Wayne Arnold Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 No as I stated Fitz certainly can walk away. He is playing a game of chicken with himself though. The Jets certainly can start Geno. They were ready to start him last year. Fitz wasn't brought in to be the starter last year. He did play well in spots but he put up volume stats not quality stats. He only completed 59.5 % of his passes (29th in the league) for 6.9 ypa (27th in the league) for a rating of 88 (24th in the league). Also people need to adjust their qb expectations with the volume stats. He did indeed pass for 3900 yards (15th in the league), his 31 tds only put him at 10th in the league, and he was 5th in the league for ints. So he is bottom half of the league in completion %, ypa, qb rating, and ints. Looking beyond the numbers is important for this conversation. 3900 yards and 31 tds sounds great until you put it in context of the rest of the league and rest of his stats. See above. Geno can do all of that with the exception of maybe the yards/tds. However extrapolating out his game that he came in as a sub from last year (freely admit not a guarantee) would put him at 4240 yards and 32 tds. I'll beat it to death but Fitz put up volume stats not quality stats. Fitz is the difference between a 8-8 Jets season and a 3-13 Jets season. That's a fact. Fitz is doing everything right...as expected. He doesn't need training camp. He's a 33-year old vet who knows the system nearly better than the offensive coordinator himself knows it. Wait until mid-August, sign a deal and begin the season. Or if the Jets are really trying to screw him on a contract then he can wait until October to sign when the fans are raving and the Jets are 0-6 with terrible QB play.
Gugny Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Fitz is the difference between a 8-8 Jets season and a 3-13 Jets season. That's a fact. Fitz is doing everything right...as expected. He doesn't need training camp. He's a 33-year old vet who knows the system nearly better than the offensive coordinator himself knows it. Wait until mid-August, sign a deal and begin the season. Or if the Jets are really trying to screw him on a contract then he can wait until October to sign when the fans are raving and the Jets are 0-6 with terrible QB play. I think he's the difference between an 11-5 season and a 3-13 season. Fitz on the Jets makes them the 2nd best team in the division with a HUGE gap between the 3rd and 4th teams.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I think he's the difference between an 11-5 season and a 3-13 season. Fitz on the Jets makes them the 2nd best team in the division with a HUGE gap between the 3rd and 4th teams. Sniffing glue will kill ya' Gug.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) I think he's the difference between an 11-5 season and a 3-13 season. Fitz on the Jets makes them the 2nd best team in the division with a HUGE gap between the 3rd and 4th teams. Except the Bills have beaten them 5 straight times by a combined score of 162 - 74. That's an average of 17.6 points a game. Not sure where you are seeing that gap? Edited July 27, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Wayne Arnold Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) I think he's the difference between an 11-5 season and a 3-13 season. Fitz on the Jets makes them the 2nd best team in the division with a HUGE gap between the 3rd and 4th teams. lol no. He's significantly better than the other bums the Jets have. But he's not Aaron Rodgers. Edited July 27, 2016 by Wayne Arnold
YoloinOhio Posted July 27, 2016 Author Posted July 27, 2016 @jasonlacanfora Some who know Ryan Fitzpatrick well believe his standoff with the Jets will end sooner rather than later.
