3rdand12 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 It was really a tangent off the OP's question. Stopping sacks is more important than getting them, to me. But as far selecting at the top end of the draft, so much is dependent on the team's situation, but I think generally, a pass rusher is a better, more impact, single player option. This is another good point. To me, football is all about "err on the side of aggression." I do not think anyone anywhere would question the pass rushers value in the game, as an individual.
Prickly Pete Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 How did "stop a sack" work against Von Miller? How did "stop a sack" work against Von Miller? Yeah, that was the problem. I bet Carolina would say "stopping a sack is more important", no?
gr8billsfan Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 I strongly believe S. Henderson or another RT will step up. i believe the Left side is fine. Our Defense needs pressure from a DE/DT, without a doubt.
3rdand12 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 yes. it's been interesting and i believe a thread should be organic. but the truth of the matter is what is more important: stopping a sack or creating a sack? there is no way it can be said that creating a sack is more valuable than stopping a sack. the offense gets only so many opportunities and on most teams it is a major part of their scoring system. relying on defense to score touchdowns only happens when you play the panthers in the super bowl. It really is a complicated question to answer clearly. If no sacks occur how well does an offense fair? But then you start talking about pressures and coverage and on and on it can go
Prickly Pete Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) yes. it's been interesting and i believe a thread should be organic. but the truth of the matter is what is more important: stopping a sack or creating a sack? there is no way it can be said that creating a sack is more valuable than stopping a sack. the offense gets only so many opportunities and on most teams it is a major part of their scoring system. relying on defense to score touchdowns only happens when you play the panthers in the super bowl. That's why I broke off to talk about the impact of a single great player on either "stopping sacks" or "creating sacks". One great O-lineman isn't going to stop the whole defense from getting sacks, and can only occupy one defender. But one great rusher can get them, or at least occupy more opposing players. Edited April 21, 2016 by HoF Watkins
boyst Posted April 21, 2016 Author Posted April 21, 2016 That's why I broke off to talk about the impact of a single great player on either "stopping sacks" or "creating sacks". One great O-lineman isn't going to stop the whole defense from getting sacks, and can only occupy one defender. But one great rusher can get them, or at least occupy more opposing players. you can scheme to a defense. its a lot harder to scheme to an offense. good defenses can beat great offenses. good offenses can never beat a great defense. i'd rather improve the offense to defeat the defense, even though i firmly believe that defense wins championships. mostly because what i believe, understand and preach is that 75% of defense is scheme, coaching, and planning. It really is a complicated question to answer clearly. If no sacks occur how well does an offense fair? But then you start talking about pressures and coverage and on and on it can go pressures and coverage not withstanding in this argument. the top DE's get sacks without coverages, etc. see schoebel. a premier ol who doesn't give up a sack vs. a player who gets a sack? i'd rather the ol who doesn't give up a sack than a player who gets a sack. a good ol can occupy two defenders, regardless of the rest of the quality around him.
3rdand12 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 you can scheme to a defense. its a lot harder to scheme to an offense. good defenses can beat great offenses. good offenses can never beat a great defense. i'd rather improve the offense to defeat the defense, even though i firmly believe that defense wins championships. mostly because what i believe, understand and preach is that 75% of defense is scheme, coaching, and planning. pressures and coverage not withstanding in this argument. the top DE's get sacks without coverages, etc. see schoebel. a premier ol who doesn't give up a sack vs. a player who gets a sack? i'd rather the ol who doesn't give up a sack than a player who gets a sack. a good ol can occupy two defenders, regardless of the rest of the quality around him. Yes, the O line who can defend the pass rush! Just like pass rushers can move around linemen can pass off rushers to another lineman or RB/fb and defeat blitzes. it is not nearly a one on one match up. Hell yes. I want to protect that qb. as i said you can really dig into this
H2o Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Ask Roman about that and he will tell you the same So do not let them affect the QB !! Once again, DEFENSE wins championships my friend. See this past SB.
Prickly Pete Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) you can scheme to a defense. its a lot harder to scheme to an offense. good defenses can beat great offenses. good offenses can never beat a great defense. i'd rather improve the offense to defeat the defense, even though i firmly believe that defense wins championships. mostly because what i believe, understand and preach is that 75% of defense is scheme, coaching, and planning. pressures and coverage not withstanding in this argument. the top DE's get sacks without coverages, etc. see schoebel. a premier ol who doesn't give up a sack vs. a player who gets a sack? i'd rather the ol who doesn't give up a sack than a player who gets a sack. a good ol can occupy two defenders, regardless of the rest of the quality around him. Really? On a pass rush? I have seen a guy slide off one, and get a little bit on another player, but it doesn't happen often. I mean, I wanna see some footage of this, or it's nonsense. And while a great O-lineman can shut down a great defender (as I already noted), the defender can line up somewhere else. If a DC likes, he can just line up the weakest D-lineman on the future Hall of Famer O-lineman, and it's a waste of the great's talent ("on 3rd down, let's line up Sean McNanie on Munoz....hehehe") I know all the counters to this argument (yes, the offense can scheme around it, but still the individual rusher is having a bigger impact). Edited April 21, 2016 by HoF Watkins
3rdand12 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Once again, DEFENSE wins championships my friend. See this past SB. I watched it brother. Defense had to win it. Peyton could not
H2o Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 I watched it brother. Defense had to win it. Peyton could not Aaaaaaaaand this is true. Lol
3rdand12 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Aaaaaaaaand this is true. Lol But that is not taking anything away from Wade and that amazing defense ! They just tore it up !!!!
