YoloinOhio Posted June 7, 2016 Author Posted June 7, 2016 Agent's Take: How to end the absurdity between Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Jets http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-how-to-end-the-absurdity-between-ryan-fitzpatrick-and-the-jets/
Luxy312 Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Agent's Take: How to end the absurdity between Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Jets http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-how-to-end-the-absurdity-between-ryan-fitzpatrick-and-the-jets/ Great article Yolo. With the proper context of the crappy salary cap situation that the Jets are actually facing, the "just pay him" mentality clearly falls short of reality. I didn't even realize that almost $1.8m of the $3.5m cap that they had left would likely be used still to sign draft picks. Not good!
Captain Hindsight Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 This really is an interesting off-season for the Jets. If they can't find a way to work with Fitz and bring him back, they have to put a lot of toothpaste back in the tube. They've been talking about how they expect a deal to be done and blah blah. If he doesn't and guys like Forte, Marshall and Decker who have voiced support and disappointment if Someone other than Fitz is the starter week one. Its the kind of stuff that torpedoes a team before it can suit up I hope they win 5 games and miss out on a great QB.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 My point is that the Bills had signed Fitz to a rather (at the time) expensive, middle-of-the-pack starting QB contract and Nix's statements made it clear they were going to require him to take a pay cut because in their opinion he wasn't playing to the level of that contract. If you have been the starting QB and you see the words on paper that your GM will be asking you to "do something" because you are "fighting for probably a backup job" I think that goes a long way towards making your decision for you. My point is that 1) when Nix calls you or your agent and says "the organization needs you to take a pay cut"( with explanation) then Fedexs over a new contract with lower $$, and then 2) the new coach announces in the media you will be in "open competition" with a chap who just signed for about 1/10th of your salary, you've already seen plenty of words on paper and you already know what you need to know about your position in the organization. Then you will make a business decision based on the details of the contract, whether or not the Bills are willing to negotiate on any of your sticking points (evidently, they weren't and didn't), and what you and your agent think you can get for your services elsewhere. You don't need a Catfishing phone call to make your decision. That's just food for the press and the fans.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 I do agree with you that Nix/Whaley were not aggressive in pursuing qb options from the draft or from the market. What I see is that the failure was not how he handled Fitz (I have no problem with it and you do) but the failure was not having a plan in place before he made his decision on Fitz. Strategic thinking certainly wasn't a hallmark of Nix and the organization. What should have been a priority pursuit was a secondary issue.That is more of a main issue for me than the issue of Fitz, a middling qb. i.e. getting a more credible qb. Apparently Nix felt (and maybe Whaley also?) that it was more important to bolster the roster in general before addressing the qb position. (I heard him say that on WGR on more than one occasion.) Are the Jets taking taking a risk with their paltry offer to Fitz. Yes, and I have said so. That doesn't mean that they don't have a backup plan that you or I are aware of. I'm not even sure what Elway's plans are for qb for his SB team. What appears to me is that the Jets have made a basic calculation that they are willing to pay Fitz to his talent level. Evidently it isn't too high. Hmmm, progress. We may be closer than I thought. I don't have a problem with how Nix handled Fitz per se, but rather with how he handled Fitz in the context of overall organizational decisions and the priority assigned to the QB position. (Nix obviously had a plan in place, I just look at it and say "that's a Really Bad Plan"). Can we agree that Nix's whole approach to the QB position was flawed and thus he doesn't represent a good benchmark for assessing QB value? The Jets may have a super-secret backup plan, but in today's QB market, it's totally fair to ask "WTH is it then?" It sounds like where we fundamentally disagree is that to you, the Jets contract offer is all calculating Fitz value and paying him proportionately. I think the Jets salary cap situation has a lot to do with it.
Saxum Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Ha ha How I envision it is that Fitz is home, opening presents with his kids, eating, drinking and watching basketball. He has the whole family over. The Jets are getting back from NE after getting beat by 35. They'll have about 5 wins and the excitement of last year will feel like a lifetime ago. And you probably envisioned same thing last year. Your point? It appears to be you have cataracts.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 And you probably envisioned same thing last year. Your point? It appears to be you have cataracts. So you think that the Jets are better without Fitz? He isn't great but in this exact offense he had the most TD passes and the 2nd most yards that a Jets QB has ever had. If you think that they are better off with Geno or even equal, we disagree.
