BillsVet Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Now you're spinning it that it is even better that he is injured than if he were healthy? Dude give me a break, He's a good player and the player we needed because of the corner Rex painted us into. If he were healthy we wouldn't have been able to get him, so I suppose it was good in that regard but if we weren't so compromised by having the head coach we have, I'm sure Whaley would have preferred a healthy player. We have to write off a year of productive play from a first rounder because Rex is Rex. It really is that simple. The good news is that 2017 bodes well for the coach that inherits this kid. We'll still need help in other areas like viable LB with speed but Lawson will be in place. The whole thread since it was announced Lawson needs surgery has become quite the narrative. Buffalo needed front defensive 7 help and used their top 3 draft picks to address there. This, despite the scheme's complexity and veterans having issues getting it. Now, the top pick is hurt and expected to be physically unable to play for at least 4 months after surgery for an injury everyone knew he had. Still...it's a positive. It's so positive that people are talking about signing the recently released Jarius Wynn, or a 35 year old Calvin Pace or a 36 year old Dwight Freeney or banking on street FA's. Ranked 19th defensively last year...it's a positive their top draft pick won't be there. Because he can still do cardio! And he'll be good to go when he's cleared! Doesn't need to be in football shape either. So Lawson's injury is a positive. That's Twilight Zone stuff there. Cue the mega posters in their defense and/or ridicule.
John from Riverside Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 The whole thread since it was announced Lawson needs surgery has become quite the narrative. Buffalo needed front defensive 7 help and used their top 3 draft picks to address there. This, despite the scheme's complexity and veterans having issues getting it. Now, the top pick is hurt and expected to be physically unable to play for at least 4 months after surgery for an injury everyone knew he had. Still...it's a positive. It's so positive that people are talking about signing the recently released Jarius Wynn, or a 35 year old Calvin Pace or a 36 year old Dwight Freeney or banking on street FA's. Ranked 19th defensively last year...it's a positive their top draft pick won't be there. Because he can still do cardio! And he'll be good to go when he's cleared! Doesn't need to be in football shape either. So Lawson's injury is a positive. That's Twilight Zone stuff there. Cue the mega posters in their defense and/or ridicule. Mega posters dont need to waste bandwidth.....
nucci Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I'd sit him until 2017. He will be in this year with a recent injury and recovery, go against a 325# lineman coming at him full speed and blow it out again, maybe some permanent damage an approximate 4 month recovery period but you would sit him the whole year? How is an O-lineman coming at him at full speed and how fast could that be?
Mr. WEO Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 The whole thread since it was announced Lawson needs surgery has become quite the narrative. Buffalo needed front defensive 7 help and used their top 3 draft picks to address there. This, despite the scheme's complexity and veterans having issues getting it. Now, the top pick is hurt and expected to be physically unable to play for at least 4 months after surgery for an injury everyone knew he had. Still...it's a positive. It's so positive that people are talking about signing the recently released Jarius Wynn, or a 35 year old Calvin Pace or a 36 year old Dwight Freeney or banking on street FA's. Ranked 19th defensively last year...it's a positive their top draft pick won't be there. Because he can still do cardio! And he'll be good to go when he's cleared! Doesn't need to be in football shape either. So Lawson's injury is a positive. That's Twilight Zone stuff there. Cue the mega posters in their defense and/or ridicule. Schefter (right after the draft): Lawson will need surgery at some point and will miss months of a season Lawson: that's not true Whaley: Lawson is a day one starter. We have complete confidence in our medical staff and they have cleared him to play right now. emoulds: Lawson will miss an extended period of time this season one member of the chorus: you can't just SAY that!! Damn your ego---tell us why he will miss games! It's otherwise impossible to speculate with any accuracy!! Whaley: yeah we knew this was a problem, so we are doing the smart thing--getting out ahead of it and sending him for that surgery schefter said he needed but our docs said he didn't at this time. There was a tweak, you know... Chorus: this is no big deal....in fact it's great news! another member of chorus: this surgery will cure him of this problem and he will never be injured in this way again! Media: he may not be back until November chorus: so what? That means he will be fresh and will have had less chance to get injured before November! You realists are clearly NOT!
