3rdand12 Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 over or under: 5 Sacks. take your bet, state your claim. over, if he starts game one. i expect hurries and pressures from this defense over or under: 15 tackles GO BILLS!!! over. He will be tested early and often in the season if not all season long against the run. if rex thinks he is 3 down material he will easily beat the over How about Passes defensed ? ha !
RobRyanFan Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 Shaq will finish the season with 500 sacks and 1 million tackles.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 over or under: 5 Sacks. take your bet, state your claim. Depends on how the rumors shake out. If he misses a bunch of time than 5 sacks might be ambitious. If he plays a full 16 19 games, then under 5 sacks would be a let down. over or under: 15 tackles GO BILLS!!!
BADOLBILZ Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 Shaq will finish the season with 500 sacks and 1 million tackles. Rob Ryan is the key. Before.......2-3 rookies starting in a Rex Ryan defense? Craziness. I mean, veterans struggle to pick it up. Calvin Pryor came into the NFL about as ready as they come and even he struggled in RR defense as a rookie before starting to excel this past year under Bowles. But Rob Ryan is the rookie whisperer........he will make the transition seamless. Someone else has to handle the vets of course......veterans have been *somewhat* less successful in his defenses recently. I expect them to signal in the defense with giant flash cards just like they do at Clemson so that Shaq is more comfortable than CJ Spiller was in his first few years of having plays called in a huddle situation.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 over or under: 5 Sacks. take your bet, state your claim. I'm taking over but not way over. 7 is the number in my head (if healthy).
BADOLBILZ Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 I'm taking over but not way over. 7 is the number in my head (if healthy). That's near team leader territory in a Rex D. I think the only year he has actually had anyone get 10 or more sacks since he left Baltimore was 2013(Pace 10 Wilkerson 10.5). I will take the under. Thinkin' 4 if he doesn't end up on the shelf with the bad shoulder. How f'd would it be if Jack played 16 and Shaq spent the year on IR? Drafffffin for need....
Kirby Jackson Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 That's near team leader territory in a Rex D. I think the only year he has actually had anyone get 10 or more sacks since he left Baltimore was 2013(Pace 10 Wilkerson 10.5). I will take the under. Thinkin' 4 if he doesn't end up on the shelf with the bad shoulder. How f'd would it be if Jack played 16 and Shaq spent the year on IR? Drafffffin for need.... The pressure will be better this year. Shaq feels pretty refined to me. He sets the edge well and gets into the backfield. I don't think that he has huge upside (hope that I am wrong) but he feels like a guy that will always be between about 7-10 sacks while playing good run defense. I don't see a year where he has like 15 as some of these freaks are pumping out now. I feel similarly about Bosa.
John from Riverside Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 Yeah he's a much bigger, rangier talent than RR but the best thing about McClain is that he is very smart. Rolando is also on what....his 3rd team in 5 years? I think where a player is taken in drafts is also notable McClain = pick number 8 of the first round Ragland = 2nd round pick So the question becomes.....in 2 years how close does Ragland's performance match McClains? We of course do that know that yet. IMO Rex is looking for his next David Harris (a much better comparison) if Ragland's career matches David Harris career then the pick was a success. Ragland is reportedly NOT very smart. I personally dont care if he cant write his own name as long as he understands football. It's kind of a slam dunk difference between the two. Possibly.....but the question becomes why are NFL teams not smart enough to keep Rolando a key part of their plans? Could it be that he is just not very much of a leader of men? To much of a locker room headache? Now....Im reaching cuz I dont know the answer to any of that. McClain has had his issues but he's a proven commodity and I figured a 3 year deal was going to get him out of Dallas and there is no reason to believe it would not have. Now....this is an interesting part of the equation. Both Buffalo and Dallas have shown the want to take players who are high on talent......but have issues in one way or another....but in this case (provided Buffalo was even in on McClain....Dallas got him) the two teams both take the headaches but Buffalo decided to go with the rook. The position simply is not valued.......asked Dansby. I think it is valued based on on the said team. For instance....we DO value the position....and the running back position based on our