I hope everyone realizes...

[Blokestradamus]

The draft is a talent acquisition business. Quarterback is the most crucial piece of talent to acquire. If you like a guy, you take him.

 

Getting a QB (or any other position for that matter) when the talent isn't there is foolish. It only further condemns your issue.

[Beerball]

Why not? He's already pretty mad he's playing for peanuts. He could just demand a trade because he's so mad.

stop trolling

 

 

And is going bust on a 2nd round QB really worse than on a O-lineman, or a NG?

That was my point, thanks for making it better than I did.

[John from Riverside]

Why not? He's already pretty mad he's playing for peanuts. He could just demand a trade because he's so mad.

Yes because he clearly has said that when put on the spot......

Bills have to draft one QB. When, is the topic.

and they might well need to draft one next year.

I am on the wagon of we should draft a QB EVERY year......

 

When is the question to me......

 

When a team feels they HAVE a qb....that is the time to take a QB that needs to be developed.

[KOKBILLS]

That of all the QBs discussed in this draft we'll be lucky if one capable starter emerges. That's just the reality. Every year we talk like there are 4-5-6 viable options and most of these guys are selling cars within 2 years.

 

That said do you really want the Bills to pass on a player who can realistically contribute to pick what is essentially a lottery ticket? I don't.

I'm certainly not OK with Drafting a QB at #19 or #49...But I think it enters the conversation at #80...I would rather wait till #117, but QB's get pushed up...And If you can get your pick of 3rd tier guys (I'm assuming Goff, Wentz and Lynch are tier 1...Cook and Hackenberg tier 2) at #80...You might as well do it...Because the reality is the Bills have 2 QB's with only 2016 left on their deals...It's insurance...

 

I do think the Bills are in a position where they should take a QB...And I think that position is a nice one for a developmental type...Outside of preseason this Draft pick will very likely not see the field in 2016...That gives the kid a full year of development...No rushing them in...I like the idea...No question it's a long-shot...But at least you take out the possibility the kid gets thrown into the fire and is completely ruined by year 2...

[FireChan]

stop trolling

That was my point, thanks for making it better than I did.

I'm more poking fun, but I do find his stances incongruous. Who worries about losing a QB but also doesn't want to have a backup plan?

 

I'm done on that front, however.

 

 

Yes because he clearly has said that when put on the spot......

I am on the wagon of we should draft a QB EVERY year......

 

When is the question to me......

 

When a team feels they HAVE a qb....that is the time to take a QB that needs to be developed.

So is it too early or is it perfect?

 

Shouldn't you draft a QB both when you need one and when you maybe don't?

 

I know if I was an NFL GM, I'd be taking mid-round high ceiling backup QB's every 2 or so years. At worst, you have a guy with a cannon who can probably make something happen if he needs to play due to a lack of film. At best, they develop and become something. While you may miss out on a once every ten years guy like Kyle Williams, that's almost as much a shot in the dark.

Edited April 24, 2016 by FireChan

[mannc]

That of all the QBs discussed in this draft we'll be lucky if one capable starter emerges. That's just the reality. Every year we talk like there are 4-5-6 viable options and most of these guys are selling cars within 2 years.

 

That said do you really want the Bills to pass on a player who can realistically contribute to pick what is essentially a lottery ticket? I don't.

This is precisely the drafting philosophy that has led the Bills to draft 4 QBs in the past 20 years. As we have seen, it is a formula for disaster.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

That of all the QBs discussed in this draft we'll be lucky if one capable starter emerges. That's just the reality. Every year we talk like there are 4-5-6 viable options and most of these guys are selling cars within 2 years.

 

That said do you really want the Bills to pass on a player who can realistically contribute to pick what is essentially a lottery ticket? I don't.

 

Promo, I have two comments in response.

 

First, whether there is more than one capable starting QB in the draft varies widely from draft to draft.

2014: 3 current QB starters out of 7 QB drafted in the top 4 rounds. 1 is out of the league. An additional 2 QB of the 7 QB drafted in the late rounds have started, and appear likely to stay as backups.

2013: 0 current starters out of 7 QB drafted in the top 4 rounds. 5 QB out of the 7 drafted in the top 4 rounds appear likely to stay in the league as backups.

