boyst Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 That's an interesting suggestion. Cleveland has $1M in guaranteed salary and $1.3M in pro-rated signing bonus as "dead money" so they only get about half that $5M back if they cut McCown. And with RGIII's injury history, I would think they would not want to rely on Kessler should he go down. I see them wanting RGIII to compete with McCown so that one way or another they have something approaching a real NFL QB. Still, if they could acquire McCown, you're right that he's probably in the same tier as Fitz for talent and experience. So that's one, with an asterisk because at present he's under contract and would require a trade (but a trade for his current salary would slot nicely into the Jets meagre QB budget). Reportedly there was interest/conversations but they balked at Fitzy's asking price. What is going on here is indeed a good question. Jameis and Bortles aren't likely going anywhere, but possibly Bartles and Jaymes are involved. If NC cow farmers drink that stuff. Winston sophomore struggles.Bortles is up and down. Injuries? Fitz could supplant them
Maury Ballstein Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Yea bench the #1 draft picks for the 43-61 guy with a baby arm and the fitzpicksix master Come on jb. You know better. Why are you trolling us so hard this offseason
3rdand12 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 The Fitz hatred runs deep at TBD.... Hate is a strong word I'd bet a lot of money Fitz is playing for the Jets next season. They will agree on something. It just seems logical for it to end that way. Winston sophomore struggles. Bortles is up and down. Injuries? Fitz could supplant them at what cost? This hard line that Fitz is demanding in pay is what is annoying to me and surely GMs who might have considered him
JohnC Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 The Jets have demonstrated their assessment of the caliber of qb Fitz is with their paltry offer. Fitz had a good season last year. But that performance (at least to the Jets front office) doesn't reflect his career body of work and what they think of his prospects in the upcoming season. I have clearly stated that I consider Fitz to be a mediocre qb who at best is a good backup as a veteran presence. After watching him over his extended career I'm confident that my evaluation of him is fair and reasonable. My answer is simply yes. The GM would be willing to let Fitz take a hike if he wants to do so and not be bothered by it. If you watched Fitz's performance in his last game with the Bills with the playoffs on the line you would have a better understanding as to why their organization is taking the stance that they are so far firmly adhering to. Fitz is Fitz. That should be enough of an explanation for most people. Exactly. No one is going to overpay for average. Average at best is what you're going to get out of Fitz. In fact it's quite possible the Jets don't believe he's capable of even having the same amount of success this season as he did last. Personally I think if Fitz does play for this Jets this season I would be surprised if he were able to win ten games again. In many ways I believe that he played beyond expectations for last season. He had the type of season that I don't see him repeating. I find it hard to believe that at his age he developed into a better QB. Last season Fitz limited his turnovers, and played smarter football than we usually see him play. Of course it all fell apart in that final game where the real Fitz appeared. In many ways that was his "Bledsoe" game. The type of win and you're in epic fail that causes a team to question if they should go in another direction at the QB position. Fitz is not an average starter, and never has been. At best he is a functional starting qb. I do consider him an average backup qb. A role that fits him very well. Would the Jets prefer that he return to the team? In their price range, yes. Will they up their offer? They will if Fitz becomes more realistic with what he wants to get. Outside of the Jets I don't know of any team interested in him. Fitz was an economics major at Harvard. He knows as well as anyone that the market will ultimately determine his value. So far the market is silent. That is a loud testament to his value.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Fitz is not an average starter, and never has been. At best he is a functional starting qb. I do consider him an average backup qb. A role that fits him very well. Would the Jets prefer that he return to the team? In their price range, yes. Will they up their offer? They will if Fitz becomes more realistic with what he wants to get. Outside of the Jets I don't know of any team interested in him. Fitz was an economics major at Harvard. He knows as well as anyone that the market will ultimately determine his value. So far the market is silent. That is a loud testament to his value. That's why I said "average at best". I do believe that during the 2015 season Fitz was an average QB. I really thought it was his best season, and because of that I find it highly unlikely he'll repeat it.