Fitz calls his shot -Update Signed w/Jets

[3rdand12]

No idea what the Jets or anyone else have left but I'm still guessing the Jets and Fitz meet in the middle on some 2 year deal. About 21-22 million total and half of it guaranteed.

I thought the Wilkerson deal was a burden for the Jets to deal with. Maybe i am getting turned around here though.

Edited May 3, 2016 by 3rdand12

[CommonCents]

I thought the Wilkerson deal was a burden for the Jets to deal with. Maybe i am getting turned around here though.

I'm not sure of all the specifics I know Wilkerson was rumored to be on the block, they signed Richardson's 5th year option yesterday. They also draft Williams out of USC last year so they have some flexibility with personnel. Once Bowles looks at Geno under center again he will part ways with someone.

[vincec]

 

What is going on here ? Famous Jameis and Bortles getting the hook for fitzpicksix? Terrific.

Only in Boyst's Bizzarro universe.

[3rdand12]

I'm not sure of all the specifics I know Wilkerson was rumored to be on the block, they signed Richardson's 5th year option yesterday. They also draft Williams out of USC last year so they have some flexibility with personnel. Once Bowles looks at Geno under center again he will part ways with someone.

Yep. Saw the Richardson option.

I just wonder if Jets have enough in the till at this point for Fitz. Cannot believe they want him for more than 3 year contract, if that?

[JohnC]

 

Ahhhh! True indeed. "Can't touch this...":

 

 

 

Look, as I originally said, what QB has any chance to get them to 10 wins on that team other than Fitz? Pretty much none of those you finally dug up to answer a simple question.

 

If your goal as GM is to just lose a bunch of games until one of those guys you have blown draft picks on becomes your franchise QB, then you have a lot of explaining to do to your season ticket holders/PSL owners.

The Jets have taken a tough contract stance with Fitz. You disagree with it. So far they have not moved off of their marker. You make the point that most of the qbs I listed couldn't outperform what Fitz accomplished with them. That doesn't mean that they can't come up with an adequate option to Fitz that will also fall within their established contract parameters.

 

You may think that Geno Smith is a preposterous option at qb but they don't necessarily think that. Let's be realistic here. Fitz is not at the top of the food chain when ranking qbs in the league. He is a fading mediocre vagabond qb who is not going to get your team anywhere. His last game against Buffalo certainly left a stinking impression on the Jet brain trust that if they are going to get mediocre qb play then they should pay at a commensurate rate for that type of dismal play.

 

Where you and I fundamentally disagree on this issue is that we have different assessments on Fitz. During the last season he played above where he usually played at. The last critical game he resorted to being the Fitz that Bills' fans are very acquainted with. When you have garbage you pay for garbage. It's as simple as that. You are buying into your own created myth that doesn't exist. Fitz is Fitz no matter how much you try to inflate him. The Jets recognize what they got and they are appropriately responding to the reality they are facing.

 

 

Although the Jets might prefer keeping Fitz at a particular price it is evident that they don't fear losing his services. That indicates how much/little they value him.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Fitz is a 30 something QB. Typically teams only start 30 something QBs who are all pros, and champions. The type of guys that give you a chance to win it all. Fitz has proven time and time again that he fails in big spots. The final game against us helped prove that point. At this point on his career he is nothing more or less than a backup. Teams would rather fail to make the playoffs with a young QB who at least can provide the illusion that they may become a franchise QB. You don't give into to contract demands to simply trend water. You try to build a championship franchise.

[Mr. WEO]

The Jets have taken a tough contract stance with Fitz. You disagree with it. So far they have not moved off of their marker. You make the point that most of the qbs I listed couldn't outperform what Fitz accomplished with them. That doesn't mean that they can't come up with an adequate option to Fitz that will also fall within their established contract parameters.