2012: 4 current starters out of 8 QB drafted in the top 4 rounds. The other 4 QB have all started, and most appear likely to stay in the league at least as backups, 2 possibly as starters.

2011: 3 current starters out of 7 QB drafted in the top 4 rounds. Of the others, 3 are retired or likely out of the league and one appears likely to stay in the league at least as a backup.

 

The point being, one can't look at every year's draft as a uniform enterprise. Some years have better QB talent than others. (A secondary point appears to be that facts don't back up your statement)

 

The comment can be derived from the above: overall, for ANY draft choice, the odds of success are about 50-50, a bit higher in the first round/1st few picks in the 2nd, a bit lower in the 2nd-4th round.

 

Since QB is the most important position on the team, if you don't have a QB that is a "sure bet", why doesn't it make sense to pull the trigger if there's a guy you like, since if you choose any other position, it is far from a sure bet that the guy will contribute (you do your due diligence, then you hope for the best)? You never hit the shot you don't take.

[purple haze]

Penn St's Christian Hackenberg looks like a case study in reverse on how coaching changes can ruin a young developing QB. The kid looked brilliant as a freshman under Bill O'Brian and when O'Brian left for the Texans Hackenberg took several steps backwards in his development. A new and different coaching staff, new offensive scheme, and after his freshman season the O-line, WR talent went downhill bigtime.

 

All this reminds me of how some inept coaches and surrounding players can hurt a young QB attempting to develop properly. Like Doug Marrone with no QB coach, a very bad O-line and OC. That said, EJ has been learning under a better OC and the Bills now have a much-improved line. So, in my view, it will be interesting to see if EJ has improved at all under Greg Roman as compared to what he didn't learn under Marrone / Hackett.

 

 

Anyway, I wouldn't be against the Bills drafting a QB at any point in this draft. I think the Bills were really thinking of moving up to the number two position to draft Wentz until the Eagles beat them to it. The Bills have had Connor Cook, Cardale Jones, and Dak Prescott all into Buffalo for a pre-draft look. Should Paxton Lynch be there at 19 I'd have to think the Bills will give him serious consideration. In all probablity it will be Jones in the 3rd round.

 

Hackenberg looked okay his freshman year. I don't know how this narrative started that he was brilliant, great, awesome, etc. He looked like a guy with potential to be great. He still completed less than 60% of his passes that season, just like he did under Franklin. And while, yeah, coaching counts, and I'm not a Franklin fan, it's not all on Franklin. Hackenberg has the ball in his hands every play. The bad line played a part, yes, but there were many instances Hackenberg had time to throw the rock and he pulled an EJ. He seemed listless and ineffectual to me the past couple seasons. He's a 4th round guy to me and that's based off of physical traits as opposed to great production. If the Bills grabbed him in the 3rd, I could live with it, but If any team takes him in the first two rounds they are playing with fire, unless they have multiple picks in those rounds.

[John from Riverside]

I'm more poking fun, but I do find his stances incongruous. Who worries about losing a QB but also doesn't want to have a backup plan?

 

I'm done on that front, however.

 

Who says I dont want to have a backup plan.....your problem Firechan is you read what you want to read...I have NEVER said I did not want a backup plan at QB.......if we are discussing taking a QB in the first round (at least I think you are....I dont presume as much as you do on this board)

 

- Every QB in this draft has warts...NONE of these guys are ready to start

- I believe we have a starting QB.....I dont want a QB locker room issue

- The last time we took a mid 1st round QB was EJ Manuel...that worked out so well

 

IF every QB in this draft is not ready to start....then why are we going to use a premium pick on a player like that when we are going be developing them anyway?

 

 

So is it too early or is it perfect?

 

Shouldn't you draft a QB both when you need one and when you maybe don't?

 

You draft a QB every year......but come on lets be realistic here. If Rex Ryan does not get this D turned around he is gone and he knows it....so in a draft where there is a lot of D talent he is going to draft a QB high when he has two veterans on the roster? I dont see it.