Thurman#1 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Hmmm, progress. We may be closer than I thought. I don't have a problem with how Nix handled Fitz per se, but rather with how he handled Fitz in the context of overall organizational decisions and the priority assigned to the QB position. (Nix obviously had a plan in place, I just look at it and say "that's a Really Bad Plan"). Can we agree that Nix's whole approach to the QB position was flawed and thus he doesn't represent a good benchmark for assessing QB value? The Jets may have a super-secret backup plan, but in today's QB market, it's totally fair to ask "WTH is it then?" It sounds like where we fundamentally disagree is that to you, the Jets contract offer is all calculating Fitz value and paying him proportionately. I think the Jets salary cap situation has a lot to do with it. Nix's QB plan was indeed flawed, but it looks like the flaw was not drafting QBs higher than he valued them. Every year he was there he said before the draft that he wanted to leave the Bills when he left with a stable QB situation and that they were absolutely considering QBs that year. Tons of rumors saying they wanted Russell Wilson and if I remember correctly, Ponder and one other guy. Can't remember who. And finally EJ's year Nix saying that he'd finally realized that you have to draft a QB a round earlier than his value because otherwise he'd be gone. Nix was constantly talking through his first three years or so about how good drafters just don't reach, that the way to draft well was to get value. Were they going to draft Russell Wilson but not till the fourth? If true, a massive mistake. That "you have to draft them a round early" statement sure looked to me like a guy who'd been disappointed in his aim to draft a QB for a year or two in a row.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 How can there be 45 pages to this? (Fitz why didn't you have a better arm could have solve our QB problem)
YoloinOhio Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 MMQB : Why the Jets need Fitz, and Fitz needs the Jets http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/06/08/nfl-new-york-jets-quarterbacks-ryan-fitzpatrick-geno-smith-chan-gailey
ALF Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 MMQB : Why the Jets need Fitz, and Fitz needs the Jets http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/06/08/nfl-new-york-jets-quarterbacks-ryan-fitzpatrick-geno-smith-chan-gailey Last season the Jets went four-wide receiver personnel on about a third of their snaps—far and away the most in the league. When you spread out, the defense has to spread with you. That compromises the D’s ability to disguise, both in blitz and in coverage Yet the Rex D was able to beat Chan's O both times
eball Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 My point is that 1) when Nix calls you or your agent and says "the organization needs you to take a pay cut"( with explanation) then Fedexs over a new contract with lower $$, and then 2) the new coach announces in the media you will be in "open competition" with a chap who just signed for about 1/10th of your salary, you've already seen plenty of words on paper and you already know what you need to know about your position in the organization. Then you will make a business decision based on the details of the contract, whether or not the Bills are willing to negotiate on any of your sticking points (evidently, they weren't and didn't), and what you and your agent think you can get for your services elsewhere. You don't need a Catfishing phone call to make your decision. That's just food for the press and the fans. I'm pretty sure when the Bills approached Fitz's agent they didn't say he would be "fighting probably for a backup job." It's fine, we disagree, but I just don't think you can eliminate pride from the discussion after the release of the taped call.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 I'm pretty sure when the Bills approached Fitz's agent they didn't say he would be "fighting probably for a backup job." It's fine, we disagree, but I just don't think you can eliminate pride from the discussion after the release of the taped call. Nice job on the avatar eball!!
Beef Jerky Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 The Jets are screwed, it is either sign Fitz for a big amount of money and not go to the playoffs, or sign don't sign Fitz and don't go to the playoffs.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 The Jets are screwed, it is either sign Fitz for a big amount of money and not go to the playoffs, or sign don't sign Fitz and don't go to the playoffs.As far as I'm concerned they have 2 options. Option 1 is to sign Fitz and take a run at the playoffs (which they may or not make). Option 2 is to not sign Fitz, deal Wilkerson (you may get a 1st) & Marshall or Decker. Play all of the young guys and win about 4 games. At that point they will have a little cap room, 2 1sts (potentially) including a top ten pick and Revis can come off the books (I think). You will have a chance to rebuild quickly if that's the route you go. What I expect is that if they don't sign Fitz, they go "half pregnant" and try to win with the bums. They will win about 6, not get anything for Wilkerson and pick a little later. That's probably best case scenario for us.
Steve Billieve Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 How can there be 45 pages to this? (Fitz why didn't you have a better arm could have solve our QB problem) A lot of people have a soft spot in their hearts for Fitz, and he's proven that he really likes the Bills too or at least that he still thinks he plays for them sometimes when he's on the field. Plus, its the most interesting story this offseason with plenty of new coverage. 50 here we come.
