JohnC Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 you understand that you're carrying on a conversation with the nittiest of nit pickers, right? LOL! Even Captain Obvious can see that when you get on the same carousel with certain people that you will continue to go around in circles until you jump off.
Mr. WEO Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Do you want to know what is also blatantly obvious? From a contract standpoint they are not placing much value on Fitz. It doesn't matter what you and I think. If they can't get a deal done that is closer to their terms than to Fitz's terms they will move on to the next option, whatever it may be. If they don't want to go with what they already have on the roster they will then go out and secure a similar mediocre talent. Mediocrity is very attainable---the market is full of garbage that can be had at a reasonable price. You insist on promoting the notion that Fitz is an invaluable gem that can't be replaced. That is not the case. He is what he has always been: A backup qb who periodically happens to start. Periodically happens to start? You can't make convincing arguments when you toss out laughers like this (and the Fitz is "garbage" stuff). . In Cincy, he played in 23 games and started 20 in his last two seasons. In Buffalo, he had seasons of 8, 13, 16 and 16 starts (there are 16 games in a season...). In Tenn, he had 9 starts and in Houston, 12. He started all 16 in NYJ. Anyway...It's June and they haven't moved on from Fitz, despite the ease at which you say they can do this. Why? You still are unable to explain. I haven't said Fitz in an "invaluable gem", or even insinuated as much (you are just flailing now)--I have repeatedly said what others here have also said--which is the obvious point that he is their best chance to pick up where they left off and be a playoff contender until they draft a QB decent enough to replace the 10 game winning franchise record setting QB on the roster now. The Jets are playing hardball because the screwed up their cap situation (look at what they have to pay Revis alone this year). If they had 10-20 mil in cap space, they would be much kinder to their starting QB and this would have been wrapped up months ago. Edited June 3, 2016 by Mr. WEO
Kirby Jackson Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 Guys, the worst kept secret in the NFL is that Fitz gives the Jets their best and only hope for the 2016 season. He's familiar with Chan's system, played pretty well in it, and has the chemistry with their skill players. The other QBs on the roster would be backing up Matt Cassel. Beyond 2016 is anyone's guess, but there is little question that if Fitz is not behind center for the Jets this year they will be a heaping pile of garbage on offense. 1000% agree, that's why the Jets have ZERO leverage. They have no choice. Fitz may take a discount ($12M ish) which the Jets should be thrilled with.
26CornerBlitz Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 Jets in Delicate Balancing Act with QB Situation With the ongoing Ryan Fitzpatrick-Jets contract stalemate, a once sleepy standoff has turned into a steely-eyed one. Judy Battista examines whether either side can prosper without the other.
KD in CA Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 1000% agree, that's why the Jets have ZERO leverage. They have no choice. Fitz may take a discount ($12M ish) which the Jets should be thrilled with. Why would Fitz end up taking any discount if the Jets had zero leverage? Wouldn't that be evidence the Jets had plenty of leverage? I'd think no leverage would mean Fitz had a 3 year/$50M contract in his pocket. The reality is both side have equal leverage. In any sort of negotiation, the more unequal the leverage, the quicker the other side caves. In this case, it's very even so neither side is giving in. Yes Fitz has leverage because plan B for the Jets is not appealing. That's pretty clear. However, the Jets have leverage two ways. First, they are not competing with anyone for his services, thus they have the luxury of waiting him out. Second and more importantly, because there are no other starting QB jobs available, Fitz only wants to play for the Jets. Threats of retirement or signing as a backup out of spite are negotiating ploys. Fitz is desperate to lead a team to the playoffs as a starting QB. So in summary, the Jets DO have a choice, just not a good one. Fitz doesn't, unless he's prepared to walk away from his career goals (which he would have done by now if he really didn't care). Unlike the team's, his decision is personal, not corporate which IMO make it much tougher on him to win the stare down contest. As a Bills fan, I wish they'd pay him $20M, but I think the $12M number is about where it will end up. Edited June 3, 2016 by KD in CA
eball Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 As much as I like Fitz the guy, I can't help but see this playing out as him eventually signing with the Jets for around 12M, and then flaming out in epic fashion.
CommonCents Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 As much as I like Fitz the guy, I can't help but see this playing out as him eventually signing with the Jets for around 12M, and then flaming out in epic fashion. I don't think he will have as good of a year as last year but he has a handful of veterans at skill positions he will still put up numbers....until it matters.