 

You may think that Geno Smith is a preposterous option at qb but they don't necessarily think that. Let's be realistic here. Fitz is not at the top of the food chain when ranking qbs in the league. He is a fading mediocre vagabond qb who is not going to get your team anywhere. His last game against Buffalo certainly left a stinking impression on the Jet brain trust that if they are going to get mediocre qb play then they should pay at a commensurate rate for that type of dismal play.

 

Where you and I fundamentally disagree on this issue is that we have different assessments on Fitz. During the last season he played above where he usually played at. The last critical game he resorted to being the Fitz that Bills' fans are very acquainted with. When you have garbage you pay for garbage. It's as simple as that. You are buying into your own created myth that doesn't exist. Fitz is Fitz no matter how much you try to inflate him. The Jets recognize what they got and they are appropriately responding to the reality they are facing.

 

 

Although the Jets might prefer keeping Fitz at a particular price it is evident that they don't fear losing his services. That indicates how much/little they value him.

 

 

I highlighted that because of its ironic power.

 

I'll ask you again...if you are the Jets GM, are you really ready to see Fitz walk away for a few million a year---and to tell your fans that you are going into the season with Geno as the number one and Petty as his backup?

 

No, of course you are not. You insist on calling Fitz "garbage", so I know this is not a real argument that you are making. I have never inflated Fitz in this thread--I am simply pointing out something you are pretending not to know...that he is the only 10 game winner they will get on their roster this off-season. The Jets know that too, they are just being stupid over chump change for a few years. Claiming they are suddenly comfortable with Geno or, even more silly, that Hackenberg may be ready to go this year as starter makes them look really bad at bluffing.

 

There has been ample time to cut ties with Fitz and find his "equal".....why haven't they done so by now? Explain why this is so.

[Freddie's Dead]

The Fitz hatred runs deep at TBD....

[eball]

The Fitz hatred runs deep at TBD....

 

One person's hate is another's acceptance of cold hard facts.

[chris heff]

I don't hate Fitz, I think he is a football player. Just doesn't have all the tools.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Yep, plus it's Cleveland. You can pretty much count on them to take the wrong path. Maybe I'm reading the contract details wrong, but if they trade instead of cut McCown they are only on the hook for 1.3 instead of 2.3 dead money.

 

Good question, Gary, it depends upon the details of how the contract is written and what the other team pays him, I believe. For example, if the other team renegotiated his contract to give him a signing bonus this year and $100k in salary, I think Cleveland would owe him $900k because he is guaranteed $1M salary. But if the other team just picks up his contract with the trade, I believe you are correct.

 

Of course, then there's the question of what would the Jets have to give up in trade.

[ALF]

Wonder if Jets would trade Wilkerson for Bradford or Kaepernick . There salary cap could work out that way.

 

Jets need cap space to sign Fitz for any amount right now.

 

Fitz contract would have to be heavy on incentives if he would bet on himself.

Edited May 5, 2016 by ALF

[YoloinOhio]

Wonder if Jets would trade Wilkerson for Bradford or Kaepernick . There salary cap could work out that way.

 

Jets need cap space to sign Fitz for any amount right now.

 

Fitz contract would have to be heavy on incentives if he would bet on himself.

wilkerson for either of those QBs is a crime but desperation leads to crazy things

[Maury Ballstein]

The Fitz hatred runs deep at TBD....

43-61. .413 win percentage. Bum

I don't hate Fitz, I think he is a football player. Just doesn't have all the tools.

This

I'd bet a lot of money Fitz is playing for the Jets next season.

They will agree on something.

Agree he stinks

[eball]

Every time I see the Jets' GM sit there and say he is confident with Geno playing I have to chuckle...

[JohnC]

 

 

I highlighted that because of its ironic power.

 

I'll ask you again...if you are the Jets GM, are you really ready to see Fitz walk away for a few million a year---and to tell your fans that you are going into the season with Geno as the number one and Petty as his backup?

 

No, of course you are not. You insist on calling Fitz "garbage", so I know this is not a real argument that you are making. I have never inflated Fitz in this thread--I am simply pointing out something you are pretending not to know...that he is the only 10 game winner they will get on their roster this off-season. The Jets know that too, they are just being stupid over chump change for a few years. Claiming they are suddenly comfortable with Geno or, even more silly, that Hackenberg may be ready to go this year as starter makes them look really bad at bluffing.