player choices....but we dont value say....safety as much as other teams might because we let Byrd go. If pass rushers of that talent level became teams would be forking out the dough. Provided we needed to. We have handed out a lot of money already and we didnt have a lot this year.....so we used the draft in weak areas. You know....I was watching the NFL combine this year and I thought it was interesting one of the female reporters was asking questions about edge rushers answer "there are never enough" And we took an edge rusher because he fell......seems like a logical choice to me. And that's part of the equation........is this a guy who's going to be a big difference maker long term and warrant a big second contract? Time will tell. Is Ragland a stud MLB? Does he have better coverage ability then he has shown when he is overweight? Is he a leader of men. Probably not in the case of RR. Rex will try to prop him up but I will be surprised if he's still viewed as a "special" player in a couple years. My question in this is what will be considered "Special"in a year .....100 tackles? Much improved run defense? Maybe a few sacks from inside blitzes? The Bills have become notorious for these type of need picks with their second and third overall picks in a draft. Everybody takes need picks.....this is not just the bills. I actually thought the bills stayed pretty true to their board. Take Robert Woods........people were happy because he could be a "starter" but after a while you realize that quality doesn't end at "starter". I think you draft talent and let the chips fall where they may......Robert is a pretty darn good number 2.......You keep drafting till you get a number 1....which we did. High ceilings are important in early rounds. I agree with this....but I think its more "High ceilings that can make immediate contributions" my exception to this is QB......but that is why I agreed with the C. Jones pick. We had a incoming starter......EJ Manuel for the next year still gives you probably some of the best number 2 QB stats in the league (none of them are good) so you take a player with huge upside without any intention of playing him first year. IMO Shaq's ceiling is not high.........I want a pass rusher with a good set of elite physical traits that will translate to the NFL with development.......I want a Justin Houston type opposite Hughes.......not a guy whose max falls somewhere between Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram. Tough to say.....but I think it will depend on how Shaq is used.....he isnt just one of those guys that if you get your hands on him he is finished....he actually is more like a young Mario Williams because of his "power to speed" the last time we were talking about pure speed rushers we got Aaron Maybin who got thrown around like a little girl.....this guy is natural bull strong and you can see it in his play. The bills certainly were excited when they got him. I've mentioned the Ingram comparison and he had something of a breakout year last year but even though he and Shaq are very similar in size and athletic numbers, Ingram is a guy who can really drop and can also play inside if necessary. He's a little better athlete. Lawson can also do that.....I dont agree that Ingram is a better athlete then Shaq Lawson. We will need to see what Shaq's drop skills actually are because he is an athletic guy. If Shaq doesn't turn into a double digit sack guy he's going to become a journeyman like Upshaw. Teams just don't settle for a lack of pass rush very often. I really hope that is not the case......the Upshaw comparison to me is a scary one although at this point I dont think these guys are alike. I hope I am wrong and his attitude and hustle translates but I see a guy who is slow off the ball and has to kinda' negotiate his way to the QB. I see a guy so is not a speed rusher but does have a great first step.....then I see a guy who is strong enough that he does not get swallowed up by OT's because has no secondary pass rush move. Shaq appears to already have some pretty good skills in his spin move and hand placement.
billsfan89 Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 I think Lawson gets 5-6 sacks if healthy. Which for a rookie is a nice boost to the pass rush and considering that he is a big player projected to do well against the run that's a nice value to add some sacks in the pass rush and hold edge well against the run. I also think with Dareus, Hughes, and Kyle Williams if healthy the Bills pass rush could round back into form much better, Maybe even Washington can add 3-4 sacks and make the defense feel more like a swarm.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted May 15, 2016 Posted May 15, 2016 Sacks? I don't know if that's the best measure considering Hughes is still their speed rusher. How about...tackles for loss? It will be his job to set the edge on run plays and will rotationally rush the QB. That seems like a better assessment.