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 (edited) Does it appear that the Jets are panicking over their contract stance with Fitz that might lead him to leaving? It doesn't to me. Whatever option they have to take, Smith or whatever pedestrian qb they can find, they are willing to take that route. What does that say how they value Fitz? It's certainly not a ringing endorsement. The Bills have recently been in this qb quandary situation. They signed a virtually retired and out of shape Orton just prior to the start of the season. Was it a good option? Not necessarily but it was the best option available. It wasn't too long ago that Buddy made it clear that Fitz was over-paid and needed to take a pay cut if he were to stay. He left. My point is that organizations constantly make talent value judgments expressed through contract offers on players. Especially after watching Fitz's game with the Bills in Buffalo their GM's position seems very reasonable and understandable to me. You keep shifting the frame. No one I see here is arguing that the Jets are panicking, or that they might, for various reasons, have to take the "best option available" even if it kind of, well, sucks. Up until this point, you've been saying that Fitz is "garbage" and the Jets can "easily" and "cheaply" sign someone else who is just as good. My point is that they can't - QB even of Fitz proven level just aren't that readily available - not that they're "panicking". The Jets are in a very salary-cap limited situation. They can't even afford the offer they extended to Fitz without clearing some space. Whether it is reasonable and understandable for them to not clear more space, depends upon how they want to perform next season. Maybe they plan to tank. I hope players and agents are able to see that more factors than "talent value judgements" are in play or the Bills risk having Taylor mightily insulted at his current salary. Arguably, the Bills decision not to extend a renegotiation offer Fitz was willing to accept, cost them more money, wins, and possibly EJ's development. Someone called it - "Fitz is a QB that multiple teams have moved on from and done a wholly inadequate job of replacing" Edited May 6, 2016 by Hopeful
ALF Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 "But general manager Mike Maccagnan went on The Michael Kay Show on Monday and stated that he's "excited" to see what Geno can do if he's the starter this season." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25575786/jets-gm-excited-to-see-what-geno-can-do-if-hes-the-starting-qb
BarleyNY Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 "But general manager Mike Maccagnan went on The Michael Kay Show on Monday and stated that he's "excited" to see what Geno can do if he's the starter this season." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25575786/jets-gm-excited-to-see-what-geno-can-do-if-hes-the-starting-qb How many times did he have to practice that before he stopped accidentally saying "anxious" instead of "excited"?
JohnC Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 (edited) You keep shifting the frame. No one I see here is arguing that the Jets are panicking, or that they might, for various reasons, have to take the "best option available" even if it kind of, well, sucks. Up until this point, you've been saying that Fitz is "garbage" and the Jets can "easily" and "cheaply" sign someone else who is just as good. My point is that they can't - QB even of Fitz proven level just aren't that readily available - not that they're "panicking". The Jets are in a very salary-cap limited situation. They can't even afford the offer they extended to Fitz without clearing some space. Whether it is reasonable and understandable for them to not clear more space, depends upon how they want to perform next season. Maybe they plan to tank. I hope players and agents are able to see that more factors than "talent value judgements" are in play or the Bills risk having Taylor mightily insulted at his current salary. Arguably, the Bills decision not to extend a renegotiation offer Fitz was willing to accept, cost them more money, wins, and possibly EJ's development. Someone called it - "Fitz is a QB that multiple teams have moved on from and done a wholly inadequate job of replacing" I'm not shifting the argument on the Fitz and Jet issue. It is simple: What is his talent level and what is his worth to the team. Of course the team's cap situation is a factor in this discussion but it isn't as central as most people think it is. If Fitz was a sterling talent the Jets would adjust other salaries and jettison players to secure his services. They are not foolish enough to do it for this smart but limited qb. With respect to the Bills making an error in losing Fitz because of contract reasons I disagree with that premise and evaluation. The Bills made a decision based on the facts on hand at the time. That's all you can do. A hindsight reassessment is a futile exercise of the non-real world of "what ifs". Buddy Nix was far from being one of the better GMs in the game. But he made the right decision in not over-paying for a mediocre talent. Fitz is Fitz. You don't go anywhere meaningful with Fitz driving the bus. The Jets are not an outrageously stupid organization. They were smart enough to get rid of their former insufferably loud and braggadocio HC and quickly reap dividends from that staffing subtraction. The Fitz issue is a standard issue that all teams contend with: the relationship between talent and pay scale. They have made a judgment that seems very reasonable to me. Will they eventually sign Ftiz to a contract? They will if Fitz becomes more realistic with his contract expectations. If not, they will move on and not be troubled by his departure. The attached link is from the Buffalo News and by Mark Gaughn http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/mark-gaughan/power-take-jets-have-fitz-in-tough-spot-so-he-should-cut-bait-and-sign-20160505 Edited May 6, 2016 by JohnC
gumby Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 "But general manager Mike Maccagnan went on The Michael Kay Show on Monday and stated that he's "excited" to see what Geno can do if he's the starter this season." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25575786/jets-gm-excited-to-see-what-geno-can-do-if-hes-the-starting-qb Why wouldn't he be. Geno Smith won the job last year and if it wasn't for IK Enemkpali sucker punching him Fitz wouldn't of even been on the field let alone overvaluing himself today.