Ohiostyle Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 As much as I like Fitz the guy, I can't help but see this playing out as him eventually signing with the Jets for around 12M, and then flaming out in epic fashion. This about sums it up. But Fitz being as smart as he is (he went to Harvard), knows this, and is bargaining every cent he can.
JohnC Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 Periodically happens to start? You can't make convincing arguments when you toss out laughers like this (and the Fitz is "garbage" stuff). . In Cincy, he played in 23 games and started 20 in his last two seasons. In Buffalo, he had seasons of 8, 13, 16 and 16 starts (there are 16 games in a season...). In Tenn, he had 9 starts and in Houston, 12. He started all 16 in NYJ. Anyway...It's June and they haven't moved on from Fitz, despite the ease at which you say they can do this. Why? You still are unable to explain. I haven't said Fitz in an "invaluable gem", or even insinuated as much (you are just flailing now)--I have repeatedly said what others here have also said--which is the obvious point that he is their best chance to pick up where they left off and be a playoff contender until they draft a QB decent enough to replace the 10 game winning franchise record setting QB on the roster now. The Jets are playing hardball because the screwed up their cap situation (look at what they have to pay Revis alone this year). If they had 10-20 mil in cap space, they would be much kinder to their starting QB and this would have been wrapped up months ago. The Jets are dealing with the stringent cap situation that they are in. Fitz is certainly getting caught up in the Jets' financial squeeze. That's a reality that they are dealing with. That's often a reality in the NFL of today. What you and others have frantically said matters little. Watch what the Jets are doing. That's what is telling. That certainly is more relevant than your detailed analysis. If Fitz was other than a mediocre qb the Jets would get a deal done, even if they would have to make drastic roster cuts. Apparently they don't believe that the qb you fawn over is worth doing what is necessary to keep in the fold. I will say it again and I'm not saying it to be sarcastic: Fitz is an adequate backup qb who happens to start. Up to this point no team has an interest in him as a starter or even as a backup. You shouldn't be so bothered by what the Jets backup plan is. They are not fretting over to the extent you and others are. Let me remind you that Buddy Nix told Fitz that if he wanted to stay with the Bills he had to take a cut. He said no and was subsequently let go. He moved on and ending up signing for far less than what he would have received with Buffalo. The bottom line is that the so called paltry offer he is receiving from the Jets is more than what he would get if he signed with another team, assuming that there is an interest in him. And so far there isn't. The bottom line is that you and others keep forcefully insisting that the Jets can't do what they are doing. I don't take delight in bursting your imaginary balloon: They are currently doing what you say they can't do.
Beef Jerky Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 As much as I like Fitz the guy, I can't help but see this playing out as him eventually signing with the Jets for around 12M, and then flaming out in epic fashion. That is why it doesn't matter if they sign him or not. I just want the Jets to waste as much money as possible.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 Why would Fitz end up taking any discount if the Jets had zero leverage? Wouldn't that be evidence the Jets had plenty of leverage? I'd think no leverage would mean Fitz had a 3 year/$50M contract in his pocket. The reality is both side have equal leverage. In any sort of negotiation, the more unequal the leverage, the quicker the other side caves. In this case, it's very even so neither side is giving in. Yes Fitz has leverage because plan B for the Jets is not appealing. That's pretty clear. However, the Jets have leverage two ways. First, they are not competing with anyone for his services, thus they have the luxury of waiting him out. Second and more importantly, because there are no other starting QB jobs available, Fitz only wants to play for the Jets. Threats of retirement or signing as a backup out of spite are negotiating ploys. Fitz is desperate to lead a team to the playoffs as a starting QB. So in summary, the Jets DO have a choice, just not a good one. Fitz doesn't, unless he's prepared to walk away from his career goals (which he would have done by now if he really didn't care). Unlike the team's, his decision is personal, not corporate which IMO make it much tougher on him to win the stare down contest. As a Bills fan, I wish they'd pay him $20M, but I think the $12M number is about where it will end up. I guess for me I don't think that the leverage is equal. A borderline playoff team needs its QB more than the 33 year old QB with a Harvard education and $40M needs them. Sure he would love to have more money but if they don't come to an agreement who will be in a better place at Christmas? The Jets will be a 5 win team and Fitz will still have $40M and a Harvard degree. If the Jets had a viable alternative I may agree that they have some leverage. Unless they are able to pull off some crazy trade they aren't kidding anyone. As an aside, if I were the Jets I'd try to pry Chase Daniel from the Eagles. He'd be the perfect stop gap QB IMO.