Nix vs. Whaley, the final showdown

[Sisyphean Bills]

Chan Gailey was no doubt on board with the moves made while he was here. How many times did he profess that he and Nix were exactly on the same page? Even after he was let go, he said he'd be a fan of the Buffalo Bills. Which sounds an awful lot like he had invested a lot of himself in the team, does it not?

 

Everyone understands that Gailey let his defensive staff do it their way. And Dave Wannstedt's way was to build a defensive line of superstars and let that unit physically control the game. Wannstedt failed in a historically bad way. But that doesn't mean Nix and Gailey were against that plan at the time. Indeed, to say now that anyone was against the plan flies in the face of the facts.

 

What is interesting now is that Rex's system has been markedly different. Having four studs upfront who can wreck havoc in both the running and passing game is not what his defense has historically been about. His defenses are more known for platooning players, exotic looks, blitzes, multiple coverages. Ryan's defense is about pressuring the QB and forcing him to think fast and make mistakes. Wannstedt's defense, which got shredded far worse, was pure vanilla, what you see week 1 is what you get week 16.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

How is it the "final showdown"? The book is not closed on Whaley.

 

Indeed!

 

Add in the fact that a good GM is bound to try to supply the type of talent his coach needs to succeed (unless the coach truly is that rare, "just give me football players" guy), and that the input of coach and FO (Russ "I need a flashy move to sell tickets here" Brandon) is unknowable, it seems like an unknowable question for the fans.

 

Aside: For some reason when I read the thread title I keep thinking of the "Final Countdown" Geico ad

[Ronin]

 

Wait, really?

 

The guy was a career scout, why do you think he was hired? Because he knew how to "navigate the NFL landscape"? No. Not even close. He was hired for his ability to evaluate players. Period.

 

But don't take my word for it:

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4785461

 

A few key quotes:

 

"I'm here to introduce somebody that we've needed for a long time, something the fans and everybody in the area and myself have wanted, and that's a general manager of football," Wilson said, adding that his decision came down to two in-house candidates. "We really needed somebody who knew all aspects of football."

 

"At 70, Nix had been out of football after retiring in 2008 following a five-year stint as the San Diego Chargers assistant GM/director of player personnel, where he worked under A.J. Smith."

 

Career scout, former coach. Nothing to do with administrative work.

 

 

 

Whaley has been in charge of personnel since May of 2013.

 

Following the only two offseasons since Whaley has been in charge, the team went 9-7 and 8-8.

 

It's not debatable, go position-by-position from the time Nix was hired to now.

 

Not...even...close.

 

And this is why we have clueless fans. Selective memory/research.

 

So they brought Whaley on as Asst. GM/Director of Pro Personnel just for kicks and giggles. Sure, I see.

 

OK.

 

Meanwhile, I'll defer to the official position of the team and you can defer to whatever nonsense and bilge that places like ESPN puts out.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Whaley-named-Asst-GMDirector-Pro-Personnel/f2444030-483e-403c-bb59-204c46f3d4d8

 

I'll even excerpt the relevant point for you:

 

"He will oversee the franchise’s pro personnel department as well as assist General Manager Buddy Nix in all football-related administrative duties and in the college talent evaluation process."

 

Frankly, the whole debacle was yet one more brick in the road of "what the hell were they thinking/doing," particularly as it now turns out.

 

Meanwhile, this debate about whose pick Manuel was, Whaley's or Nix's, is among the most senseless discussions on the internet. Whaley's fully on video talking about it was all but directly his pick, yet, for some unbeknownst reason the experts here seems to know better than Whaley himself.

 

There are good jobs out there, very well paying, for people that can read other peoples' minds.

What's funny is that alongside the ESPN link that you posted ESPN also posts the same one that bb.com did, thereby directly contradicting themselves.

 

Some people have learned to navigate around sites like ESPN for that very reason. Take note.

[GunnerBill]

Nix was a scout. That is what he had been all his post-coaching career - he was not an admin guy. They brought Whaley in to assist him because they had just hired a 70 year old General Manager, you didn't have to been a genius to see that was not a long term move. The idea was hire one of the brightest young football minds out there and groom him as the successor.

 

There was nothing more to it than that.

 

 

An interesting point that struck me when commenting on the "worst recent draft moves" thread was that Gailey's influence was part of the reason I think the Bills shied away from taking a young Quarterback while Fitz was here. Gailey was pretty committed to Fitz as his starter.... I am not sure Chan was great at handling big personalities and a QB controversy would not have suited him.

Edited April 13, 2016 by GunnerBill

[thebandit27]

 

And this is why we have clueless fans. Selective memory/research.

 

So they brought Whaley on as Asst. GM/Director of Pro Personnel just for kicks and giggles. Sure, I see.

 

OK.

