Bills Working on extensions for Gilmore & Maybe Tyrod

[26CornerBlitz]

@RyanTalbotBills

Report: Cordy Glenn's deal is at the top of Buffalo's list of priorities http://www.scout.com/nfl/bills/story/1660328-glenn-s-deal-is-at-top-of-buffalo-s-list

[Bill from NYC]

If they get a good CB high, I wonder if they will count on that CB to step up next year, and let Gilmore walk.

That is historically what the Bills do. They use top picks on corners and let them walk, only to use another top (usually first round) pick on yet another corner and repeat the process.

 

If they are going to use an early pick on a corner in 2016, I suggest that the Bills explore a trade for Gilmore. If he is 1/2 as good as posters here claim, a first round pick for Gilmore should be a given, wouldn't you say? This would save them a HUGE amount of future cap space (remember, Tyrod is due for a contract), and the team really might not suffer.

 

Call me crazy, but I would MUCH rather the Bills use cap space on Tyrod than on Gilmore.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Bill from NYC

[thebandit27]

That is historically what the Bills do. They use top picks on corners and let them walk, only to use another top (usually first round) pick on yet another corner and repeat the process.

 

If they are going to use an early pick on a corner in 2016, I suggest that the Bills explore a trade for Gilmore. If he is 1/2 as good as posters here claim, a first round pick for Gilmore should be a given, wouldn't you say? This would save them a HUGE amount of future cap space (remember, Tyrod is due for a contract), and the team really might not suffer.

 

Call me crazy, but I would MUCH rather the Bills used cap space on Tyrod than on Gilmore.

 

Bill, I know you're a stickler for details, so I want to clear up a misconception here...

 

In the last 15 years, the Bills have used 3 top picks on corners: McKelvin in 2008, Gilmore in 2012, and Darby in 2015.

 

The only guy that's seen the full term of his rookie contract expire thus far is McKelvin, and he was re-signed to a 4-year deal--he played 3 of those years.

 

So in the last 15 years, the Bills are 1/1 in re-signing the corners that they draft, which is 100% diametrically opposed to the point you're making in your first sentence.

 

As to Gilmore, I'd be shocked if they weren't able to get a 1st round pick for him (a team like Arizona, Indy, or Pittsburgh would very likely jump at the opportunity to add a 25-year old veteran to whom they could sign a long-term deal), but I'd be equally shocked if they even tried. Rex's defense relies on having great corners, and Gilmore's a guy that fits what he wants to do to a tee.

 

Thing is, this team doesn't have to decide between using cap space on Gilmore or Tyrod (or Glenn for that matter)--they have plenty of space to lock up Glenn and Gilmore and then make the decision on Taylor next February (or before if they become convinced he's their guy).

[FireChan]

 

Bill, I know you're a stickler for details, so I want to clear up a misconception here...

 

In the last 15 years, the Bills have used 3 top picks on corners: McKelvin in 2008, Gilmore in 2012, and Darby in 2015.

 

The only guy that's seen the full term of his rookie contract expire thus far is McKelvin, and he was re-signed to a 4-year deal--he played 3 of those years.

 

So in the last 15 years, the Bills are 1/1 in re-signing the corners that they draft, which is 100% diametrically opposed to the point you're making in your first sentence.

 

As to Gilmore, I'd be shocked if they weren't able to get a 1st round pick for him (a team like Arizona, Indy, or Pittsburgh would very likely jump at the opportunity to add a 25-year old veteran to whom they could sign a long-term deal), but I'd be equally shocked if they even tried. Rex's defense relies on having great corners, and Gilmore's a guy that fits what he wants to do to a tee.

 

Thing is, this team doesn't have to decide between using cap space on Gilmore or Tyrod (or Glenn for that matter)--they have plenty of space to lock up Glenn and Gilmore and then make the decision on Taylor next February (or before if they become convinced he's their guy).

If you change up your parameters just a bit, (second rounders, more than 15 years, DB's), you can throw in Byrd, AW, Donte, Clements, Tillman, Winfield, in the last 16 years.

[CommonCents]

 

Bill, I know you're a stickler for details, so I want to clear up a misconception here...

 

In the last 15 years, the Bills have used 3 top picks on corners: McKelvin in 2008, Gilmore in 2012, and Darby in 2015.

 

The only guy that's seen the full term of his rookie contract expire thus far is McKelvin, and he was re-signed to a 4-year deal--he played 3 of those years.

 

So in the last 15 years, the Bills are 1/1 in re-signing the corners that they draft, which is 100% diametrically opposed to the point you're making in your first sentence.