section122 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 He set franchise records with the Jets. As I said before, he is betting against them. Geno can do all the above, except put up yards and TD's? Okay. So Geno cannot break the franchise records set by Fitz. The only record he could break is most INT's in a season. He will not be 10th in TD's. How will BMarsh and Decker feel when they have 2 TD's each for the whole year? The team will implode without Fitz. I'm saying definitively yes he can do that. I won't say that he can do the yards and tds because we haven't seen it yet. Guess what though? Until last year we hadn't seen it from Fitz either. Again you are hung up on volume stats. Both of those franchise records speak to the league and its rules more so than Fitz and his talent. His franchise record yards was 15th in the league phrasing is important. You frame it as some amazing feat when it is simply average. Is he better than Geno at this stage? Absolutely. That in no way means that the Jets must sign him. Fitz is exactly who he showed as the Bills Qb. A guy that will play well in spurts, is easy to root for, and one of the last qbs you want trying to win you a game. So the question becomes is it better to go forward with Fitz and be an average team, or is it better to see once and for all what you have with Geno, or is it better to sink or swim with one of the young guys (likely Hackenburg). I think the Jets want Fitz back but can't afford his asking price and he doesn't want back for what they can afford. Hence the impasse. I agree wholeheartedly that Fitz makes the Jets better. I don't think he has them over a barrel as it seems you do. The Jets can move forward without him and I don't think it has a drastic effect on the win total. The Jets have one of the hardest schedules in the leagues and will be lucky to make 8-8 no matter who their qb is. Fitz is the difference between a 8-8 Jets season and a 3-13 Jets season. That's a fact. Fitz is doing everything right...as expected. He doesn't need training camp. He's a 33-year old vet who knows the system nearly better than the offensive coordinator himself knows it. Wait until mid-August, sign a deal and begin the season. Or if the Jets are really trying to screw him on a contract then he can wait until October to sign when the fans are raving and the Jets are 0-6 with terrible QB play. I don't think you can claim that as fact.... I will agree with your second paragraph and stated as much earlier in the thread. Back to your first post, suppose it is fact, is 8-8 with Fitz at 12 million better than 3-13 with cap space and the ability to target a top qb in the draft? Certainly a debatable point. I just don't see Fitz being a 5 win difference maker in this league so I can't see your post as fact. I did a little more digging on his game logs.... Fitz passed for more than 300 yards once last year He had 3 or more tds in 3 games He had 3 or more ints in 2 games He had less than 50% completion in 3 games He had less than 60% completion in 7 games This screams caretaker more than quality starter. I don't see a 5 win difference between him and others that could be trotted out there. Add in the fact that Forte will help the ground and short passing game and the Jets could be fine without Fitz. He has nowhere else to go.
Gugny Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Except the Bills have beaten them 5 straight times by a combined score of 162 - 74. That's an average of 17.6 points a game. Not sure where you are seeing that gap? I'm seeing it in last year's final standings. Just because the Bills beat the Jets twice, doesn't make the Bills the better team. The team with more wins, and playing meaningful games in week 17, is the better team every single time.
Luxy312 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 At the end of the day, I've said the same thing since day 1. This thread is just categorically wrong in thinking that Fitzpatrick is "calling his shot". If there was another team interested, an argument could be made. There hasn't been a single team to even sniff in his direction, and for good reason. 11 years in the NFL with 6 different teams and basically a "middling" QB. Point to just last season, and you're just cherry picking. His completion percentage, yards per attempt, and many other measures of a QB were average to below average. Setting franchise records for a season doesn't mean much when you look at the last couple of decades for the team. Chad Pennington? Vinny Testaverde? Is that really achieving all that much? Being a turnover machine in a must-win game against an opponent with nothing to gain by winning doesn't help either. Also Tell me that the Jets don't have any other options at the position. They've only drafted Geno Smith, Bryce Petty and now Christian Hackenburg since the "Sanchize" fiasco, and that's in the last 4 years. 3 QB's that the organization said may all be franchise guys in just 4 years. Fitzpatrick was signed last year as a stop-gap, period. Geno Smith wasn't ready to be a starter last year, but is getting a lot of praise right now. Bryce Petty is just a year removed from being hailed as the next franchse quarterback as well, but with questions of his ability to make reads. Now que this year with the Jets drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd and they're sitting with THREE QB's not named Fitzpatrick. Any measurable amount of success by any of the 3, and I can see the Jets pulling the offer off the table. If we get to the second preseason game and there's no Fitzpatrick, look for him to be watching games at home on Sundays this year. I'm seeing it in last year's final standings. Just because the Bills beat the Jets twice, doesn't make the Bills the better team. The team with more wins, and playing meaningful games in week 17, is the better team every single time. The Jets were playing a meaningful game in week 17 last year and lost on the road to a team that had nothing to gain.
