Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 If The Jets plan on starting him, he should be paid as such. methinks both parties are wrong in this matter. poor foresight perhaps. also think of what message the FO is sending the players. Colts were never the same after tanking. they just have a great QB who is injured I wondered what opinion were on Foles. Thanks Kirby. Is Geno Smith really the fall back option ? I think that he is. If they decide that Fitz is too expensive they need to get a QB still IMO. They would be in worse shape than every team in the league (at least there with Denver).
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 I think that he is. If they decide that Fitz is too expensive they need to get a QB still IMO. They would be in worse shape than every team in the league (at least there with Denver). Hell of a message to send the team
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) Hell of a message to send the teamYep, their 2 top WR's have already skipped OTA's & spoke out. Forte spoke out as well. Imagine being an upcoming FA there as they negotiate with you? Everyone will feel like they are low balling them. Edited June 4, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Yep, their 2 top WR's have already skipped OTA's & spoken out. Forte spoke out as well. Imagine being an upcoming FA there as they negotiate with you? Everyone will feel like they are low balling them. Decker was forthright about a month ago. Marshall spoke but sat on the fence a bit. Decker has since changed his tone about not reporting. but it seemed too obvious a bit of posturing was going on to get Fitz back. Hate Geno or love Fitzy ??
iinii Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Why would Fitz end up taking any discount if the Jets had zero leverage? Wouldn't that be evidence the Jets had plenty of leverage? I'd think no leverage would mean Fitz had a 3 year/$50M contract in his pocket. The reality is both side have equal leverage. In any sort of negotiation, the more unequal the leverage, the quicker the other side caves. In this case, it's very even so neither side is giving in. Yes Fitz has leverage because plan B for the Jets is not appealing. That's pretty clear. However, the Jets have leverage two ways. First, they are not competing with anyone for his services, thus they have the luxury of waiting him out. Second and more importantly, because there are no other starting QB jobs available, Fitz only wants to play for the Jets. Threats of retirement or signing as a backup out of spite are negotiating ploys. Fitz is desperate to lead a team to the playoffs as a starting QB. So in summary, the Jets DO have a choice, just not a good one. Fitz doesn't, unless he's prepared to walk away from his career goals (which he would have done by now if he really didn't care). Unlike the team's, his decision is personal, not corporate which IMO make it much tougher on him to win the stare down contest. As a Bills fan, I wish they'd pay him $20M, but I think the $12M number is about where it will end up. you make good points but I stand by my assertion that Fitz is not convinced and isn't doing it for less than any of the other starters making starter money. Those same personal career goals are the same ones that won't let him play for less. The Jets need Fitz more than Fitz needs the Jets. Fitz doesn't have to play football and the Jets do.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 The Jets are making their own calculations regarding Fitz. There is no doubt that they have serious cap issues that impact the contract that they are willing to offer Fitz. The mistake that you and others are making on this issue is that you are acting as if Fitz is a key player as to whether the Jets succeed or fail. Apparently that isn't the view that the Jets are taking. With their paltry contract offer they are demonstrating to everyone how they value Fitz. In their eyes he is a mediocre bridge qb whose primary utility is to buy time until they can get a legitimate franchise qb. You bring up a good point as to where the Jets stand as a competitive team. They are an older team with a lot of veteran players who are costly and on the decline. That suggests to me that they understand that there is no short term gimmick fix. If that is the case then the front office realizes that a serious rebuild is inevitable and soon to begin. Last year the Jets were 10-6 and close to qualifying for a wildcard spot. But were they as good as their record might indicate? If you lost to the Bills and a Rex coached team twice in the same season you are not as good as the record might indicate. The fundamental difference I have with the majority of posters who are challenging my view on this issue is that I consider Fitz to be an adequate backup qb who isn't a legitimate starter in this league. For me his good stats last year were an aberration and don't reflect the caliber of qb he actually is. By the way the Jets are handling this Fitz issue they have the same viewpoint. The Jets desperately want Fitz back. I just think that part of the mistake they are making is feeling that he is still tethered to them.........when he has already proven he will not stand for being insulted. They just don't want to pay him and push debt into the future........but that is the position they've put themselves in by going "old".......not putting the best available QB on the field with this team is a very "bad organization" move. No question a lot of that concern about the future is probably the window they think they have left with Mangold, Marshall, Decker, Harris, Revis etc.. But they didn't go out and add Matt Forte and franchise Wilkerson because they are contemplating starting a rebuild.