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 The Jets are dealing with the stringent cap situation that they are in. Fitz is certainly getting caught up in the Jets' financial squeeze. That's a reality that they are dealing with. That's often a reality in the NFL of today. What you and others have frantically said matters little. Watch what the Jets are doing. That's what is telling. That certainly is more relevant than your detailed analysis. If Fitz was other than a mediocre qb the Jets would get a deal done, even if they would have to make drastic roster cuts. Apparently they don't believe that the qb you fawn over is worth doing what is necessary to keep in the fold. I will say it again and I'm not saying it to be sarcastic: Fitz is an adequate backup qb who happens to start. Up to this point no team has an interest in him as a starter or even as a backup. You shouldn't be so bothered by what the Jets backup plan is. They are not fretting over to the extent you and others are. Let me remind you that Buddy Nix told Fitz that if he wanted to stay with the Bills he had to take a cut. He said no and was subsequently let go. He moved on and ending up signing for far less than what he would have received with Buffalo. The bottom line is that the so called paltry offer he is receiving from the Jets is more than what he would get if he signed with another team, assuming that there is an interest in him. And so far there isn't. The bottom line is that you and others keep forcefully insisting that the Jets can't do what they are doing. I don't take delight in bursting your imaginary balloon: They are currently doing what you say they can't do. The Jets are about $22M under the 2017 cap and have about another $20-$30M that they very well want to or may have to shed because they have a lot of older players. So money is there.....the talent is about as good as it's going to be for a few seasons because they are aging so much re-inforcement will be required soon. A commitment to winning now is NOT there. We've been down that road......ours was an owner who "wants" to win......on his terms...... but isn't committed to winning. They are in a position very much like the Bills were after Mularkey's first season.........both on the field and in the locker room. You act like the Jets are being smart about it.........well the Bengals, Bills, Titans and Texans thought so too.........how did their QB situations play out the first year post-Fitz? I hope the Jets are as smart as the Bills were.........the Bills gulped down dead money to dump him and then struggled with 3 different starting QB's and then had to go to Orton the next year. If Geno or Petty or Sackenburg pan out it will have been a worthwhile risk.......otherwise they probably find themselves losing with an aging roster.
KD in CA Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 I guess for me I don't think that the leverage is equal. A borderline playoff team needs its QB more than the 33 year old QB with a Harvard education and $40M needs them. Sure he would love to have more money but if they don't come to an agreement who will be in a better place at Christmas? The Jets will be a 5 win team and Fitz will still have $40M and a Harvard degree. If the Jets had a viable alternative I may agree that they have some leverage. Unless they are able to pull off some crazy trade they aren't kidding anyone. As an aside, if I were the Jets I'd try to pry Chase Daniel from the Eagles. He'd be the perfect stop gap QB IMO. Absolutely the opposite, because Fitz won't have what he wants -- the recognition that he was ever anything more than a low-end, journeymen QB. Who will be in a better spot at Christmas? Not the guy who just watched his lifelong dream slip away and has the rest of his life to stew over it. $40M and a Harvard degree isn't going to remove that sting quickly. Meanwhile, if the Jets slip to 6-10 with Geno this season......so what? Why do you think that be the end of days? It's not like this team was a step away from a Super Bowl last season. Will the Jets not still be a top 5 team in attendance? Will Woodie Johnson not still be a hundred times richer than Fitz? Will it matter that a 47 year championship drought goes to 48 years? Really -- what do the Jets lose by starting Geno and missing the the playoffs in 2016? And it's not like missing the playoffs isn't the most likely outcome anyway, even with Fitz! He couldn't deliver last year so why the assumption he'll do better than his career best season this year? The tail isn't wagging the dog here. As I've said all along, the Jets want him back but aren't going to overpay for a guy who has no other options.
3rdand12 Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 Maybe Elway played his hand well by not overpaying for a QB, but I think he made a mistake in not having a better option for this year. If he knew he was going to stick to his guns with Osweiler and considered Peyton gone (see the pay cut). Why didn't he draft their replacement last year? I agree Elway's approach is interesting, but I'm not sure its going to be successful. Interesting point. Who does Elway have a QB right now? This could be construed as incompetence and or a false sense of confidence in his defense and run game.
YoloinOhio Posted June 3, 2016 Author Posted June 3, 2016 Interesting point. Who does Elway have a QB right now? This could be construed as incompetence and or a false sense of confidence in his defense and run game. Sanchez, Paxton lynch, Trevor Simeon.