 

Meanwhile, I'll defer to the official position of the team and you can defer to whatever nonsense and bilge that places like ESPN puts out.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Whaley-named-Asst-GMDirector-Pro-Personnel/f2444030-483e-403c-bb59-204c46f3d4d8

 

I'll even excerpt the relevant point for you:

 

"He will oversee the franchise’s pro personnel department as well as assist General Manager Buddy Nix in all football-related administrative duties and in the college talent evaluation process."

 

Frankly, the whole debacle was yet one more brick in the road of "what the hell were they thinking/doing," particularly as it now turns out.

 

Meanwhile, this debate about whose pick Manuel was, Whaley's or Nix's, is among the most senseless discussions on the internet. Whaley's fully on video talking about it was all but directly his pick, yet, for some unbeknownst reason the experts here seems to know better than Whaley himself.

 

There are good jobs out there, very well paying, for people that can read other peoples' minds.

What's funny is that alongside the ESPN link that you posted ESPN also posts the same one that bb.com did, thereby directly contradicting themselves.

 

Some people have learned to navigate around sites like ESPN for that very reason. Take note.

 

I'll refrain from responding to the personal attack, and simply say that it doesn't help your argument at all.

 

You haven't contradicted a single thing that I said.

 

You said that Buddy Nix wasn't in charge of personnel; instead implying that he was merely there to "conduct damage control at the league level and to reorient a sinking ship."

 

That's not correct--he's a career scout; he was hired for his experience in personnel. Here, direct quote from the guy that hired him:

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/9/16/2429342/buffalo-bills-ralph-wilson-buddy-nix-chan-gailey

 

"I finally found out after all these years you have to have a scout ... a football guy, as your general manager," Wilson told Mark Gaughan. "He's got to go out and see the player, talk to the player, talk to his family, see how interested he is in the game. That's what Buddy does."

 

If that doesn't clear up your confusion, then I don't know what will.

 

Of course Whaley--the Assistant GM--was hired to assist. That's what an assistant does; they assist. That I have to explain this is, frankly, crazy, but what the heck, ya know?

 

Buddy was the GM. He was in charge of personnel; it was the reason that they hired him--for his experience as a career scout. It had nothing to do with administrative issues. In fact, reading the quote you posted, it seems that they hired Whaley more for administrative issues than Nix. Not that Whaley wasn't brought on for his role in personnel; that was part of it too (as you quoted).

 

Overall, not one thing I said has been contradicted, and if anything, you've supported my argument.

 

Hope that clears things up.

 

Oh, and my opinion is that higher quality discussion takes place when folks are capable of accurately supporting their own stance without being condescending, especially when they're wrong.

[Ronin]

Nix was a scout. That is what he had been all his post-coaching career - he was not an admin guy. They brought Whaley in to assist him because they had just hired a 70 year old General Manager, you didn't have to been a genius to see that was not a long term move. The idea was hire one of the brightest young football minds out there and groom him as the successor.

 

There was nothing more to it than that.

 

 

An interesting point that struck me when commenting on the "worst recent draft moves" thread was that Gailey's influence was part of the reason I think the Bills shied away from taking a young Quarterback while Fitz was here. Gailey was pretty committed to Fitz as his starter.... I am not sure Chan was great at handling big personalities and a QB controversy would not have suited him.

 

Say what people here will say, Nix was not brought in to lead the personnel process. The team has said so and I even provided the original link to Whaley's hiring.

 

Otherwise, how completely idiotic would it have been, and not saying it wasn't, to hire Whaley to then oversee personnel which the GM is typically entrusted with.

 

Back at the time the organization was at a fork in the road and coming off of a decade of grand incompetence, and not that that hasn't been extended by six more seasons or anything, just saying. They wanted to hedge their decisions on all fronts but as usual, Brandon & Co. just didn't nor do have a clue. Otherwise we wouldn't be the poster-team for NFL futility right now and beyond criticism by others for no other reason than sheer pity.

[GunnerBill]

 

Say what people here will say, Nix was not brought in to lead the personnel process. The team has said so and I even provided the original link to Whaley's hiring.

 

 

 

I don't think you have properly understood the report you have linked to if you believe that is what it says.

 

It says Whaley would oversee the "pro personnel" department. The Bills have someone who does that now... his name is Rob Hanrahan. He, along with Calvin Fisher who oversees the college scouting department feeds in to Jim Monos who oversees all player personnel issues and is the de-facto "Assistant GM" and then all 3 report to the man who leads the personnel department - Doug Whaley who is the General Manager.

 

It is called having a structure in place. Buddy was a career scout with scouting expertise he headed the personnel operation as GM the same way that Whaley does now. Back then Doug Whaley, at least initially, (his remit broadened gradually) was responsible for leading the pro personnel section.