Gugny Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 At the end of the day, I've said the same thing since day 1. This thread is just categorically wrong in thinking that Fitzpatrick is "calling his shot". If there was another team interested, an argument could be made. There hasn't been a single team to even sniff in his direction, and for good reason. 11 years in the NFL with 6 different teams and basically a "middling" QB. Point to just last season, and you're just cherry picking. His completion percentage, yards per attempt, and many other measures of a QB were average to below average. Setting franchise records for a season doesn't mean much when you look at the last couple of decades for the team. Chad Pennington? Vinny Testaverde? Is that really achieving all that much? Being a turnover machine in a must-win game against an opponent with nothing to gain by winning doesn't help either. Also Tell me that the Jets don't have any other options at the position. They've only drafted Geno Smith, Bryce Petty and now Christian Hackenburg since the "Sanchize" fiasco, and that's in the last 4 years. 3 QB's that the organization said may all be franchise guys in just 4 years. Fitzpatrick was signed last year as a stop-gap, period. Geno Smith wasn't ready to be a starter last year, but is getting a lot of praise right now. Bryce Petty is just a year removed from being hailed as the next franchse quarterback as well, but with questions of his ability to make reads. Now que this year with the Jets drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd and they're sitting with THREE QB's not named Fitzpatrick. Any measurable amount of success by any of the 3, and I can see the Jets pulling the offer off the table. If we get to the second preseason game and there's no Fitzpatrick, look for him to be watching games at home on Sundays this year. The Jets were playing a meaningful game in week 17 last year and lost on the road to a team that had nothing to gain. The Jets still finished with a winning record and missed the playoffs by one game. That makes them better than the Bills. A lot better.
Luxy312 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 The Jets still finished with a winning record and missed the playoffs by one game. That makes them better than the Bills. A lot better. Completely subjective.
Gugny Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Completely subjective. No. Completely backed up by the (W-L) column and the placement in the standings.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I'm seeing it in last year's final standings. Just because the Bills beat the Jets twice, doesn't make the Bills the better team. The team with more wins, and playing meaningful games in week 17, is the better team every single time. Really? Teams face all sort of different bumps along the road (and different schedules). The Bills played 2 games without their QB. The Jets didn't. The Bills had lots of other injuries along the way that the Jets didn't suffer. Yet, when they played each other the Bills won both times. To say that there is a "HUGE" gap couldn't be further from the truth. The Bills have a winning record over the last 2 years, the Jets don't. The Bills have beaten them 5 straight times. The Bills QB is in the building. The Jets isn't.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 No. Completely backed up by the (W-L) column and the placement in the standings. 5-0. Mic drop.
Luxy312 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 No. Completely backed up by the (W-L) column and the placement in the standings. Yes. H2H, the Bills were better. Overall W-L is a function of playing teams at home vs road. Buffalo was better in the AFC East, going 4-2 versus the Jets going 3-3, where both teams have common road and home games. In the AFC East where you can actually put home/road on common ground, Buffalo outscored their opponents 163-125. Jets were 148 versus 128. Pointing to record alone is a simpleton's journey.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 If I was to do a comparison of the Bills and Jets here is where I would be: -QB - Bills -RB - Bills -WR - Jets -OL - Bills -TE - Bills -DL - Jets -LB - Bills -CB - Bills -S - Jets -ST - Jets Coaching - Jets
Gugny Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Really? Teams face all sort of different bumps along the road (and different schedules). The Bills played 2 games without their QB. The Jets didn't. The Bills had lots of other injuries along the way that the Jets didn't suffer. Yet, when they played each other the Bills won both times. To say that there is a "HUGE" gap couldn't be further from the truth. The Bills have a winning record over the last 2 years, the Jets don't. The Bills have beaten them 5 straight times. The Bills QB is in the building. The Jets isn't. Right. Without Fitz, the Jets are worse than Buffalo. With him, they are better. Rex Ryan put all of his eggs into the "gotta beat the Jets basket," and it worked. For those two games. Big deal. The Jets were the better team, by far, last season. And if they sign Fitz, they'll be the better team again, by far. Regardless of head-to-head results.
FireChan Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) If I was to do a comparison of the Bills and Jets here is where I would be: -QB - Bills -RB - Bills -WR - Jets -OL - Bills -TE - Bills -DL - Jets -LB - Bills -CB - Bills -S - Jets -ST - Jets Coaching - Jetsx1000 Fixed RB is close, IMO. Edited July 27, 2016 by FireChan
section122 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 The Jets still finished with a winning record and missed the playoffs by one game. That makes them better than the Bills. A lot better. I couldn't disagree more with this statement... No. Completely backed up by the (W-L) column and the placement in the standings. Let me back up my position.... The teams had similar schedules with 2 games different. The Bills played KC and Cincinnati who were 2 playoff teams that won a combined 23 games. The Jets played Oakland and Cleveland two teams that combined for 10 wins. That is a huge disparity in quality of competition. So yes the Jets finished with a better record with a much easier schedule. Add in that the Jets lost both head to head games and I have a tough time saying the Jets were definitively the best team.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Fixed RB is close, IMO. Yeah, I think that it is too. I think that this year Forte takes a step back and I prefer the Bills depth (although they have some knuckleheads).
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