 

As to Gilmore, I'd be shocked if they weren't able to get a 1st round pick for him (a team like Arizona, Indy, or Pittsburgh would very likely jump at the opportunity to add a 25-year old veteran to whom they could sign a long-term deal), but I'd be equally shocked if they even tried. Rex's defense relies on having great corners, and Gilmore's a guy that fits what he wants to do to a tee.

 

 

Thing is, this team doesn't have to decide between using cap space on Gilmore or Tyrod (or Glenn for that matter)--they have plenty of space to lock up Glenn and Gilmore and then make the decision on Taylor next February (or before if they become convinced he's their guy).

I'm not so sure the teams you listed would be willing to trade a 1st for Gilmore. That's a big assumption to make when considering the contract he is going to want. Why wouldn't Arizona draft an Alexander at the end of the first round? Who is a tad smaller but would be a perfect compliment to Peterson? That is a lot safer than trading away a pick, assuming a huge contract,and having two highly paid corners.

[thebandit27]

If you change up your parameters just a bit, (second rounders, more than 15 years, DB's), you can throw in Byrd, AW, Donte, Clements, Tillman, Winfield, in the last 16 years.

 

Sure, you could do that--of course, 4 of those guys were safeties, not corners.

 

I didn't place the cutoff at 15 years specifically to cut those guys off, it was just a round number.

 

Either way, I don't think it makes sense to go much further back than 2010, since that was the year that Whaley was brought into the organization, so at least you can start to draw out patterns for his management of the roster. To do so, however, you have to take into account that Ralph was in charge of the organization until 2013, at which time Brandon took over and gave the football department much more power...then, of course, you have to take into account that the purse strings were still being pulled (albeit to a lesser extent) by the financial department.

 

The football department has really only been unshackled since Pegula bough the team in 2014, so for me, their pattern of re-signing FAs up to that point should be taken in the proper context.

[FireChan]

 

Sure, you could do that--of course, 4 of those guys were safeties, not corners.

 

I didn't place the cutoff at 15 years specifically to cut those guys off, it was just a round number.

 

Either way, I don't think it makes sense to go much further back than 2010, since that was the year that Whaley was brought into the organization, so at least you can start to draw out patterns for his management of the roster. To do so, however, you have to take into account that Ralph was in charge of the organization until 2013, at which time Brandon took over and gave the football department much more power...then, of course, you have to take into account that the purse strings were still being pulled (albeit to a lesser extent) by the financial department.

 

The football department has really only been unshackled since Pegula bough the team in 2014, so for me, their pattern of re-signing FAs up to that point should be taken in the proper context.

I always thought the "original" gripe was drafting DB's high, letting them walk when they were good to get overpaid, then drafting another DB high.

 

If we use 2014 as our benchmark, Whaley has drafted a DB high 50% of the time .

[thebandit27]

I'm not so sure the teams you listed would be willing to trade a 1st for Gilmore. That's a big assumption to make when considering the contract he is going to want. Why wouldn't Arizona draft an Alexander at the end of the first round? Who is a tad smaller but would be a perfect compliment to Peterson? That is a lot safer than trading away a pick, assuming a huge contract,and having two highly paid corners.

 

I'm not saying that it's a given, but I'd be surprised if one of those teams didn't jump at the chance.

 

Why wouldn't they draft Alexander instead? I can think of a few reasons:

 

1) He may not be there; he's been projected to go anywhere from 10 to 25; Arizona, for example, picks 29th

2) He's a rookie; corner is one of the most difficult positions in the game for any player, let alone for a rookie to adjust to playing at that level

3) Trading your pick for a guy is a guarantee--you know you're going to get him; there's no gambling that he's going to get picked sooner or choose to sign with another team

4) You know what you're getting--a guy that can cover in the NFL. Alexander may be a good prospect, but there's no telling how his game will translate. Will his relative lack of height hurt him against the bigger receivers in the game? Can he control his temperament that's gotten the better of him more than once?

 

Not trying to knock the kid; just pointing out that there are certainly reasons to go the trade route over hoping to draft a guy. As a side note, if I'm looking for a corner in this draft, I'm targeting William Jackson III out of Houston. He has exceptional speed (his 10-yard split was a 1.52--best of any DB), is a very fluid athlete, and shows a knack for interceptions.

[Bill from NYC]

If you change up your parameters just a bit, (second rounders, more than 15 years, DB's), you can throw in Byrd, AW, Donte, Clements, Tillman, Winfield, in the last 16 years.

This was my point and thanks for making it better than I did.

 

Chasing 1st round dbs goes 100% against my views of how to build a winning football team. That said, if this team had been a playoff team while doing so, I would be glad to see the process continue.

 

And I don't back down from floating at least the possibility of a trade.