Edited April 13, 2016 by GunnerBill

[Ronin]

 

I'll refrain from responding to the personal attack, and simply say that it doesn't help your argument at all.

 

You haven't contradicted a single thing that I said.

 

You said that Buddy Nix wasn't in charge of personnel; instead implying that he was merely there to "conduct damage control at the league level and to reorient a sinking ship."

 

That's not correct--he's a career scout; he was hired for his experience in personnel. Here, direct quote from the guy that hired him:

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/9/16/2429342/buffalo-bills-ralph-wilson-buddy-nix-chan-gailey

 

"I finally found out after all these years you have to have a scout ... a football guy, as your general manager," Wilson told Mark Gaughan. "He's got to go out and see the player, talk to the player, talk to his family, see how interested he is in the game. That's what Buddy does."

 

If that doesn't clear up your confusion, then I don't know what will.

 

Of course Whaley--the Assistant GM--was hired to assist. That's what an assistant does; they assist. That I have to explain this is, frankly, crazy, but what the heck, ya know?

 

Buddy was the GM. He was in charge of personnel; it was the reason that they hired him--for his experience as a career scout. It had nothing to do with administrative issues. In fact, reading the quote you posted, it seems that they hired Whaley more for administrative issues than Nix. Not that Whaley wasn't brought on for his role in personnel; that was part of it too (as you quoted).

 

Overall, not one thing I said has been contradicted, and if anything, you've supported my argument.

 

Hope that clears things up.

 

Oh, and my opinion is that higher quality discussion takes place when folks are capable of accurately supporting their own stance without being condescending, especially when they're wrong.

 

OK

 

The info is out there.

 

There was no intent at a personal attack, but when you cite sources like ESPN of all things, I mean really, does it need to be explained that ESPN is beyond worthless. People relying on them for factual info are among the most uninformed and ignorant (of the actual topic matter that is) in this arena.

 

I get it otherwise, implicitly the option here is that iyo Whaley's role was purely cosmetic.

 

I disagree. I chalk it all up to some of the biggest incompetence that any NFL team has ever seen.

 

This is why sports jobs are great, there's very little actual accountability for people making millions and particularly the talking heads on TV/internet. They can say whatever they want, be 100% wrong, and then return to the office in the a.m. and continue working as if nothing ever happened.

 

Then again, sports is not a life and death matter either, so in one sense what difference does it make. Our options as fans are to support the outcomes or not to. As for me, I support the team, but I will not support it with my wallet until, if ever, they pull their act together. Not one dime. That's our only recourse.

 

Either way, I've heard people here insist that Manuel was Nix's pick when Nix is on record merely as having "supported" the pick, while Whaley's on video record saying the following;

 

 

It can't possibly be made any clearer that by Whaley's own words Manuel was his choice, not to mention his follow-ups like that ludicrous trade for Watkins, which after the season more people will agree, to cover his own tracks, yet, people argue against Whaley's own words on record. And people seeing the obvious are supposed to take that serious and think that those fans know what they're talking about?

 

OK

[GunnerBill]

As for the EJ pick - that happened at the time they were close to completing the transition. I believe that Buddy Nix decided they were taking a Quarterback in the first round in 2013.... but I believe EJ Manuel was essentially Whaley's choice.

 

EDIT: I don't know that to be true but there is evidence, as you have indicated, that Whaley was all in on EJ.

Edited April 13, 2016 by GunnerBill

[thebandit27]

 

OK

 

The info is out there.

 

There was no intent at a personal attack, but when you cite sources like ESPN of all things, I mean really, does it need to be explained that ESPN is beyond worthless. People relying on them for factual info are among the most uninformed and ignorant (of the actual topic matter that is) in this arena.

 

I get it otherwise, implicitly the option here is that iyo Whaley's role was purely cosmetic.

 

I disagree. I chalk it all up to some of the biggest incompetence that any NFL team has ever seen.

 

This is why sports jobs are great, there's very little actual accountability for people making millions and particularly the talking heads on TV/internet. They can say whatever they want, be 100% wrong, and then return to the office in the a.m. and continue working as if nothing ever happened.

 

Then again, sports is not a life and death matter either, so in one sense what difference does it make. Our options as fans are to support the outcomes or not to. As for me, I support the team, but I will not support it with my wallet until, if ever, they pull their act together. Not one dime. That's our only recourse.

 

Either way, I've heard people here insist that Manuel was Nix's pick when Nix is on record merely as having "supported" the pick, while Whaley's on video record saying the following;

 

 

It can't possibly be made any clearer that by Whaley's own words Manuel was his choice, not to mention his follow-ups like that ludicrous trade for Watkins, which after the season more people will agree, to cover his own tracks, yet, people argue against Whaley's own words on record. And people seeing the obvious are supposed to take that serious and think that those fans know what they're talking about?

