Doc Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 How many times will I have to explain to you that single year cap space isn't a great indicator of what a team can spend? The Saints are currently $3M over the cap for just their top 51 players. They'll need to find another ~$2.3M to sign their rookies. Please explain how they would have been able to fit a 5-year $75M deal with $50M guaranteed, without using outdated contracts that won't be happening again.
BarleyNY Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 Bloody hell. @RapSheet Josh Norman's 5-year, $75M deal with the #Redskins includes $50M in guarantees, source said. Wow. Gotta give the guy credit. He stuck to his guns and got PAID. This was his one and only chance at a huge payday and he got it. This one hurts us Yeah it does. Dan Snyder has been very restrained for a couple years now. He just couldn't control himself anymore. Ugh. Gilmore is a better all-around CB than Norman too. This sucks. What does "all around" even mean in this case? Norman is probably the top zone corner in the NFL right now. Gilmore isn't the top corner in any category. He's an excellent corner, but nobody who is unbiased is saying he's as good a corner as Norman.
H2o Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 Carolina couldn't trade Norman because he wasn't under contract as he didn't sign his tender, this is why they could rescind it. In my opinion this is a mistake on Norman's part. There's a limited market for him at this point so he's going to get much less money than if he played under the 14 million tag for a year and became a free agent next year. The guy seems like he doesn't care about winning, just cashing in. $14,000,000 isn't a bad haul to be on a SB contender. Now he'll get 35-40 mill gauranteed, but it will be losing in San Fran
CommonCents Posted April 23, 2016 Author Posted April 23, 2016 (edited) Gotta give the guy credit. He stuck to his guns and got PAID. This was his one and only chance at a huge payday and he got it. Yeah it does. Dan Snyder has been very restrained for a couple years now. He just couldn't control himself anymore. What does "all around" even mean in this case? Norman is probably the top zone corner in the NFL right now. Gilmore isn't the top corner in any category. He's an excellent corner, but nobody who is unbiased is saying he's as good a corner as Norman. Take him to the table and offer 25-28 guaranteed and 11.5 or so per. If he is insulted I'm seeing if I can get the Titans 33rd pick. Norman broke the bank, good for him he had a great season at the best possible time. The guy seems like he doesn't care about winning, just cashing in. $14,000,000 isn't a bad haul to be on a SB contender. Now he'll get 35-40 mill gauranteed, but it will be losing in San FranHe is in Washington and they have a fair amount of talent on both sides of the ball and their entire division is in flux. Washington man handled our behinds, why are you so down on them? Edited April 23, 2016 by Commonsense
thebandit27 Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 He'll get torched. No more threatening with bats pregame, no more body slamming or rabbit punching. Refs will be all over this matchup which favors the offensive player. He didn't threaten him with a bat, and poor little OBJ gave just as good as he got on the cheap shots
BarleyNY Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 Take him to the table and offer 25-28 guaranteed and 11.5 or so per. If he is insulted I'm seeing if I can get the Titans 33rd pick. Norman broke the bank, good for him he had a great season at the best possible time. Prior to Norman's deal Bandit estimated Gilmore's next contract to be for 5 years at $65.5M with $32.5M guaranteed. I still think that's reasonable for him if it gets done this offseason. No way does he sign a deal before the draft and there's no way the Bills would get the 33rd overall pick for him on his current one-year contract. They're just going to have to let this play itself out and try to get him at fair deal. That should happen, but if he's not reasonable there's always a limit and sometimes you've got to say no.
CommonCents Posted April 23, 2016 Author Posted April 23, 2016 Prior to Norman's deal Bandit estimated Gilmore's next contract to be for 5 years at $65.5M with $32.5M guaranteed. I still think that's reasonable for him if it gets done this offseason. No way does he sign a deal before the draft and there's no way the Bills would get the 33rd overall pick for him on his current one-year contract. They're just going to have to let this play itself out and try to get him at fair deal. That should happen, but if he's not reasonable there's always a limit and sometimes you've got to say no. Fair enough. I'm good with Bandits numbers, I remember him presenting those a month or so ago and they made a ton of sense. I'm not as high on Gilmore as a lot of folks and if he is demanding anything close to Norman/Revis I'm parting ways for max value. Your right the 33rd pick may be well beyond his value at this point. When you say no way he signs before the draft that is more on the team than Gilmore and his agent, correct?
BarleyNY Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 Fair enough. I'm good with Bandits numbers, I remember him presenting those a month or so ago and they made a ton of sense. I'm not as high on Gilmore as a lot of folks and if he is demanding anything close to Norman/Revis I'm parting ways for max value. Your right the 33rd pick may be well beyond his value at this point. When you say no way he signs before the draft that is more on the team than Gilmore and his agent, correct? Well, at this point the team probably doesn't have the time to devote to doing it as they are in full draft mode. Gilmore's agent is probably busy with his players in the draft as well. Plus he'd want to wait until closer to the start of the season, or at least training camp, so he'd have more leverage in negotiations. Also Whaley is on a time crunch with Glenn due to the negotiation window for tagged players so he's probably going to do that deal first anyway.