 

I know if I was an NFL GM, I'd be taking mid-round high ceiling backup QB's every 2 or so years. At worst, you have a guy with a cannon who can probably make something happen if he needs to play due to a lack of film. At best, they develop and become something. While you may miss out on a once every ten years guy like Kyle Williams, that's almost as much a shot in the dark.

 

I agree with this......we need to be consistantly taking mid round high ceiling QBs....I never said anything to the contrary of that.

Edited April 24, 2016 by John from Hemet

[Direhard Fan]

Lines win super bowls. Denver won and Manning was terrible. Draft lines and worry about the qb later. TT will be fine for years to come. "And you can take that to the bank."

[FireChan]

 

I'm more poking fun, but I do find his stances incongruous. Who worries about losing a QB but also doesn't want to have a backup plan?

 

I'm done on that front, however.

 

1. Who says I dont want to have a backup plan.....your problem Firechan is you read what you want to read...I have NEVER said I did not want a backup plan at QB.......if we are discussing taking a QB in the first round (at least I think you are....I dont presume as much as you do on this board)

 

- Every QB in this draft has warts...NONE of these guys are ready to start

- I believe we have a starting QB.....I dont want a QB locker room issue

- The last time we took a mid round QB was EJ Manuel...that worked out so well

 

IF every QB in this draft is not ready to start....then why are we going to use a premium pick on a player like that when we are going be developing them anyway?

 

 

So is it too early or is it perfect?

 

Shouldn't you draft a QB both when you need one and when you maybe don't?

 

2. You draft a QB every year......but come on lets be realistic here. If Rex Ryan does not get this D turned around he is gone and he knows it....so in a draft where there is a lot of D talent he is going to draft a QB high when he has two veterans on the roster? I dont see it.

 

I know if I was an NFL GM, I'd be taking mid-round high ceiling backup QB's every 2 or so years. At worst, you have a guy with a cannon who can probably make something happen if he needs to play due to a lack of film. At best, they develop and become something. While you may miss out on a once every ten years guy like Kyle Williams, that's almost as much a shot in the dark.

 

3. I agree with this......we need to be consistantly taking mid round high ceiling QBs....I never said anything to the contrary of that.

 

This is a nightmare to respond to.

 

To your first point, I was talking about Promo, not you. Presume, indeed. And mid round means 3, 4, 5, not middle of the first.

 

To your second point, if Rex Ryan is drafting on some sort of 1 year ultimatum, he should be fired today. Him drafting with only the short term in mind is unacceptable, period.

 

To you third point, cool. I was just asking you to clarify.

[Prickly Pete]

That of all the QBs discussed in this draft we'll be lucky if one capable starter emerges. That's just the reality. Every year we talk like there are 4-5-6 viable options and most of these guys are selling cars within 2 years.

 

That said do you really want the Bills to pass on a player who can realistically contribute to pick what is essentially a lottery ticket? I don't.

 

I hope you realize....

Edited April 24, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[Kirby Jackson]

I think that the Bills should (and will) take a QB. It will be interesting to see what type of QB it is. The 2 names that we hear the most are Cardale Jones and Kevin Hogan. To me those players represent a different objective. Hogan would seem like a smart, experienced guy that you can plug in for 3-4 games with an injury and not get killed. He's kind of like a McCown brother. He's probably going to have a long career.

 

Cardale is a guy that has the physical tools to be anything. He's raw and would need time to develop. He wouldn't be drafted with the plan to be the solid back-up type. He's a guy that will probably be a successful starter (in a couple years) or out of the league.

 

It really depends on what the Bills think of their situation. If the Bills believe Tyrod will be the answer they will probably lean toward a Hogan type. If they really wonder about him they may swing for the fences.

[Hatszel]

Penn St's Christian Hackenberg looks like a case study in reverse on how coaching changes can ruin a young developing QB. The kid looked brilliant as a freshman under Bill O'Brian and when O'Brian left for the Texans Hackenberg took several steps backwards in his development. A new and different coaching staff, new offensive scheme, and after his freshman season the O-line, WR talent went downhill bigtime.

 

All this reminds me of how some inept coaches and surrounding players can hurt a young QB attempting to develop properly. Like Doug Marrone with no QB coach, a very bad O-line and OC. That said, EJ has been learning under a better OC and the Bills now have a much-improved line. So, in my view, it will be interesting to see if EJ has improved at all under Greg Roman as compared to what he didn't learn under Marrone / Hackett.