3rdand12 Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 I guess for me I don't think that the leverage is equal. A borderline playoff team needs its QB more than the 33 year old QB with a Harvard education and $40M needs them. Sure he would love to have more money but if they don't come to an agreement who will be in a better place at Christmas? The Jets will be a 5 win team and Fitz will still have $40M and a Harvard degree. If the Jets had a viable alternative I may agree that they have some leverage. Unless they are able to pull off some crazy trade they aren't kidding anyone. As an aside, if I were the Jets I'd try to pry Chase Daniel from the Eagles. He'd be the perfect stop gap QB IMO. This is another good call. Foles or Daniel. Jets are for sure in "bridge to the future " mindset based upon what they are offering Ryan as a contract Sanchez, Paxton lynch, Trevor Simeon. I knew the answer ; )
YoloinOhio Posted June 3, 2016 Author Posted June 3, 2016 This is another good call. Foles or Daniel. Jets are for sure in "bridge to the future " mindset based upon what they are offering Ryan as a contract I knew the answer ; ) i think it's hilarious the Broncos are talking up Trevor Simeon. gtfo
JohnC Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 The Jets are about $22M under the 2017 cap and have about another $20-$30M that they very well want to or may have to shed because they have a lot of older players. So money is there.....the talent is about as good as it's going to be for a few seasons because they are aging so much re-inforcement will be required soon. A commitment to winning now is NOT there. We've been down that road......ours was an owner who "wants" to win......on his terms...... but isn't committed to winning. They are in a position very much like the Bills were after Mularkey's first season.........both on the field and in the locker room. You act like the Jets are being smart about it.........well the Bengals, Bills, Titans and Texans thought so too.........how did their QB situations play out the first year post-Fitz? I hope the Jets are as smart as the Bills were.........the Bills gulped down dead money to dump him and then struggled with 3 different starting QB's and then had to go to Orton the next year. If Geno or Petty or Sackenburg pan out it will have been a worthwhile risk.......otherwise they probably find themselves losing with an aging roster. The Jets are making their own calculations regarding Fitz. There is no doubt that they have serious cap issues that impact the contract that they are willing to offer Fitz. The mistake that you and others are making on this issue is that you are acting as if Fitz is a key player as to whether the Jets succeed or fail. Apparently that isn't the view that the Jets are taking. With their paltry contract offer they are demonstrating to everyone how they value Fitz. In their eyes he is a mediocre bridge qb whose primary utility is to buy time until they can get a legitimate franchise qb. You bring up a good point as to where the Jets stand as a competitive team. They are an older team with a lot of veteran players who are costly and on the decline. That suggests to me that they understand that there is no short term gimmick fix. If that is the case then the front office realizes that a serious rebuild is inevitable and soon to begin. Last year the Jets were 10-6 and close to qualifying for a wildcard spot. But were they as good as their record might indicate? If you lost to the Bills and a Rex coached team twice in the same season you are not as good as the record might indicate. The fundamental difference I have with the majority of posters who are challenging my view on this issue is that I consider Fitz to be an adequate backup qb who isn't a legitimate starter in this league. For me his good stats last year were an aberration and don't reflect the caliber of qb he actually is. By the way the Jets are handling this Fitz issue they have the same viewpoint.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) I guess that we all aren't going to agree on this. With Fitz I would set the Jets over/under at 8 wins. With Geno, Petty or Sackenberg I'd set it at 5.5. The Jets are desperate at the moment. In terms of Daniel, he's a guy that learned under Brees. He is smart and fairy gifted. He's never been given a chance but people keep paying him a bunch (including his former OC). He could do a similar job to Fitz in Gailey's offense IMO. Foles stinks though. Edited June 4, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 If The Jets plan on starting him, he should be paid as such. methinks both parties are wrong in this matter. poor foresight perhaps. also think of what message the FO is sending the players. Colts were never the same after tanking. they just have a great QB who is injured I guess that we all aren't going to agree on this. With Fitz I would set the Jets over/under at 8 wins. With Geno, Petty or Sackenberg I'd set it at 5.5. The Jets are desperate at the moment.In terms of Daniel, he's a guy that learned under Brees. He is smart and fairy gifted. He's never been given a chance but people keep paying him a bunch (including his former OC). He could do a similar job to Fitz in Gailey's offense IMO. Foles stinks though. I wondered what opinion were on Foles. Thanks Kirby. Is Geno Smith really the fall back option ?
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