Saxum Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 This will get done eventually. I can't see the Jets going with Geno for the season. Fans will go nuts. In general fans are nuts anyways so I do not see how it is a factor; some will continue to bash team no matter what is does. The Jest were willing to go with Geno pre-IK punch so I cannot see why they cannot go on without Fitz even if it something I would not do. Perhaps they are not willing to make changes to get more out of Fitz (and they need to do so to further) so would rather just say "Fitz is greedy, he wants too much".
BarleyNY Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/06/02/fitzpatrick-impasse-is-a-matter-of-perspective/ This is surprisingly good rationale of the current impasse from PFT. In short,
K-9 Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/06/02/fitzpatrick-impasse-is-a-matter-of-perspective/ This is surprisingly good rationale of the current impasse from PFT. In short, I think Fitz already compromised and met them in the middle with his $12m, one-year counter. GO BILLS!!!
iinii Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/06/02/fitzpatrick-impasse-is-a-matter-of-perspective/ This is surprisingly good rationale of the current impasse from PFT. In short, You can lead a N.F.L. Quarterback to water but you can't make him drink.......
Nanker Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Sure, but can you go to Harvard and not eat Harvard beets?
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) The Jets are about $22M under the 2017 cap and have about another $20-$30M that they very well want to or may have to shed because they have a lot of older players. So money is there.....the talent is about as good as it's going to be for a few seasons because they are aging so much re-inforcement will be required soon. A commitment to winning now is NOT there. We've been down that road......ours was an owner who "wants" to win......on his terms...... but isn't committed to winning. They are in a position very much like the Bills were after Mularkey's first season.........both on the field and in the locker room. You act like the Jets are being smart about it.........well the Bengals, Bills, Titans and Texans thought so too.........how did their QB situations play out the first year post-Fitz? I hope the Jets are as smart as the Bills were.........the Bills gulped down dead money to dump him and then struggled with 3 different starting QB's and then had to go to Orton the next year. If Geno or Petty or Sackenburg pan out it will have been a worthwhile risk.......otherwise they probably find themselves losing with an aging roster. The Jets desperately want Fitz back. I just think that part of the mistake they are making is feeling that he is still tethered to them.........when he has already proven he will not stand for being insulted. They just don't want to pay him and push debt into the future........but that is the position they've put themselves in by going "old".......not putting the best available QB on the field with this team is a very "bad organization" move. No question a lot of that concern about the future is probably the window they think they have left with Mangold, Marshall, Decker, Harris, Revis etc.. But they didn't go out and add Matt Forte and franchise Wilkerson because they are contemplating starting a rebuild. You summarized it much better than I have, for all the good it will do for some... I consider Fitz to be an adequate backup qb who isn't a legitimate starter in this league. You don't say.. Anyway, as Badol explains to you, the Jets want Fitz back as their starter. Couldn't be more clear. They have said as much, repeatedly. What's the point of paying any of these aging vets for another year if they have no chance to make the playoffs for a few years? Edited June 4, 2016 by Mr. WEO
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 In general fans are nuts anyways so I do not see how it is a factor; some will continue to bash team no matter what is does. The Jest were willing to go with Geno pre-IK punch so I cannot see why they cannot go on without Fitz even if it something I would not do. Perhaps they are not willing to make changes to get more out of Fitz (and they need to do so to further) so would rather just say "Fitz is greedy, he wants too much". Is this true? I have forgotten the dynamics at that point in the QB room.
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2016 Author Posted June 4, 2016 Is this true? I have forgotten the dynamics at that point in the QB room. true. Geno beat him out in camp for the starting job. They had to go with Fitz because Geno was out with the broken jaw. They made a statement a few games in that they were going to stick with Fitz even when Geno was cleared, because they had gotten off to a good start.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Is this true? I have forgotten the dynamics at that point in the QB room. Yeah, they originally were planning on Geno. It kind of became irrelevant though when Fitz broke all of their franchise records. It's similar to the Bills. Last year the Bills were prepared to start Cassel or EJ. Much like the Jets, after seeing a year with their QB in their systems neither team would consider Cassel, EJ or Geno. What you thought was okay a year ago changed significantly because of what happened on the field.