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Really? On a pass rush? I have seen a guy slide off one, and get a little bit on another player, but it doesn't happen often. I mean, I wanna see some footage of this, or it's nonsense. And while a great O-lineman can shut down a great defender (as I already noted), the defender can line up somewhere else. If a DC likes, he can just line up the weakest D-lineman on the future Hall of Famer O-lineman, and it's a waste of the great's talent ("on 3rd down, let's line up Sean McNanie on Munoz....hehehe") I know all the counters to this argument (yes, the offense can scheme around it, but still the individual rusher is having a bigger impact). A single protector yes but bookend tackles neutralize edge rushers.
boyst Posted April 21, 2016 Author Posted April 21, 2016 A single protector yes but bookend tackles neutralize edge rushers.yes Also when looking back from the microscope a top performing DE lasts 4-5 yrs Max. A top OT can go 10 yrs.
Dragonborn10 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 I look at it this way. An average OT can stop a sack most of the time and can be helped by the play call, the TE or RB, and lastly the QB. But it usually takes elite talent to create a sack. Yes scheme and confusion help but most of the time it comes down to talent and effort in a one on one situation.
Maddog69 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 I don't think it can be an either/or question. You need to do both to be successful.
Big Turk Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Really? On a pass rush? I have seen a guy slide off one, and get a little bit on another player, but it doesn't happen often. I mean, I wanna see some footage of this, or it's nonsense. And while a great O-lineman can shut down a great defender (as I already noted), the defender can line up somewhere else. If a DC likes, he can just line up the weakest D-lineman on the future Hall of Famer O-lineman, and it's a waste of the great's talent ("on 3rd down, let's line up Sean McNanie on Munoz....hehehe") I know all the counters to this argument (yes, the offense can scheme around it, but still the individual rusher is having a bigger impact). It all depends on the type of protection scheme they are using, the defensive alignment and the individual assignment on the play. Most people don't realize this but there is no such thing as just "calling a play" in football. The entire play changes based on the the alignment of the defense and the personnel on the field. So basically each "play" is really a set of 8-10 "sub plays" and the players have to use the right one based on the look of the defense, etc. Their assignment can change, who they block can change, what side of the formation they are on can change, etc... So when you hear a player "missed an assignment" or "isn't on the same page" and are wondering "How hard could it be?!?", remember the above---it could be one player read one thing and another player read something else...or the defensive front moved at the last second and one player didn't correctly identify it...or they didn't hear the "Mike" call...or a line call/audible was made and one player didn't resolve it properly, they perhaps got confused in the moment and ran the version of the play against an "over" front instead of the one for an "under" front,etc...there is a LOT more going on in a short time than most people ever realize and it's pretty amazing for them to not screw up more with how fast things are happening out there at times... Edited April 21, 2016 by matter2003
3rdand12 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 It all depends on the type of protection scheme they are using, the defensive alignment and the individual assignment on the play. Most people don't realize this but there is no such thing as just "calling a play" in football. The entire play changes based on the the alignment of the defense and the personnel on the field. So basically each "play" is really a set of 8-10 "sub plays" and the players have to use the right one based on the look of the defense, etc. Their assignment can change, who they block can change, what side of the formation they are on can change, etc... So when you hear a player "missed an assignment" or "isn't on the same page" and are wondering "How hard could it be?!?", remember the above---it could be one player read one thing and another player read something else...or the defensive front moved at the last second and one player didn't correctly identify it...or they didn't hear the "Mike" call...or a line call/audible was made and one player didn't resolve it properly, they perhaps got confused in the moment and ran the version of the play against an "over" front instead of the one for an "under" front,etc...there is a LOT more going on in a short time than most people ever realize and it's pretty amazing for them to not screw up more with how fast things are happening out there at times... It really is amazing how much goes into executing an Offensive play call.
Rockinon Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 For the Bills, create. It's pretty simple really. The offensive line did a great job running the ball, and they also seemed to catch defenses off guard when they did pass. Plus, Tyrod did a nice job rolling away from pressure. The OLine isn't perfect but I think they are better than given credit for. The Bills defense has to find a way to put more pressure on opposing QBs, though. If they can figure out how to take away those quick routes that everybody copied from NE last year, the defense will be dominant again. Just need an edge rusher to replace Mario(Someone that can not only get after the QB but can also hold there own in coverage). Wouldn't hurt to have a DLineman beside Darius who can disrupt plays too. I have seen a lot of teams that are sending heat on the QB up the middle. Our guys did it 2yrs. ago. Nothing wrong with just blowing up a play from the interior. Buffalo's opponents typically pass much more so that also makes creating a pass more important, if only from a percentages point of view. Buffalo is going to continue running a lot. That is Roman's M.O.
Adam Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 It all depends on the type of protection scheme they are using, the defensive alignment and the individual assignment on the play. Most people don't realize this but there is no such thing as just "calling a play" in football. The entire play changes based on the the alignment of the defense and the personnel on the field. So basically each "play" is really a set of 8-10 "sub plays" and the players have to use the right one based on the look of the defense, etc. Their assignment can change, who they block can change, what side of the formation they are on can change, etc... So when you hear a player "missed an assignment" or "isn't on the same page" and are wondering "How hard could it be?!?", remember the above---it could be one player read one thing and another player read something else...or the defensive front moved at the last second and one player didn't correctly identify it...or they didn't hear the "Mike" call...or a line call/audible was made and one player didn't resolve it properly, they perhaps got confused in the moment and ran the version of the play against an "over" front instead of the one for an "under" front,etc...there is a LOT more going on in a short time than most people ever realize and it's pretty amazing for them to not screw up more with how fast things are happening out there at times... Each play is a sub-set of the offense. How it gets run relies on many factors I don't think it can be an either/or question. You need to do both to be successful. A single protector yes but bookend tackles neutralize edge rushers. That works both way. Remember how Bruce Smith was revitalized when Paup came to town?
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