational setting where collaboration is required. So he left on his own accord. I have nothing against him and don't particularly care what his future career trajectory is. That's his business.

 

With respect to the Rex I had little regard for him before he was hired and my feelings about are even more confirmed after his first year on the job with us.

 

 

 

 

It appears that the owners were most influential in the hiring of Rex. As owners that is their prerogative. I thought the selection of a HC was rushed and there should have been a wider range of input from within and outside the organization on that important hire. All I can say is that decisions have consequences. When you get on a roller coaster you don't get off until it runs it's course. That's what we are waiting for now.

Didnt we interview a lot of coaches before making a decison on Rex?

 

Im wondering now

[JohnC]

You are entitled to your opinion

 

IMO.....Doug Marrone did NOTHING with his 1 year with the bills except make the right choice for a defensive coordinator.

 

Lets keep in mind this is a former OL coach that had a horrible OL.....every single one of them regressed and he was actually working with them one on one.

 

I dont think that recent failure out weighes distant success and vice versa......I think that the situations of those years have to be taken into account.

 

In recent years RR was at odds with his GM with the jets.....if he was doing well we would not have been able to hire him because he would not have been available.

 

Having distant success gives me a glimmer of hope that if we can duplicate the reasons WHY he had success......we might be able to bring it back.

 

This next year is gonna tell a lot. To me it looks like he has a supportive owner and GM backing him up.......his OC seems to have been a good choice....we have a QB that looks like is a starting QB

 

I am waiting to see what happens this year.

I have a respectful but fundamental disagreement with you regarding Rex's past successes and his most recent (actually extended) failures. In my admittedly jaundiced view of him his core weakness is that he is not too adept at making adjustments to his approach to the game. The NFL is a game of constant adjustments not only weekly against different teams on your schedule but the game in general evolves year to year. The game in the two years in which he had success in NY is markedly different than what it is five years or so later.

 

There is a stubbornness and inflexibility with respect to his defensive philosophy. That is evident with his "all in" approach for this upcoming season and with the hiring of his brother. His attitude is he is going to be even more determined to force the issue rather than make the adjustments more suited to his personnel. That rigidity in approach was on display last year. That is what I find most troubling about him and his prospects.

Didnt we interview a lot of coaches before making a decison on Rex?

 

Im wondering now

I know we did interview other coaches. The person I wanted hired was Hue Jackson. In my opinion he would have been an excellent selection. Roman would have been a good option and in hindsight Schwatz would have been a reasonable conventional selection. There was talk that Whaley favored Hue Jackson.

Edited May 22, 2016 by JohnC

[eball]

I have a respectful but fundamental disagreement with you regarding Rex's past successes and his most recent (actually extended) failures. In my admittedly jaundiced view of him his core weakness is that he is not too adept at making adjustments to his approach to the game. The NFL is a game of constant adjustments not only weekly against different teams on your schedule but the game in general evolves year to year. The game in the two years in which he had success in NY is markedly different than what it is five years or so later.

 

There is a stubbornness and inflexibility with respect to his defensive philosophy. That is evident with his "all in" approach for this upcoming season and with the hiring of his brother. His attitude is he is going to be even more determined to force the issue rather than make the adjustments more suited to his personnel. That rigidity in approach was on display last year. That is what I find most troubling about him and his prospects.

I know we did interview other coaches. The person I wanted hired was Hue Jackson. In my opinion he would have been an excellent selection. Roman would have been a good option and in hindsight Schwatz would have been a reasonable conventional selection. There was talk that Whaley favored Hue Jackson.

 

John, I realize I'm not going to change your mind about Rex (and I'm not trying to), but I believe he is actually well known for customizing his game plan to the particular opponent. I recall reading an article last year in which the writer commented on the specific notebooks Ryan kept for each opponent, and his remarkable recall of the strategy and plays as well, even going years back.

 

Anyway, we'll all find out soon enough if his current trend of not making the playoffs continues...

[JohnC]

 

John, I realize I'm not going to change your mind about Rex (and I'm not trying to), but I believe he is actually well known for customizing his game plan to the particular opponent. I recall reading an article last year in which the writer commented on the specific notebooks Ryan kept for each opponent, and his remarkable recall of the strategy and plays as well, even going years back.

 

Anyway, we'll all find out soon enough if his current trend of not making the playoffs continues...

What Rex didn't do last year is adjust his defense to maximize the talents of the players he had to work with. There is no doubt that adjustments and strategies are a little different against different opponents. You can't have the same strategy for a team that emphasizes the run vs the pass or emphasizes downfield passes vs quick outlet passes or emphasizes running wide vs running straight ahead or emphasizes zone blocking vs man to man blocking.

 

What the organization is doing as demonstrated by he draft is bringing in players that suit the scheme that Rex wants to run. That isn't the source of my criticism of him. He should have been more flexible to accommodate the abilities of the players he had on hand last year. No one can say that he did a smart job of utilizing the talent he had. The Bills were far from being a complete team but they were good enough to be a wild-card team. He squandered that opportunity because of his obtuseness.

 

I'm not a believer in Rex, and never have been. Overall his tenure in New York was a failure. He concluded his last season in New York with four wins and then got fired. We then hired him. Peculiar hire! Many people like his bombast and bravado. I'm not one of them.

 

If you want to say that I am biased against him I won't argue that point. My distaste for him originated prior to his arrival to Buffalo. What he has done so far has reinforced my negative view of him. I wish him well but my view on him is very unlikely to change.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'm not sure the problem was a question of flexibility on Rex's part. Players said after last season that they just didn't put in the work that was needed. Rex claimed he tried to change his system and hybridize what he wanted to do with what the players were comfortable with already.

 

When Rex came in to Buffalo and bombastically declared he wanted the #1 overall defense, who thought that he meant he was going to do nothing? Did that sound like he was going to make zero changes on defense? Why then did some players take it to mean there would be only very simple changes? Who has seen that success in the NFL is obtained by doing the same old same old year after year?

[JohnC]

I'm not sure the problem was a question of flexibility on Rex's part. Players said after last season that they just didn't put in the work that was needed. Rex claimed he tried to change his system and hybridize what he wanted to do with what the players were comfortable with already.

 

When Rex came in to Buffalo and bombastically declared he wanted the #1 overall defense, who thought that he meant he was going to do nothing? Did that sound like he was going to make zero changes on defense? Why then did some players take it to mean there would be only very simple changes? Who has seen that success in the NFL is obtained by doing the same old same old year after year?

There were two different DCs with the Bills prior to Rex's arrival. Schwartz's approach was different from Pettine's approach. Yet both were effective. You don't have to have a cookie cutter approach to run a successful defense staffed by quality players, mostly located on the line.

 

If players didn't put in the required work to grasp his defense then not only is it a player problem but it certainly is a coaching problem. Mario clearly resisted what Rex wanted him to do. How did Rex respond to his recalcitrance? He kept him on the field. Not only is that a player issue but it certainly is a coaching issue.

 

The coach can run any system that he wants. He makes the determination. There is no question about that. The bottom line is simple: How well did it work? Did the players play up to their potential? If they didn't then what were the reasons for the lack of achievement and what was the response of the coach to fix the problem?