CommonCents Posted April 23, 2016 Author Posted April 23, 2016 Well, at this point the team probably doesn't have the time to devote to doing it as they are in full draft mode. Gilmore's agent is probably busy with his players in the draft as well. Plus he'd want to wait until closer to the start of the season, or at least training camp, so he'd have more leverage in negotiations. Also Whaley is on a time crunch with Glenn due to the negotiation window for tagged players so he's probably going to do that deal first anyway. I was just going under the impression that Glenn and Gilmore had tied up their cap hits and the FA rush is over. The team is in no rush and should see how the draft falls as it may impact their future plans in regards to both players.
Maury Ballstein Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 He'll get torched. No more threatening with bats pregame, no more body slamming or rabbit punching. Refs will be all over this matchup which favors the offensive player. OBJ is the biggest douche in the game. Hope Norman blows him up and I'd like to see Gilmore kick his butt again as well
GunnerBill Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 (edited) I think it does push the market up for Gilmore. I don't believe he will get Norman money because they hype around him isn't commensurate. However, $13m now looks a little cheap.... $13.5m - $14m a year is the range. This does raise a question about whether the Bills go that high. EDIT: Norman won't be a total FA bust but he will never justify that deal. Edited April 23, 2016 by GunnerBill
H2o Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 Take him to the table and offer 25-28 guaranteed and 11.5 or so per. If he is insulted I'm seeing if I can get the Titans 33rd pick. Norman broke the bank, good for him he had a great season at the best possible time. He is in Washington and they have a fair amount of talent on both sides of the ball and their entire division is in flux. Washington man handled our behinds, why are you so down on them? I thought he would end up in San Fran because they had the most money. It's a nice haul for Norman and he lands on a decent team.
ALF Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 At the very least Gilmore will be here next season , then a franchise tag available for Gilmore or Taylor. Counting on Glenn to sign long term or better start getting the draft right. Bills could go all in on 2 out of 3 if it comes to that. Next season will determine which 2 are worth the big money.
Beerball Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 this is what may happen with Gilmore. If Rex's defense is so pressure scheme and confusion dependant, why do you need $20m corners... i know i know they are on an island, etc. but they only have to cover for 2 or 3 seconds before the ball is forced out by the pressure... my sense is you pay average rate for corners and overpay the smarter players and the Jerry Hughes types who can run the Rex pressure scheme... right? Sorry, I'm a couple days late, but...wrong. Rex's scheme demands strong corner play. He didn't threaten him with a bat, and poor little OBJ gave just as good as he got on the cheap shots But...truth is the "league" will be all over this match-up going forward. There will be no more shenanigans to the level of the 2015 game.
NoSaint Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 The Saints are currently $3M over the cap for just their top 51 players. They'll need to find another ~$2.3M to sign their rookies. Please explain how they would have been able to fit a 5-year $75M deal with $50M guaranteed, without using outdated contracts that won't be happening again. teams can hugely minimize first year cap hit and a player getting 2/3 of his deal guaranteed could see money kicked into years 2-3 without fear of not seeing it too. Brees likely has terms of an extension worked out but unsigned, that would soften the cap situation. Suddenly you can give Norman upwards of 15m in year one with a cap hit as low as $3-4m You really don't understand the multiple examples and concepts I've discussed on this if you are still hung up on the idea that kaepernicks contract is outdated and will never happen again. I gave several examples at various positions with varying levels of guarantee in that discussion to demonstrate extension structures that have been given out early that would fit team and player needs potentially if they wanted to do it now. The cap is about rolling averages across several years- and single year numbers are only so important. If you prefer to be constantly surprised by teams moves instead of trying to understand the process beyond the most basic levels - that can be your thing I guess.
thebandit27 Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 Sorry, I'm a couple days late, but...wrong. Rex's scheme demands strong corner play. But...truth is the "league" will be all over this match-up going forward. There will be no more shenanigans to the level of the 2015 game. No doubt about that
Beerball Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 No doubt about that Still will make for some good talk leading up to the first couple games. The hype machines will be full go.
FireChan Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 teams can hugely minimize first year cap hit and a player getting 2/3 of his deal guaranteed could see money kicked into years 2-3 without fear of not seeing it too. Brees likely has terms of an extension worked out but unsigned, that would soften the cap situation. Suddenly you can give Norman upwards of 15m in year one with a cap hit as low as $3-4m You really don't understand the multiple examples and concepts I've discussed on this if you are still hung up on the idea that kaepernicks contract is outdated and will never happen again. I gave several examples at various positions with varying levels of guarantee in that discussion to demonstrate extension structures that have been given out early that would fit team and player needs potentially if they wanted to do it now. The cap is about rolling averages across several years- and single year numbers are only so important. If you prefer to be constantly surprised by teams moves instead of trying to understand the process beyond the most basic levels - that can be your thing I guess. I laughed out loud. Good post.
GunnerBill Posted April 23, 2016 Posted April 23, 2016 ..and the Saints model is basically, as I see it, to accept a few years of a painful rebuild post Brees. They keep kicking the can down the road to try and load up while they still feel they have a window.
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