 

There has been ample time to cut ties with Fitz and find his "equal".....why haven't they done so by nowir? Explain why this is so.

The Jets have demonstrated their assessment of the caliber of qb Fitz is with their paltry offer. Fitz had a good season last year. But that performance (at least to the Jets front office) doesn't reflect his career body of work and what they think of his prospects in the upcoming season.

 

I have clearly stated that I consider Fitz to be a mediocre qb who at best is a good backup as a veteran presence. After watching him over his extended career I'm confident that my evaluation of him is fair and reasonable.

 

 

 

If you are the Jets GM, are you really ready to see Fitz walk away for a few million a year---and to tell your fans that you are going into the season with Geno as the number one and Petty as his backup?

 

My answer is simply yes. The GM would be willing to let Fitz take a hike if he wants to do so and not be bothered by it. If you watched Fitz's performance in his last game with the Bills with the playoffs on the line you would have a better understanding as to why their organization is taking the stance that they are so far firmly adhering to. Fitz is Fitz. That should be enough of an explanation for most people.

Every time I see the Jets' GM sit there and say he is confident with Geno playing I have to chuckle...

When the Jets' GM watched Fitz in his game against the Bills for a playoff spot he had to be mortified. If Geno isn't an adequate replacement then the Jets will seek another option from the market if Fitz leaves. I'm sure the Jets would rather keep Fitz for a particular price (low) but if not they'll make do.

Edited May 5, 2016 by JohnC

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If need be the Jets could go with Geno Smith. Or if they want to go on the garbage market they can pursue at very cheap prices qbs such as: Mike Glennon, Matt Moore, Zack Mettenberg, Chad Henne, Shaun Hill, Matt McCloin, Brandon Weeden, Dan Orlovsky, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Colt McCoy, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer, Matt Hasseleck, Derek Anderson, Matt Schaub, Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones. Within this pile of mostly garbage there are plenty of candidates who are in the Fitz caliber of talent.

 

The Jets have set down the marker to Fitz. I'm sure the organization is willing to insignificantly up its offer. But as I have repeatedly said in my many posts on this topic they are not unafraid to move on from him if they can't get him at the price they have in mind. It is still very early in the offseason. If need be they will seek an in-house or outside the organization option to replace the qb that started for them last year. You may think their strategy is unwise but the organization apparently believes it makes sense for them.

 

I see now we get into your definition of "readily available" and "very cheap prices".

 

Exactly one of the QB on your list is a FA - Christian Ponder. Well, technically two, but Matt Hasselbeck is under contract now as an ESPN analyst.

 

To me, "readily available" means, available to be signed as a negotiation between the player and the team. Most of the players you name are currently under contract as backups (see below), meaning their teams would then be scrambling to replace them with an equivalent value (to that team) QB - one who knows their system or can pick it up with limited reps. Teams would need a substantial motivation for the trade -a good player that fits a hole they currently have, or a good draft pick. I think that precludes these guys from being "readily available" at "very cheap prices". They cost salary, plus a pick or player.

 

That's without delving into the question of whether or not, as QB, these guys are actually reasonably perceived AT THIS DATE as being no drop-off from Fitz. (For example, in their prime, Fitz wasn't fit to carry Matt Schaub or Matt Hasselbeck's jock - but that was Then, this is Now.) That would really be a difficult argument for you to support in most cases. Frankly, in many if not most of these cases, they'd be better off going with Geno Smith as "the devil they know" who might improve.

 

With this list, it's now clear that this is not an argument or a discussion - your point of view that Fitz is "garbage" who could be replaced by the Jets with a number of "readily available" QB at "very cheap prices" is essentially an article of religious faith to you, and not subject to change for any argument or proof to the contrary. You, like the Jets, really don't have a backup plan.

