John from Riverside Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 It's not nearly as important as it used to be. Disrupting the QB is crucial for defenses in today's game considering the rule changes and the increase of emphasis in the passing game on offense.... We were among the best in the league at this in 2014.... Last year not so much.... ehhhh......Shaq Lawson? The whole situation is extremely frustrating. Also wouldn't surprise me if they knew he needed it right away the whole time, but they wanted him anyway. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Or it's just your confirmation bias at work... considering the organization is new from the top on down. it's not though. Whaley was a holdover from the Ralph era, as are many of the scouts and other OBD personnel. At any rate, this organization continues to think it is smarter than everyone else and it keeps f'ing up. Why does a "win now" team desperate for edge rush help draft a guy in the first round with serious medical issues? (And yes, a d-lineman who needs shoulder surgery, now or later, has serious medical issues.). This franchise has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 It's just typical Bills if true. Lol no wonder the guy dropped. Seems some teams knew something the Bills obviously didn't. How is it typical? Are you saying he still can't have a great career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 Not sure if already linked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Not sure if already linked...good read. He's a perfect fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 it's not though. Whaley was a holdover from the Ralph era, as are many of the scouts and other OBD personnel. At any rate, this organization continues to think it is smarter than everyone else and it keeps f'ing up. Why does a "win now" team desperate for edge rush help draft a guy in the first round with serious medical issues? (And yes, a d-lineman who needs shoulder surgery, now or later, has serious medical issues.). This franchise has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Leadership comes from the top down. I won't bother drudging up old history, but it's clear (to me) that Ralph was holding this team back from competing in the modern NFL in a number of ways. The Pegulas, who have only had their hands on the wheel for less than 2 years, have already demonstrated what a difference fresh leadership can make. Russ Brandon doesn't make football decisions, he's a whipping boy by folks who need to cling to the ghosts of the past. Whaley's been really good compared to the GMs that came before him during this drought, whether he's a Ralph holdover or not is irrelevant when you look at the talent on the roster since he took over. The guy hasn't been perfect, but he hasn't been a problem either. I'm not arguing you can't doubt them, just doubt them for the right reasons. Doubt the Pegulas because they have no experience owning an NFL team -- that's completely valid -- but let's at least acknowledge that the "same old Bills" is a misnomer. This is a new franchise in how it approaches building teams and competing in the league. They've shown this with their approach to retaining their own talent, the money put into the coaching staff and facilities... sooner or later that's going to show up on the field. Or at least that's the hope. As for Shaq's issues, if they are indeed as dire as they sound, there's no reason the guy can't have a long and successful career even if he misses this season. Personally, all things being equal, I would have taken Jack but clearly he's even riskier medically speaking than Shaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Leadership comes from the top down. I won't bother drudging up old history, but it's clear (to me) that Ralph was holding this team back from competing in the modern NFL in a number of ways. The Pegulas, who have only had their hands on the wheel for less than 2 years, have already demonstrated what a difference fresh leadership can make. Russ Brandon doesn't make football decisions, he's a whipping boy by folks who need to cling to the ghosts of the past. Whaley's been really good compared to the GMs that came before him during this drought, whether he's a Ralph holdover or not is irrelevant when you look at the talent on the roster since he took over. The guy hasn't been perfect, but he hasn't been a problem either. I'm not arguing you can't doubt them, just doubt them for the right reasons. Doubt the Pegulas because they have no experience owning an NFL team -- that's completely valid -- but let's at least acknowledge that the "same old Bills" is a misnomer. This is a new franchise in how it approaches building teams and competing in the league. They've shown this with their approach to retaining their own talent, the money put into the coaching staff and facilities... sooner or later that's going to show up on the field. Or at least that's the hope. As for Shaq's issues, if they are indeed as dire as they sound, there's no reason the guy can't have a long and successful career even if he misses this season. Personally, all things being equal, I would have taken Jack but clearly he's even riskier medically speaking than Shaq. I think when someone says same old bills They are just being lazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 it's not though. Whaley was a holdover from the Ralph era, as are many of the scouts and other OBD personnel. At any rate, this organization continues to think it is smarter than everyone else and it keeps f'ing up. Why does a "win now" team desperate for edge rush help draft a guy in the first round with serious medical issues? (And yes, a d-lineman who needs shoulder surgery, now or later, has serious medical issues.). This franchise has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately this is true. There have been a mountain of poor decisions made since Marrone called it quits..........and a lot of them were kinda' inexplicable "smarter than everyone else" moves that have blown up in their face. Said it many times but the good decision to sign Tyrod Taylor prevented a pile of "last year" bad decisions from manifesting into a complete collapse during the season........and this offseason they've complicated matters by waiting to address immediate needs until the draft....a recipe for failure. At least the organization is now not going to just randomly let talent