Coach Tuesday Posted May 15, 2016 Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) Sacks? I don't know if that's the best measure considering Hughes is still their speed rusher. How about...tackles for loss? It will be his job to set the edge on run plays and will rotationally rush the QB. That seems like a better assessment. Agreed. Shaq is not a passrusher - he's an edge-setter who will (if healthy) improve the run defense. His sacks will be of the coverage sack variety (BADOL, keep in mind that Ingram had very few opportunities for that given SD's backfield woes). The thing about the Shaq-Ragland draft that irks me is that it doesn't seem designed to address the biggest threat to the Bills' success: stopping the Patriots' quick-strike, two lethal TE offense. Adding a couple of edge/run defenders does very little to stop what the Patriots do... I too would've taken Miles Jack, and perhaps Vernon Butler if they could've swung a trade down with Dallas or someone else to add picks. Imagine if they had come out of the draft with Jack, Butler, and someone else like Reed or Bell... I'd be much happier with the haul given the offenses we face. Edited May 15, 2016 by Coach Tuesday
Beerball Posted May 15, 2016 Author Posted May 15, 2016 Agreed. Shaq is not a passrusher - he's an edge-setter who will (if healthy) improve the run defense. His sacks will be of the coverage sack variety (BADOL, keep in mind that Ingram had very few opportunities for that given SD's backfield woes). The thing about the Shaq-Ragland draft that irks me is that it doesn't seem designed to address the biggest threat to the Bills' success: stopping the Patriots' quick-strike, two lethal TE offense. Adding a couple of edge/run defenders does very little to stop what the Patriots do... I too would've taken Miles Jack, and perhaps Vernon Butler if they could've swung a trade down with Dallas or someone else to add picks. Imagine if they had come out of the draft with Jack, Butler, and someone else like Reed or Bell... I'd be much happier with the haul given the offenses we face. I get the concept, but, is it right to build a team to defeat a specific team vs. building the best team possible? (not mutually exclusive, you could get both, but, that's not what you're proposing)
Coach Tuesday Posted May 15, 2016 Posted May 15, 2016 I get the concept, but, is it right to build a team to defeat a specific team vs. building the best team possible? (not mutually exclusive, you could get both, but, that's not what you're proposing) The Patriots are just an example of the modern trend towards quick-strike, spread-the-defense passing attacks that dominate today's NFL. The "run and stop the run" approach is outdated, as is the Al Davis size/speed approach to drafting...
Beerball Posted May 15, 2016 Author Posted May 15, 2016 The Patriots are just an example of the modern trend towards quick-strike, spread-the-defense passing attacks that dominate today's NFL. The "run and stop the run" approach is outdated, as is the Al Davis size/speed approach to drafting... So, we are doomed as long as Whaley is doing Rex's bidding?
26CornerBlitz Posted May 15, 2016 Posted May 15, 2016 Agreed. Shaq is not a passrusher - he's an edge-setter who will (if healthy) improve the run defense. His sacks will be of the coverage sack variety (BADOL, keep in mind that Ingram had very few opportunities for that given SD's backfield woes). The thing about the Shaq-Ragland draft that irks me is that it doesn't seem designed to address the biggest threat to the Bills' success: stopping the Patriots' quick-strike, two lethal TE offense. Adding a couple of edge/run defenders does very little to stop what the Patriots do... I too would've taken Miles Jack, and perhaps Vernon Butler if they could've swung a trade down with Dallas or someone else to add picks. Imagine if they had come out of the draft with Jack, Butler, and someone else like Reed or Bell... I'd be much happier with the haul given the offenses we face. Not true at all. Shaq is a good pass rusher with a different moves in his repertoire.
Nanker Posted May 15, 2016 Posted May 15, 2016 So, we are doomed as long as Whaley is doing Rex's bidding? If only, if ONLY Whales would listen to reason... you know, like the kind that's oozing from TSW in every thread. We'd have at least seven Lombardis housed at OBD now doubt.
aristocrat Posted May 15, 2016 Posted May 15, 2016 The Patriots are just an example of the modern trend towards quick-strike, spread-the-defense passing attacks that dominate today's NFL. The "run and stop the run" approach is outdated, as is the Al Davis size/speed approach to drafting... seattle, den, car, pitt, zona, kc, ne, hous all in top 10 for rush defense.
Coach Tuesday Posted May 15, 2016 Posted May 15, 2016 So, we are doomed as long as Whaley is doing Rex's bidding? Sure, that's exactly what I said.
Beerball Posted May 15, 2016 Author Posted May 15, 2016 Sure, that's exactly what I said. What you said was the Bills are using an antiquated approach that no longer works. So if you don't think it's because of Rex you must think that it is Whaley. I think that's worse really.
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