 

And they're the Jets. I'm OK with that!

 

JohnC's list:

Mike Glennon: under contract to the Bucs through 2016. Might go somewhere in 2017for a chance to start if the Bucs can't resign him - but that doesn't help this season.

Matt Moore: under contract to the Dolphins. Hasn't started a game in 5 years and has completed 5 of 11 passes in last 3 years. Mentor value.

Zack Mettenberg: under contract to the Titans. Threw 4 TD and 7 INT as part of an 0-4 record last year.

Chad Henne: under contract to the Jags, veteran backup mentor to Bortles. Just given $3M roster bonus; not going anywhere unless the trade offer is Big and Juicy. Mentor value.

Shaun Hill: under contract to the Vikings. Mentor value.

Matt McGloin: under contract to the Raiders.

Brandon Weedon: under contract to the Texans. Just given $0.94M roster bonus, not going anywhere unless the trade offer is Big and Juicy.

Dan Orlovsky: under contract to the Lions

Blaine Gabbert: under contract to the 49ers

Christian Ponder: currently a free agent. The only one on the list!

Colt McCoy: under contract to the Redskins

Ryan Mallet: under contract to the Ravens

Brian Hoyer: under contract to the Bears. Statistically comparable to Fitz and replaced him in Houston. Jets had their chance at him and passed.

Matt Hasselbeck: currently an ESPN analyst. Age 40.

Derek Anderson: under contract to the Panthers.

Matt Schaub: under contract to the Falcons

Bruce Gradkowski: just signed a 1 year contract with the Steelers.

Landry Jones: under contract to the Steelers, but in view of the above, might get cut.

[JohnC]

 

I see now we get into your definition of "readily available" and "very cheap prices".

 

Exactly one of the QB on your list is a FA - Christian Ponder. Well, technically two, but Matt Hasselbeck is under contract now as an ESPN analyst.

 

To me, "readily available" means, available to be signed as a negotiation between the player and the team. Most of the players you name are currently under contract as backups (see below), meaning their teams would then be scrambling to replace them with an equivalent value (to that team) QB - one who knows their system or can pick it up with limited reps. Teams would need a substantial motivation for the trade -a good player that fits a hole they currently have, or a good draft pick. I think that precludes these guys from being "readily available" at "very cheap prices". They cost salary, plus a pick or player.

 

That's without delving into the question of whether or not, as QB, these guys are actually reasonably perceived AT THIS DATE as being no drop-off from Fitz. (For example, in their prime, Fitz wasn't fit to carry Matt Schaub or Matt Hasselbeck's jock - but that was Then, this is Now.) That would really be a difficult argument for you to support in most cases. Frankly, in many if not most of these cases, they'd be better off going with Geno Smith as "the devil they know" who might improve.

 

With this list, it's now clear that this is not an argument or a discussion - your point of view that Fitz is "garbage" who could be replaced by the Jets with a number of "readily available" QB at "very cheap prices" is essentially an article of religious faith to you, and not subject to change for any argument or proof to the contrary. You, like the Jets, really don't have a backup plan.

 

And they're the Jets. I'm OK with that!

 

JohnC's list:

Mike Glennon: under contract to the Bucs through 2016. Might go somewhere in 2017for a chance to start if the Bucs can't resign him - but that doesn't help this season.

Matt Moore: under contract to the Dolphins. Hasn't started a game in 5 years and has completed 5 of 11 passes in last 3 years. Mentor value.

Zack Mettenberg: under contract to the Titans. Threw 4 TD and 7 INT as part of an 0-4 record last year.

Chad Henne: under contract to the Jags, veteran backup mentor to Bortles. Just given $3M roster bonus; not going anywhere unless the trade offer is Big and Juicy. Mentor value.

Shaun Hill: under contract to the Vikings. Mentor value.

Matt McGloin: under contract to the Raiders.

Brandon Weedon: under contract to the Texans. Just given $0.94M roster bonus, not going anywhere unless the trade offer is Big and Juicy.