3rdand12 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) This is a big setback. simple enough. Edited May 18, 2016 by 3rdand12
eball Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 The whole thread since it was announced Lawson needs surgery has become quite the narrative. Buffalo needed front defensive 7 help and used their top 3 draft picks to address there. This, despite the scheme's complexity and veterans having issues getting it. Now, the top pick is hurt and expected to be physically unable to play for at least 4 months after surgery for an injury everyone knew he had. Still...it's a positive. It's so positive that people are talking about signing the recently released Jarius Wynn, or a 35 year old Calvin Pace or a 36 year old Dwight Freeney or banking on street FA's. Ranked 19th defensively last year...it's a positive their top draft pick won't be there. Because he can still do cardio! And he'll be good to go when he's cleared! Doesn't need to be in football shape either. So Lawson's injury is a positive. That's Twilight Zone stuff there. Cue the mega posters in their defense and/or ridicule. I believe the only "positive" spin anyone has placed on the situation is that at least it's being done now so it will hopefully not be a problem in the future. Some people look for the optimistic side of things, others look to criticize. But please, continue your ridicule.
K-9 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I believe the only "positive" spin anyone has placed on the situation is that at least it's being done now so it will hopefully not be a problem in the future. Some people look for the optimistic side of things, others look to criticize. But please, continue your ridicule. Gotta admit, the (over) use of smiley faces is a nice touch, no? Really drives home the level of enjoyment derived. GO BILLS!!!
eball Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Gotta admit, the (over) use of smiley faces is a nice touch, no? Really drives home the level of enjoyment derived. GO BILLS!!! Condescension at its finest.
4merper4mer Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I believe the only "positive" spin anyone has placed on the situation is that at least it's being done now so it will hopefully not be a problem in the future. Some people look for the optimistic side of things, others look to criticize. But please, continue your ridicule. You said he played great for 3 years while injured which implies he'll be even better when healthy. That was the positive spin. Maybe Percy Harvin will score 34 touchdowns this year too.
BillsVet Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Condescension at its finest. You guys got to the "woe is me" line faster than I expected. Oh and...
thebandit27 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Schefter (right after the draft): Lawson will need surgery at some point and will miss months of a season Lawson: that's not true Whaley: Lawson is a day one starter. We have complete confidence in our medical staff and they have cleared him to play right now. emoulds: Lawson will miss an extended period of time this season one member of the chorus: you can't just SAY that!! Damn your ego---tell us why he will miss games! It's otherwise impossible to speculate with any accuracy!! Whaley: yeah we knew this was a problem, so we are doing the smart thing--getting out ahead of it and sending him for that surgery schefter said he needed but our docs said he didn't at this time. There was a tweak, you know... Chorus: this is no big deal....in fact it's great news! another member of chorus: this surgery will cure him of this problem and he will never be injured in this way again! Media: he may not be back until November chorus: so what? That means he will be fresh and will have had less chance to get injured before November! You realists are clearly NOT! I think those two are mischaracterizations. One, maybe two folks have said such things. The rest of us simply think it's not the end of the world, but rather an unfortunate setback for a guy we're excited to have in the fold.
K-9 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I think those two are mischaracterizations. One, maybe two folks have said such things. The rest of us simply think it's not the end of the world, but rather an unfortunate setback for a guy we're excited to have in the fold. That would be the grownup, responsible response. Really, the only sensible response. But hey, gotta have some place to put all those smileys! GO BILLS!!!
chris heff Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 My first thought when the injury came to light was why wait? Why not fix this now? I looking forward to seeing this kid play, but I'd rather not risk making it worse or missing much more time. As to the way this situation was handled, just dumb.
Mr. WEO Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I think those two are mischaracterizations. One, maybe two folks have said such things. The rest of us simply think it's not the end of the world, but rather an unfortunate setback for a guy we're excited to have in the fold. OK, the last one I may have taken a little artistic license with. The rest are pretty much paraphrased...
Dorkington Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I believe the only "positive" spin anyone has placed on the situation is that at least it's being done now so it will hopefully not be a problem in the future. Bingo.
3rdand12 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 My first thought when the injury came to light was why wait? Why not fix this now? I looking forward to seeing this kid play, but I'd rather not risk making it worse or missing much more time. As to the way this situation was handled, just dumb. also a simple yet succinct statement. Ty .