 

 

Anyway, I wouldn't be against the Bills drafting a QB at any point in this draft. I think the Bills were really thinking of moving up to the number two position to draft Wentz until the Eagles beat them to it. The Bills have had Connor Cook, Cardale Jones, and Dak Prescott all into Buffalo for a pre-draft look. Should Paxton Lynch be there at 19 I'd have to think the Bills will give him serious consideration. In all probablity it will be Jones in the 3rd round.

I think Jones will be going to Cleveland in the 2nd or 3rd possibly. we will not have a shot at him in my opinion. My guess in brows go Elliot in the First if they can then Jones. Build with an Ohio team while taking the number one pick on QB next year.

[FireChan]

I think that the Bills should (and will) take a QB. It will be interesting to see what type of QB it is. The 2 names that we hear the most are Cardale Jones and Kevin Hogan. To me those players represent a different objective. Hogan would seem like a smart, experienced guy that you can plug in for 3-4 games with an injury and not get killed. He's kind of like a McCown brother. He's probably going to have a long career.

 

Cardale is a guy that has the physical tools to be anything. He's raw and would need time to develop. He wouldn't be drafted with the plan to be the solid back-up type. He's a guy that will probably be a successful starter (in a couple years) or out of the league.

 

It really depends on what the Bills think of their situation. If the Bills believe Tyrod will be the answer they will probably lean toward a Hogan type. If they really wonder about him they may swing for the fences.

How raw do you think he is? Comparison-wise.

Edited April 24, 2016 by FireChan

[John from Riverside]

I think that the Bills should (and will) take a QB. It will be interesting to see what type of QB it is. The 2 names that we hear the most are Cardale Jones and Kevin Hogan. To me those players represent a different objective. Hogan would seem like a smart, experienced guy that you can plug in for 3-4 games with an injury and not get killed. He's kind of like a McCown brother. He's probably going to have a long career.

 

Cardale is a guy that has the physical tools to be anything. He's raw and would need time to develop. He wouldn't be drafted with the plan to be the solid back-up type. He's a guy that will probably be a successful starter (in a couple years) or out of the league.

 

It really depends on what the Bills think of their situation. If the Bills believe Tyrod will be the answer they will probably lean toward a Hogan type. If they really wonder about him they may swing for the fences.

I would not rule out Prescott or Hackenburg in this draft......the bills have looked at both of them in the offseason

[thebandit27]

Lines win super bowls. Denver won and Manning was terrible. Draft lines and worry about the qb later. TT will be fine for years to come. "And you can take that to the bank."

Denver's OL was a patchwork unit with generally lousy play.

 

The previous year, NE won the Supwr Bowl with a patchwork unit playing generally lousy football.

 

The year before that, Seattle won the big game with one of the worst lines in football.

I would not rule out Prescott or Hackenburg in this draft......the bills have looked at both of them in the offseason

I would hate both of those picks

[yungmack]

At the moment it seems like Tyrod is set as starter & EJ is the backup so any QB taken later in the draft is slotted for 3rd string, with hopes he will somehow develop into a steal. Of all the non-"star" QBs likely to be around in, say, the 4th round, the one I hope is still available, and the one I hope the Bills choose, is Kevin Hogan. The two biggest knocks on him are arm strength and delivery. The latter can be corrected while the former is, IMO, overrated. On his plus side, he played a complicated pro-style offense at Stanford (in fact, he played Greg Roman's offense) against high-level competition and did so with success. He has size, toughness, intelligence and talent. Seems to me he would be very much worth a pick.

[John from Riverside]

Denver's OL was a patchwork unit with generally lousy play.

 

The previous year, NE won the Supwr Bowl with a patchwork unit playing generally lousy football.

 

The year before that, Seattle won the big game with one of the worst lines in football.

 

I would hate both of those picks

I am quite sure whatever QB is selected there is gonna be someone that hates the pick....but the fact remains that we sent reps to go look at both QBs....and Dac was brought in for a visit

[Fixxxer]

I wonder if there's a sign at OBD that says "Beware of the QB position"......