Maury Ballstein Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 You summarized it much better than I have, for all the good it will do for some... Pickspatrick
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Thanks Yolo and Mr Jackson. I appreciate the clarifications !
JohnC Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) You summarized it much better than I have, for all the good it will do for some... You don't say.. Anyway, as Badol explains to you, the Jets want Fitz back as their starter. Couldn't be more clear. They have said as much, repeatedly. What's the point of paying any of these aging vets for another year if they have no chance to make the playoffs for a few years? Sure they want Fitz back. And if that happens it will be closer to the contract they are offering him than what Fitz is requesting. That's the point that you are reluctant to acknowledge. I'll say what I have often stated that Fitz is a backup caliber of qb who happens to start. He has played for six teams not because teams were enamored with him and coveted him but because he is a temporary fill in until a better option replaces him. Even the Bills were willing to let him go! When the Bills, a qb starved team, let you go over money that certainly isn't an indication that one is an indispensable talent. You make it seem as if you have the determinative analysis that makes it compelling for the Jets to retain Fitz and bountifully pay him. So far as reflected by how the Jets are handling this case they are not buying into your reasoning. You, Badol and the majority of posters on this issue are wedded to the notion that Fitz is indispensable to the Jets. I'm saying otherwise. Mediocre talent is more replaceable than you think. If you want a compelling argument for the position the Jets are taking go back and watch Fitz's last game in Buffalo. Enough said! Edited June 4, 2016 by JohnC
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Sure they want Fitz back. And if that happens it will be closer to the contract they are offering him than what Fitz is requesting. That's the point that you are reluctant to acknowledge. I'll say what I have often stated that Fitz is a backup caliber of qb who happens to start. He has played for six teams not because teams were enamored with him and coveted him but because he is a temporary fill in until a better option replaces him. Even the Bills were willing to let him go! When the Bills, a qb starved team, let you go over money that certainly isn't an indication that one is an indispensable talent. You make it seem as if you have the determinative analysis that makes it compelling for the Jets to retain Fitz and bountifully pay him. So far as reflected by how the Jets are handling this case they are not buying into your reasoning. You, Badol and the majority of posters on this issue are wedded to the notion that Fitz is indispensable to the Jets. I'm saying otherwise. Mediocre talent is more replaceable than you think. Are you now holding up NixWhaley as the comparison for competent QB management? Strong move. Again, why pay Revis more than Fitz when Revis will have zero influence on whether the Jets go to the playoffs next year if they don't have a competent QB. Or Mangold? Or Wilkerson? Why keep them all around if it's rebuild time? If the Jets agreed with you that Fitz can be replaced by another QB, then why haven't the just let him go and bring someone in? You can't answer.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Sure they want Fitz back. And if that happens it will be closer to the contract they are offering him than what Fitz is requesting. That's the point that you are reluctant to acknowledge. I'll say what I have often stated that Fitz is a backup caliber of qb who happens to start. He has played for six teams not because teams were enamored with him and coveted him but because he is a temporary fill in until a better option replaces him. Even the Bills were willing to let him go! When the Bills, a qb starved team, let you go over money that certainly isn't an indication that one is an indispensable talent. You make it seem as if you have the determinative analysis that makes it compelling for the Jets to retain Fitz and bountifully pay him. So far as reflected by how the Jets are handling this case they are not buying into your reasoning. You, Badol and the majority of posters on this issue are wedded to the notion that Fitz is indispensable to the Jets. I'm saying otherwise. Mediocre talent is more replaceable than you think. If you want a compelling argument for the position the Jets are taking go back and watch Fitz's last game in Buffalo. Enough said! I guess where we disagree is IF the Jets are going t have Fitz back it's going to be much closer to the $12M that he offered than the $8M that they did. The Jets need Fitz way more than he needs them. If they don't have him they start one of those bums. If he doesn't play football he can do a bunch of other things. He has $40M & a Harvard education. Someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they say that the Jets have to play football, Fitz doesn't. There is no reason to run out an expensive, veteran team and a QB that isn't in the top 50 in the NFL. You should cut all of your losses, tank and try to get Watson.
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