Dan Orlovsky: under contract to the Lions

Blaine Gabbert: under contract to the 49ers

Christian Ponder: currently a free agent. The only one on the list!

Colt McCoy: under contract to the Redskins

Ryan Mallet: under contract to the Ravens

Brian Hoyer: under contract to the Bears. Statistically comparable to Fitz and replaced him in Houston. Jets had their chance at him and passed.

Matt Hasselbeck: currently an ESPN analyst. Age 40.

Derek Anderson: under contract to the Panthers.

Matt Schaub: under contract to the Falcons

Bruce Gradkowski: just signed a 1 year contract with the Steelers.

Landry Jones: under contract to the Steelers, but in view of the above, might get cut.

Does it appear that the Jets are panicking over their contract stance with Fitz that might lead him to leaving? It doesn't to me. Whatever option they have to take, Smith or whatever pedestrian qb they can find, they are willing to take that route. What does that say how they value Fitz? It's certainly not a ringing endorsement.

 

The Bills have recently been in this qb quandary situation. They signed a virtually retired and out of shape Orton just prior to the start of the season. Was it a good option? Not necessarily but it was the best option available. It wasn't too long ago that Buddy made it clear that Fitz was over-paid and needed to take a pay cut if he were to stay. He left.

 

My point is that organizations constantly make talent value judgments expressed through contract offers on players. Especially after watching Fitz's game with the Bills in Buffalo their GM's position seems very reasonable and understandable to me.

[BarleyNY]

Does it appear that the Jets are panicking over their contract stance with Fitz that might lead him to leaving? It doesn't to me. Whatever option they have to take, Smith or whatever pedestrian qb they can find, they are willing to take that route. What does that say how they value Fitz? It's certainly not a ringing endorsement.

 

The Bills have recently been in this qb quandary situation. They signed a virtually retired and out of shape Orton just prior to the start of the season. Was it a good option? Not necessarily but it was the best option available. It wasn't too long ago that Buddy made it clear that Fitz was over-paid and needed to take a pay cut if he were to stay. He left.

 

My point is that organizations constantly make talent value judgments expressed through contract offers on players. Especially after watching Fitz's game with the Bills in Buffalo their GM's position seems very reasonable and understandable to me.

 

The Jest certainly appear to have a value on Fitz. And Fitz certainly appears to have a price to play. Sometimes those two positions change as options become limited, time grows short or outside pressure increases. Sometimes they don't. If they don't, then Fitz isn't playing for the Jest this season. If they do, then he may. We will just have to wait and see.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

The Jets have demonstrated their assessment of the caliber of qb Fitz is with their paltry offer. Fitz had a good season last year. But that performance (at least to the Jets front office) doesn't reflect his career body of work and what they think of his prospects in the upcoming season.

 

I have clearly stated that I consider Fitz to be a mediocre qb who at best is a good backup as a veteran presence. After watching him over his extended career I'm confident that my evaluation of him is fair and reasonable.

 

 

 

 

My answer is simply yes. The GM would be willing to let Fitz take a hike if he wants to do so and not be bothered by it. If you watched Fitz's performance in his last game with the Bills with the playoffs on the line you would have a better understanding as to why their organization is taking the stance that they are so far firmly adhering to. Fitz is Fitz. That should be enough of an explanation for most people.

Exactly. No one is going to overpay for average. Average at best is what you're going to get out of Fitz. In fact it's quite possible the Jets don't believe he's capable of even having the same amount of success this season as he did last. Personally I think if Fitz does play for this Jets this season I would be surprised if he were able to win ten games again. In many ways I believe that he played beyond expectations for last season. He had the type of season that I don't see him repeating. I find it hard to believe that at his age he developed into a better QB. Last season Fitz limited his turnovers, and played smarter football than we usually see him play. Of course it all fell apart in that final game where the real Fitz appeared. In many ways that was his "Bledsoe" game. The type of win and you're in epic fail that causes a team to question if they should go in another direction at the QB position.

Edited May 5, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5