[thebandit27]

I always thought the "original" gripe was drafting DB's high, letting them walk when they were good to get overpaid, then drafting another DB high.

 

If we use 2014 as our benchmark, Whaley has drafted a DB high 50% of the time .

 

I don't know--I'm only responding to the supposed "tradition" of drafting corners high and letting them walk, to which my counterpoint is that if you have to go back 16 years to find an example of it, then it's not really business-as-usual.

 

As to 2014, if we use that as our benchmark, then we can also say that Whaley:

 

- drafts an OLmen with our 2nd pick 100% of the time

- spends 30% of his picks on offensive linemen

- spends 30% of his picks on players from Clemson and Florida State

- always drafts a small-school player in round 7

 

I know you're having fun (and so am I)...I guess my real point is that trying to look back 16 years to figure out what this front office is going to do appears to me to be a Fool's Errand (not that you or Bill are fools; just think it's the best way to describe it).

This was my point and thanks for making it better than I did.

 

Chasing 1st round dbs goes 100% against my views of how to build a winning football team. That said, if this team had been a playoff team while doing so, I would be glad to see the process continue.

 

And I don't back down from floating at least the possibility of a trade.

 

I don't really have a problem with exploring a trade of Gilmore--I simply don't think you're going to get enough value to both (a) replace him adequately and (b) improve the team over and above what they'd be with an adequate replacement.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

I don't really have a problem with exploring a trade of Gilmore--I simply don't think you're going to get enough value to both (a) replace him adequately and (b) improve the team over and above what they'd be with an adequate replacement.

If a player isn't worth a first round draft pick, perhaps he isn't worth an 80 million dollar contract.

 

I am not talking in absolutes but maybe it is something to ponder.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Bill from NYC

[FireChan]

 

I don't know--I'm only responding to the supposed "tradition" of drafting corners high and letting them walk, to which my counterpoint is that if you have to go back 16 years to find an example of it, then it's not really business-as-usual.

 

As to 2014, if we use that as our benchmark, then we can also say that Whaley:

 

- drafts an OLmen with our 2nd pick 100% of the time

- spends 30% of his picks on offensive linemen

- spends 30% of his picks on players from Clemson and Florida State

- always drafts a small-school player in round 7

 

I know you're having fun (and so am I)...I guess my real point is that trying to look back 16 years to figure out what this front office is going to do appears to me to be a Fool's Errand (not that you or Bill are fools; just think it's the best way to describe it).

 

I don't really have a problem with exploring a trade of Gilmore--I simply don't think you're going to get enough value to both (a) replace him adequately and (b) improve the team over and above what they'd be with an adequate replacement.

That was totally tongue in cheek, FYI.

 

I'd agree that if we draft a CB in the first or second, I'd trade Gilly.

[thebandit27]

If a player isn't worth a first round draft pick, perhaps he isn't worth an 80 million dollar contract.

 

I am not talking in absolutes but maybe it is something to ponder.

 

Well, as I said, I do think there's a few teams that would part with a #1 pick for Gilmore--I just don't think that you can count on finding a guy that can replace him adequately with that 1st round pick, and thus you can't further count on improving upon where they were as a unit last year.

 

That was totally tongue in cheek, FYI.

 

I'd agree that if we draft a CB in the first or second, I'd trade Gilly.

 

Oh come on now, you know I know that--hence my "I know we're just having fun here" comment.

 

I'd be worried, even if they draft a guy like Jackson, that they'll be playing catch-up in the secondary. I'm already suffering from lack of confidence in the safety group; I don't need to be worried about the corners as well.

[CommonCents]

 

I'm not saying that it's a given, but I'd be surprised if one of those teams didn't jump at the chance.

 

Why wouldn't they draft Alexander instead? I can think of a few reasons:

 

1) He may not be there; he's been projected to go anywhere from 10 to 25; Arizona, for example, picks 29th

2) He's a rookie; corner is one of the most difficult positions in the game for any player, let alone for a rookie to adjust to playing at that level

3) Trading your pick for a guy is a guarantee--you know you're going to get him; there's no gambling that he's going to get picked sooner or choose to sign with another team

4) You know what you're getting--a guy that can cover in the NFL. Alexander may be a good prospect, but there's no telling how his game will translate. Will his relative lack of height hurt him against the bigger receivers in the game? Can he control his temperament that's gotten the better of him more than once?

 

Not trying to knock the kid; just pointing out that there are certainly reasons to go the trade route over hoping to draft a guy. As a side note, if I'm looking for a corner in this draft, I'm targeting William Jackson III out of Houston. He has exceptional speed (his 10-yard split was a 1.52--best of any DB), is a very fluid athlete, and shows a knack for interceptions.