walk.......but until they get a sound organizational direction and stick with it they are going to keep running the risk of stringing together series' of bad decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Same here. Myles would've been my pick. He is riskier medically speaking, but he could potential be an all decade type of player and have a MUCH bigger impact considering his ability at multiple positions compared to the type of player Lawson is. Shaq's upside doesn't touch Jack's. Him potentially missing a lot of time this year makes the pick even less attractive, IMO. I'm with you on a lot of that, though the fact there was a medical consensus on Jack is at least unsettling to me in terms of imagining him as having a long career in the league. There's higher odds Shaq will play longer, just based on the nature of their injuries. Still, I think Jack is going to be a madman in Jacksonville this year. That defense should be really fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Same here. Myles would've been my pick. He is riskier medically speaking, but he could potential be an all decade type of player and have a MUCH bigger impact considering his ability at multiple positions compared to the type of player Lawson is. Shaq's upside doesn't touch Jack's. Him potentially missing a lot of time this year makes the pick even less attractive, IMO. Jack has noted medical issues.....issues that might not allow him to make it to his next contract We have a message board rumor about a medical issue for Shaq Lawson that there might be something wrong I personally love Shaq Lawson's game.....and he brings strengths tot he team in more then one way We have absolutely no idea what way this is going to go....so start bagging on it a week after the draft is.....well....that just seems wrong to me Unfortunately this is true. There have been a mountain of poor decisions made since Marrone called it quits..........and a lot of them were kinda' inexplicable "smarter than everyone else" moves that have blown up in their face. Said it many times but the good decision to sign Tyrod Taylor prevented a pile of "last year" bad decisions from manifesting into a complete collapse during the season........and this offseason they've complicated matters by waiting to address immediate needs until the draft....a recipe for failure. At least the organization is now not going to just randomly let talent walk.......but until they get a sound organizational direction and stick with it they are going to keep running the risk of stringing together series' of bad decisions. What were the bad decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 So if Jack plays at an all pro level for 6 years, its not worth it? Hell even 4 or 5 years its not worth it? Absolutely it is, IMO. But what if he only plays 8 games? There's another side to that coin, and when you're talking about first round picks (and the money given to them), being risk adverse isn't the worst trait for a front office to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I think when someone says same old bills They are just being lazy Funny, I think when someone ridicules a post without offering an actual take or any analysis, THAT'S "just being lazy". But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Lawson dropped with a shoulder problem, Ragland got red flagged shortly before the draft for a heart issue and also dropped out of the first round. Either we know more than everyone else or we are turning a blind eye too things that most teams aren't. All fine and dandy but if your going to tempt fate with pre-existing injuries and conditions why not swing for the fences with Jack? Kujo was another talented kid with red flags galore but yet we couldn't resist. If Lawson is going under the knife that is going to set back his rookie season. I know it seems like piling on but really it's just voicing the confusion that this front office is pushing forth. If in fact he is hurt and needs a procedure how about getting it done and stop yapping about how you drafted 3 guys who are going to start day 1. That places unrealistic expectations on an injured Lawson, a player in Washington who needs time, and Ragland who is dealing with a health issue that dropped him a good 20 spots in the draft. I know I'm not a doctor etc. etc., I know it's May so if we can't be optimistic now when can we...lets just hope the health issues are overblown and everyone else was wrong not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Funny, I think when someone ridicules a post without offering an actual take or any analysis, THAT'S "just being lazy". But that's just me. Ahem "it's not though. Whaley was a holdover from the Ralph era, as are many of the scouts and other OBD personnel" So in your mind the smart thing to do is a complete house cleaning.....that is so smart. An organization that just had the top 5 defense in the league and a GM that has shown that he can draft well is not going to tear down the organization from top to bottom and start over at least not if they want to get things going in the right direct quickly. At any rate, this organization continues to think it is smarter than everyone else and it keeps f'ing up. Please explain how they continuing to F up and think they are smarter then everyone else.....a little more detail would be appreciated here not just a blanked statement. Why does a "win now" team desperate for edge rush help draft a guy in the first round with serious medical issues? First of all.....we dont even know what these "serious medical issues" are yet....we have a Sheftner report rebuked by the team and player....and a internet message board drop that everyone is freaking out about.......and you contrive "serious medical issues" from this? How about you wait to see whats what before you spew as fact? (And yes, a d-lineman who needs shoulder surgery, now or later, has serious medical issues.). Yet the kid has played with it in college......how serious could it be if he was playing with it? I laugh at how message board armchair qbs think they know more then the medical docs for these NFL teams that evaluate these players before giving them multi million dollar contracts. Staying at holiday in once doesnt make anyone here an expert on ANY of this or know the situation at this point. This franchise has not earned the benefit of the doubt." Who would you have drafted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) What were the bad decisions it started immediately. Ryan deciding to terminate Schwartz and scrap a strong defense to force his system on the team instead of trying to build on success. Devastatingly poor head coaching decision. Then announcing that the top two needs were a big WR and a NT.........and then addressing neither...while instead going rogue and impulse purchasing a bad fit RB to a huge contract......trading a pick that was the perfect piece to trade for Brandon Marshall......for Matt Cassel....a bum who couldn't pass a physical(is there a trend with medicals here?)