JohnC Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Hmmm, progress. We may be closer than I thought. I don't have a problem with how Nix handled Fitz per se, but rather with how he handled Fitz in the context of overall organizational decisions and the priority assigned to the QB position. (Nix obviously had a plan in place, I just look at it and say "that's a Really Bad Plan"). Can we agree that Nix's whole approach to the QB position was flawed and thus he doesn't represent a good benchmark for assessing QB value? The Jets may have a super-secret backup plan, but in today's QB market, it's totally fair to ask "WTH is it then?" It sounds like where we fundamentally disagree is that to you, the Jets contract offer is all calculating Fitz value and paying him proportionately. I think the Jets salary cap situation has a lot to do with it. We are not going to totally agree on this issue. I am resolute in my position on Fitz and the caliber of qb he is. I am bedrock in agreement with Nix's stance that Fitz needed to take a pay cut and adjust his contract so that it was more in balance with his talent level. From a cap standpoint there is no doubt that the franchise took a cap hit (as you pointed out) with the dispatch of Fitz. My response to that loss of cap usage is so what! It certainly didn't have an impact on our backwater franchise's operation during the Wilson era. You have to remember that this was an organization that very often had a salary structure that was under the cap. So the loss of cap space wasn't as damaging as it would have been for a franchise that was seriously competing.. Where you and I do agree is that this second-rate organization under Nix and Whaley, too a lesser extent, didn't prioritize the position. The releasing of Fitz didn't need to be the trigger for what should have been a constant quest for a legitimate franchise qb until one was found. Even when Fitz was starting the quest should have been on full bore desperation mode to find a more accomplished starting qb, even if was to simply to get a good prospect in the pipeline. The drafting of Manuel, a third round caliber of prospect foolishly taken in the first round, was a desperate move by an incompetent GM who wanted to make sure that he had at least put someone in his corroded pipeline before he left the scene. As you noted the Jets are in a difficult cap situation. It's never been a point of disagreement between us because from the start of my multiple postings on this topic I have acknowledged it. When you sit in a small room with a gorilla and elephant you can't claim that you didn't notice that there were other sizable objects in the room with you. What's obvious is obvious. But the reality for the Jets and and all NFL teams that no matter what a team's cap situation is if you are negotiating with a qb with high-end talent you will do whatever you have to do to get the qb under contract. Even if that means cutting players or re-structuring qbs to make the numbers work. You know very well that this season if Tyrod demonstrates that he is a sterling qb the organization will do whatever needs to be done to get a deal done. That certainly isn't the case in NY because Fitz is worth that type of accommodating response. The underlying point on my excessive postings is simple: I consider Fitz to be a mediocre qb who is basically a decent backup who happens to start on a team with a void at that position. Is Fitz being underpaid as a starter? Absolutely. Are the Jets taking a risk with their hard-line negotiating stance? Absolutely. I still don't disagree with what they are doing. As I said before I believe a deal will get done but it will lean more towards the team position than the Fitz position. Fitz had a good year last year. I have acknowledged that point. However, I'm not going to over value his last year's stats as most people are doing. I firmly believe that that performance is an aberration from his standard that has been well established for a decade or so. I don't want to be too inflammatory but from my perspective what Rex is to coaching Fitz is to qbing: Wretched mediocrity that gets you nowhere. Simply fools gold. Edited June 8, 2016 by JohnC
TheFunPolice Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Here is my issue with Fitzpatrick and the whole "Fitzmagic" scam. Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey talked to us like we were children when asked about why they weren't drafting QBs. They "had their guy" and golly gee, wouldn't EVERYONE want like 2-3 picks per round? That'd sure be nice! But you see (little dumb fan) the ole NFL only gives us ONE per round, unless we trade. And we have all these other needs... Plus we got our guy! Fitz is great! No, Fitz is mediocre to bad, depending on the day. For such a smart guy he makes a ton of idiot mistakes at the worst times, which IMO is what he's doing right now with his career, assuming he still wants to play and be a starting NFL QB. He's in a spot where the Jets have him stuck and they know it. Notice other teams aren't banging down his door. But back to the original point: from 2000-2015 the Patriots* (cheating scum that they are) drafted 8 QBs, and even when it was evident that Brady was great (which was 2001) they just kept right on taking QBs. The Bills (who haven't had "a guy" who was anything more than a flash in the pan like Flutie and most were awful) drafted 4. Who can blame them? For a lot of those years they had their QB (Fitz)! The Bills management and coaches scolded us like we were children for wondering about drafting QBs because "their guy" was consistently good for 4-6 wins. So personally that's why I am no fan of Fitz and enjoy watching his inevitable, epic failures. I hope he comes back to the Jets and they win 5 games.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) We are not going to totally agree on this issue. I am resolute in my position on Fitz and the caliber of qb he is. I am bedrock in agreement with Nix's stance that Fitz needed to take a pay cut and adjust his contract so that it was more in balance with his talent level. From a cap standpoint there is no doubt that the franchise took a cap hit (as you pointed out) with the dispatch of Fitz. My response to that loss of cap usage is so what! Nope, regressing- now you're back to failing to address the clearly spelled out actual point I made (hint: the cap hit was NOT the issue) and just reiterating your already-stated viewpoint, which amounts to "straw man" when it doesn't address the point of the post it's responding to. I don't want to go off onto the Rex tangent, I'll just leave it that I've expressed doubts on our coach elsewhere and would love to be proven wrong. Edited June 9, 2016 by Hopeful
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 A lot of people have a soft spot in their hearts for Fitz, and he's proven that he really likes the Bills too or at least that he still thinks he plays for them sometimes when he's on the field. Plus, its the most interesting story this offseason with plenty of new coverage. 50 here we come.
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