I haven't seen enough of Jackson but your word is more than good in my book. That just adds to my suspicions that Gilmore's value is really going to be hindered by his future deal. Jackson would provide teams another option in the late first round window. I'm sold on Alexander I'm not sure how much you have seen of him but when healthy he changes the game.

 

One of the worst trades ever was Tampa trading a 1st and a 4th for Revis, assuming the 16 million and then cutting him a year later. I just don't see it. Heck what else do teams value besides corners, pass rushers. Chandler Jones only yielded a late second round pick in a similar contract situation. I think that would be a more realistic expectation for a return.

 

So Arizona would trade away their 2nd for Jones who is heading to FA, and then trade their 1st for Gilmore whose contract is also up? Eccckkk that would really be playing with fire and ignoring the benefits of the RWS.

[BarleyNY]

Neither player's agent seems to understand that the current situation will favor neither player or are looking at their own interests first; players on winning teams will generally get more than on losing teams. Signing a contract with commitment by team to spend on upgrading the offense and defense will help both players look better. Such players have better chance of endorsements. But the agents will encourage players to wait as long as possible to get highest possible commission since there is no guarantee that the agents will not be replaced later in player's career.

 

Players should be looking for what some home buyers look for - a different type of agent which is paid for advice, paperwork, etc but is getting paid fee or lower commission; it works well in some housing markets although there are some housing developer who will not deal with Buyer's agents.

I couldn't disagree more. The agents are doing their jobs well here - and they're different situations. Glenn's prime window for doing a long term deal starts post-draft and improves right up until the negotiation deadline for tagged players. His best bet is to negotiate right up until the deadline. Oh and about those money hungry agents trying to maximize their commissions - those agents generally make a higher commission on endorsements than they do on contracts. And what endorsements is Glenn getting anyway?

 

Gilmore has more flexibility. He can let this drag on into the season if he wants. It's a gamble (obviously), but some players bet on themselves looking for that extra huge deal. One of the parties involved will probably set an arbitrary deadline after which they won't negotiate until after the season ends. Just prior to the start of the season is usually the time someone cuts off negotiations if it happens. In any event, stringing along negotiations until that deadline - or the deadline the player is comfortable with - is the best negotiation strategy. No pro in negotiations gives their best offer until they have to. Again, endorsements are negligible here. A lot more money is at stake for Gilmore on this contract than any endorsement he'll ever get and the impact of waiting a few months to get a deal done is probably zero.

 

And you're crazy on the switching agents thing. Not only is it not warranted here, are you seriously saying that guys signing deals that'll likely be in the $60M-$90M range should go with the lowest cost provider to negotiate those deals? Think about that for a minute because it's ludicrous.

[FireChan]

 

Well, as I said, I do think there's a few teams that would part with a #1 pick for Gilmore--I just don't think that you can count on finding a guy that can replace him adequately with that 1st round pick, and thus you can't further count on improving upon where they were as a unit last year.

 

 

Oh come on now, you know I know that--hence my "I know we're just having fun here" comment.

 

I'd be worried, even if they draft a guy like Jackson, that they'll be playing catch-up in the secondary. I'm already suffering from lack of confidence in the safety group; I don't need to be worried about the corners as well.

Fair.

 

The real question is, is Robey on the bubble this year?

[thebandit27]

Fair.

 

The real question is, is Robey on the bubble this year?

 

I don't know, but I don't think he should feel comfortable. He didn't play well last year, and he should be getting pushed by Moore IMO.

[26CornerBlitz]

@BuffRumblings

Next up for the #Bills: three significant contract extension decisions to make https://t.co/uXtPv5GzQI

The 2016 NFL Draft is only just in the rearview mirror for the Buffalo Bills, but with the current CBA eliminating the drama of signing rookies to their first pro contracts, the heavy lifting on the accounting front this summer will revolve around three of the team's starters.

Bills training camp is now less than three months away, and while there is no shortage of intriguing story lines surrounding the team heading into that event, few are as compelling as the contract statuses of three of their most recognizable starters. Whether or not the Bills can reach contract extensions with any or all of those three players before camp will be a hot discussion topic for the foreseeable future.

Glenn and Gilmore should be priorities before Tyrod. Gotta get Glenn's 2016 cap number down to give the team some breathing room for this season.

[26CornerBlitz]

Will be interesting to see the numbers of this for obvious reasons.

@JosinaAnderson

Source: #Saints LT "(Terron Armstead will be signing 5-year extension today."

[26CornerBlitz]

No terms yet.

 

@Saints

Saints sign @T_Armstead72 to a five-year contract extension: http://bit.ly/1X7glkK