......then after letting Marshall get away to a division rival they paid the ultra-unreliable Percy Harvin......NOT a big WR. Marshall had what would have been the greatest season for a Bills WR ever. Being unwilling to pay perhaps the one player they truly needed in FA.......David Harris........$8M per year after doling out a $40M deal for a luxury item at RB. Not adequately preparing the defense for the season and then putting a $16M pass rushing monster DT at NT. There were some seriously stupid decisions made......things that go against common sense.......trying to fix things that aren't broken.......trading for and overpaying bad fit players and not being nearly as aggressive with ones they needed.........I mean this was a team that was trending up and was the kind of season that Tyrod put up from being a 12 win team.......and they ended up worse than the season before. Edited May 16, 2016 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Negative This is the scheme that Seattle uses and have been a playoff team for a while now...... For that matter.....Denver? enlighten me how we are like seattle or denver. please. once you think about it, here is how we are not: we do not have the safeties that the seahawks have which enable them to constantly rush up the middle with very underrated linebackers who stop the run. the safeties there, also step up excellently to stop the run. we don't have that. in denver - well, they have a swarm of top end talent that was highly underappreciated. prior to them going to the superbowl and winning everyone would have just thought of them as a flash in the pan, non amazing defense. they may have been the best defense - ever. if not, a close debate between baltimores best year. regardless, what denver had on defense was a consuming front end approach with linebackers who covered every inch of the short field. something we cannot do, something we do not have the talent to do right now. and they had safeties that did not get beat deep. we have those. denver closed a seam like 14 yr old slave labor nike shoe maker. good read. He's a perfect fit. he really is but unfortunately there are some serious questions that we will need to answer about his health and durability. i still believe he will be similar to chris kelsey. good read. He's a perfect fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 he really is but unfortunately there are some serious questions that we will need to answer about his health and durability. i still believe he will be similar to chris kelsey. Its a SHOULDER. He'll be ok. I think he will out perform Kelsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Its a SHOULDER. He'll be ok. I think he will out perform Kelsay. . not in this scheme. he will be an edge setter and pocket pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 it started immediately. Ryan deciding to terminate Schwartz and scrap a strong defense to force his system on the team instead of trying to build on success. Devastatingly poor head coaching decision. One of the ones I agree with although I dont know how possible it was to even keep Schwartz....... Then announcing that the top two needs were a big WR and a NT.........and then addressing neither...while instead going rogue and impulse purchasing a bad fit RB to a huge contract..... We traded for a top 5 running back in the league for a LB that is now on his 3rd team. I know your upset about the contact but its not our money. By the way injuries does not count as mistakes. Hamstrings are tricky and any one at any time get get one of these type of injuries and they can linger all season. I also have a problem with basing right or wrong after year 1 decisions. If Shady comes out this year and has a great season.....is it still a bad trade? You will probably think it was because of the contract. I wont because it will not have prevented us from doing anything we wanted to do. .trading a pick that was the perfect piece to trade for Brandon Marshall......for Matt Cassel....a bum who couldn't pass a physical(is there a trend with medicals here?)......then after letting Marshall get away to a division rival they paid the ultra-unreliable Percy Harvin......NOT a big WR. Marshall had what would have been the greatest season for a Bills WR ever. mistake number 2 (or 3 depending on how you look at it) Being unwilling to pay perhaps the one player they truly needed in FA.......David Harris........$8M per year after doling out a $40M deal for a luxury item at RB. Are we talking about David Harris who is now getting long in the tooth when we drafted a David Harris clone for a fraction of the cost and have him at the beginning of his career? Not adequately preparing the defense for the season and then putting a $16M pass rushing monster DT at NT. Or was it a complex defense that the team needed time to get experience under their belt with? Once again that 1 year thing. There were some seriously stupid decisions made......things that go against common sense.......trying to fix things that aren't broken.......trading for and overpaying bad fit players and not being nearly as aggressive with ones they needed.........I mean this was a team that was trending up and was the kind of season that Tyrod put up from being a 12 win team.......and they ended up worse than the season before. I am counting 2-3 that are valid here......you do realize that you can look at nearly every team in the league and see these exact same plus minus on the good decisions bad decisions? its just too early for this kind of talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 not in this scheme. he will be an edge setter and pocket pressure Maybe you need to look at Kelsay's numbers again. I liked him but they were far from remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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