What a Tuel Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) Schefter (right after the draft): Lawson will need surgery at some point and will miss months of a season Lawson: that's not true Whaley: Lawson is a day one starter. We have complete confidence in our medical staff and they have cleared him to play right now. emoulds: Lawson will miss an extended period of time this season one member of the chorus: you can't just SAY that!! Damn your ego---tell us why he will miss games! It's otherwise impossible to speculate with any accuracy!! Whaley: yeah we knew this was a problem, so we are doing the smart thing--getting out ahead of it and sending him for that surgery schefter said he needed but our docs said he didn't at this time. There was a tweak, you know... Chorus: this is no big deal....in fact it's great news! another member of chorus: this surgery will cure him of this problem and he will never be injured in this way again! Media: he may not be back until November chorus: so what? That means he will be fresh and will have had less chance to get injured before November! You realists are clearly NOT! I don't have time to do it, but I am sure you could replace a lot of those chorus parts with a consensus over the top negative reaction to the whole Lawson surgery thing. Of course the negativity is justified because we are...doooooooooomed whenever things don't go precisely our way. On the other hand, I don't think I have ever heard anyone say it's a good thing beyond "maybe he will have the full range of motion after the surgery that he didn't have in college". Edited May 18, 2016 by What a Tuel
Mr. WEO Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I don't have time to do it, but I am sure you could replace a lot of those chorus parts with a consensus over the top negative reaction to the whole Lawson surgery thing. Of course the negativity is justified because we are...doooooooooomed whenever things don't go precisely our way. On the other hand, I don't think I have ever heard anyone say it's a good thing beyond "maybe he will have the full range of motion after the surgery that he didn't have in college". The difference is that this took me about 30 seconds. Also...."precisely"?? Most would be happy for "occasionally somewhat".
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I don't understand why some think he needs to sit the whole season. If he's cleared to play, he's cleared to play. He will be cleared to practice weeks before he plays in a game. It's football, not brain surgery. He's played his whole life. Maybe they ease him in with 50% snaps early in his return. I'm sure he will rotate initially like a lot of rookies. As a rookie he's here to help but the season doesn't hang on him. Where to start. OK, here. With the "If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play" thing. I was refreshing my memory on Torrell Troup last night (you know, one pick ahead of Gronkowski?). In the linked article, Ty Dunne describes how Troup actually fractured a disc in his back during the final preseason game, sat out 3 weeks, then was "medically cleared" and returned to play 6 games - with a fractured disc, doped up on Toradol - until he simply couldn't bend at the waist and was in constant agony the needle couldn't touch. As reported by Dunne, when asked who wanted him to play, Troup responded: "“The position coach, the head coach, the general manager, everybody but the other players.” Troup wound up needing the following season to continue the recovery from his back surgery and was cut in 2013, now retired. Dunne reports "An interview request with the Bills’ training staff was turned down by the team. But fresh off the golf course, Nix is asked this question. Troup was in pain. Nobody on the Bills stepped in. Why? “Everybody has different thresholds of pain,” Nix said, “and nobody knows what kind of pain you’re in except you. Medically, he was cleared to play." Another poster commented that it's probably a misapprehension that the medical staff "clears" potential draftees medically. Rather, they comment on the severity, prognosis, and risk of the injury and then the GM and coaches take that info and digest it somehow and make a call. When the player is on the team already, that's a call that may or may not be in a player's best long term career interest, that may be influenced by the career trajectory of the GM and coach with or without that player. If it's left to the player, he may want to play because there's always someone behind him. "If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play." Aaron Williams was cleared to play - and reinjured himself, and needed neck surgery. His playing future is up in the air until he gives and receives hits. Torrell Troup was cleared to play. It ended his career, requiring surgery and a year of extreme pain and disability. I know, I know, anecdotes. But the judgement is looking questionable somewhere along the lines, at times. Then let's move on to "As a rookie he's here to help but the season doesn't hang on him". Serious question: Why? We lost Mario, amidst questions about how hard he tried last season, but we clearly need someone at DE going hard to make the D work. Wasn't Shaq Lawson supposed to be the answer? Whaley made strong statements extolling our draft as giving us "Three Day One Starters." Pre-draft, it was explained that the Bills would fill gaps through the draft since our cap doesn't permit shopping during free agency. So how do you reach "he's here to help but the season doesn't hang on him" from those statements? i know I haven't kept up on all the threads and maybe I'm missing something but this isn't the first rookie to start the season injured. I'm not sure it is as outrageous as some are making it out to be. It's preventative surgery. Of course, players with no injury history at all do get injured in training camp and start the rookie season injured. But I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around your "preventative surgery" concept. If the guy has a known injury he's been playing through with a brace, and if he did something that exacerbated it, there's an existing injury. So how can the surgery be "preventative"?
What a Tuel Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 The difference is that this took me about 30 seconds. Also...."precisely"?? Most would be happy for "occasionally somewhat". Well to be fair, I was looking to be accurate for mine.
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