YoloinOhio Posted May 9, 2016 Author Posted May 9, 2016 @sigmundbloom #49ers #eagles & Ryan Fitzpatrick all lost millions overestimating the marketability of a marginal starting NFL QB. No lure of the unknown
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 The Jets are not an outrageously stupid organization.
JohnC Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 They were smart enough to get rid of a bloviating and obnoxious coach who had a losing record and they know what the value of an adequate backup qb is who happened to start for them.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 It's possibly his last shot- can't blame for trying to maximize his value. If it doesn't pan out, he'll easily sign somewhere as a back up for a few mil to pad the account on the way out. I imagine the realization that he'll never amount to "the guy" anyway must have hit home by now - and therefore I'd shift gears to sucking as much cash out of the NFL machine as possible while exercising self preservation and a clear exit strategy.
John from Riverside Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 I'm not shifting the argument on the Fitz and Jet issue. It is simple: What is his talent level and what is his worth to the team. Of course the team's cap situation is a factor in this discussion but it isn't as central as most people think it is. If Fitz was a sterling talent the Jets would adjust other salaries and jettison players to secure his services. They are not foolish enough to do it for this smart but limited qb. With respect to the Bills making an error in losing Fitz because of contract reasons I disagree with that premise and evaluation. The Bills made a decision based on the facts on hand at the time. That's all you can do. A hindsight reassessment is a futile exercise of the non-real world of "what ifs". Buddy Nix was far from being one of the better GMs in the game. But he made the right decision in not over-paying for a mediocre talent. Fitz is Fitz. You don't go anywhere meaningful with Fitz driving the bus. The Jets are not an outrageously stupid organization. They were smart enough to get rid of their former insufferably loud and braggadocio HC and quickly reap dividends from that staffing subtraction. The Fitz issue is a standard issue that all teams contend with: the relationship between talent and pay scale. They have made a judgment that seems very reasonable to me. Will they eventually sign Ftiz to a contract? They will if Fitz becomes more realistic with his contract expectations. If not, they will move on and not be troubled by his departure. The attached link is from the Buffalo News and by Mark Gaughn http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/mark-gaughan/power-take-jets-have-fitz-in-tough-spot-so-he-should-cut-bait-and-sign-20160505 Is this a bad time to point out that the insufferable braggaaociao HC and his team beat the jets this past year.....TWICE
JohnC Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Is this a bad time to point out that the insufferable braggaaociao HC and his team beat the jets this past year.....TWICE The Jets went from a 4 win Rex team to a 10 win team when coached by a more mature coach. The team that Rex went to underperformed, especially on the side of the ball that he specializes in. Even when adding Rex's record beating his former team it is not a record to brag about.
zonabb Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 The Jets went from a 4 win Rex team to a 10 win team when coached by a more mature coach. The team that Rex went to underperformed, especially on the side of the ball that he specializes in. Even when adding Rex's record beating his former team it is not a record to brag about. Ok, I think I understand coaching now. When you start Geno Smith 12 times and your record is 4-12, you suck as a coach. It's not the crappy QB who threw 3 picks against the Bills and looked like a Pop Warner QB, it was Rex who made those reads and throws. Got it. And it's not the massive upgrade, relatively speaking, to Fitzpatrick in 2015 that's even remotely responsible for the better record, it's the coach. Got that too. So why does Belichek ever lose a game?
eball Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Ok, I think I understand coaching now. When you start Geno Smith 12 times and your record is 4-12, you suck as a coach. It's not the crappy QB who threw 3 picks against the Bills and looked like a Pop Warner QB, it was Rex who made those reads and throws. Got it. And it's not the massive upgrade, relatively speaking, to Fitzpatrick in 2015 that's even remotely responsible for the better record, it's the coach. Got that too. So why does Belichek ever lose a game? I like JohnC, but you're not going to get anywhere with him regarding Rex unless the Bills become world-beaters this season. He hates the guy with a passion.
Nanker Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 They were smart enough to get rid of a bloviating and obnoxious coach who had a losing record and they know what the value of an adequate backup qb is who happened to start for them. Hey, I hate Pete Carrol as much as you do... Bill Parcells too.
Doc Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 The Jets went from a 4 win Rex team to a 10 win team when coached by a more mature coach. The team that Rex went to underperformed, especially on the side of the ball that he specializes in. Even when adding Rex's record beating his former team it is not a record to brag about. The off-season additions helped more than coaching.
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