 

OK

 

I can't believe you're having this much trouble right now.

 

#1 - if you call someone clueless, which is what you did, expect that to come across as a personal attack. You're furthering your "non personal attack" by now calling me ignorant.

 

Your understanding of the situation is wholly flawed. You're demonstrating it further by characterizing my statements as saying Whaley's role was purely cosmetic--it's now apparent to me that the problem isn't my explanation or the availability of information that refutes your notion.

 

Basically, your only response to anything that I've said is to say that Whaley was in charge of the personnel dep't (he wasn't) and that Whaley picked EJ. Okay, when did I say that Whaley wasn't on board with that pick? I'm sure he was, he was the asst. GM.

 

I'm through debating this topic at this point--I can only show you so many times what's obvious.

As for the EJ pick - that happened at the time they were close to completing the transition. I believe that Buddy Nix decided they were taking a Quarterback in the first round in 2013.... but I believe EJ Manuel was essentially Whaley's choice.

 

EDIT: I don't know that to be true but there is evidence, as you have indicated, that Whaley was all in on EJ.

 

Nix technically had "final say" at that point, but my understanding (from both folks I know and others on this board with solid info) is that the whole personnel dept. was determined to take a QB and had decided that EJ was the guy with the most upside.

[Jauronimo]

 

Wild claims. Yes. Wild. Completely !@#$ing wild to think that the HC would have a major say in the third overall pick and the guy signing the must lucrative contract in franchise history.

 

WILD!!

Here's an idea for your next poll: do our lungs really need oxygen? Then you can bludgeon people with demands for links when the answer comes back counter to your ever-contrarian take.

Or may be that's too wild.

I see you subscribe to the birddog school of thought whereby the ostensibly plausible becomes highly likely and then is the basis for opinion. Yes, its plausible that Gailey was highly involved in drafting Dareus and signing Mario, but there is no reason to believe that he was involved from everything I've read. Its equally plausible that Chan, the offensive megamind, wanted AJ Green in the three spot and I have just as much evidence to support that opinion. None.

 

Since you claim Gailey advocated for the two players, an idea that I haven't seen on this board, its not unreasonable that you back it up with something more than "well, its possible".

[Ronin]

 

I don't think you have properly understood the report you have linked to if you believe that is what it says.

 

It says Whaley would oversee the "pro personnel" department. The Bills have someone who does that now... his name is Rob Hanrahan. He, along with Calvin Fisher who oversees the college scouting department reports to Jim Monos who oversees all player personnel issues and is the de-facto "Assistant GM" and then the personnel department is headed by Doug Whaley who is the General Manager.

 

It is called having a structure in place. Buddy was a career scout with scouting expertise he headed the personnel operation as GM the same way that Whaley does now. Back then Doug Whaley, at least initially, (his remit broadened gradually) was responsible for leading the pro personnel section.

 

OK

 

But once again we have here on your part only a half-reading of the situation. Hanrahan is not also Asst. GM now, is he.

 

And frankly, the transparent, at least to the astute, manner in which they handled Nix's "retirement/quitting," was shameful. They essentially stripped Nix of his duties in November at the end of one season while making it unofficial but clear that Whaley would replace him at some imminent point in the short/medium-term future, and then left Nix dangling in the wind to buy a season of a scapegoat for Whaley and those that would remain and then allowed Whaley to conduct that sorry 2013 Draft that currently has one less-than-starting-caliber player on the team while allowing, or at least trying to allow by those that would be fooled by it, Nix to take the blame for it, again, when per the video above the single biggest draft pick in that draft was Whaley's brainchild, and again, not by my words, but by Whaley's own words.

 

He realized that his future should have been tied to that pick, ironic that the fans support his lackluster drafting since then, which have produced hardly anything worth mentioning after round 2 not to mention one idiotic trade up.

 

Many fans deserve this team as it now is.

As for the EJ pick - that happened at the time they were close to completing the transition. I believe that Buddy Nix decided they were taking a Quarterback in the first round in 2013.... but I believe EJ Manuel was essentially Whaley's choice.

 

EDIT: I don't know that to be true but there is evidence, as you have indicated, that Whaley was all in on EJ.

 

The point is that it really doesn't matter what you or I believe if facts are present. Those annoying facts, always getting in the way of a good argument.

 

The fact is that Whaley has admitted that it was his pick. Shouldn't that end the argument? It did for me years ago. Why it hasn't for some people only leaves those of us being able to pick up on that fact to speculate on why not, but certainly emotional favoritism is hardly out of the mix of potential reasons. Those aren't driven by facts however, they're driven by personal preference.

 

So unless people think that Whaley lied, another possibility I guess, although one that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and if that's the case, then what's the use of keeping a liar of a GM in place.

[Thurman#1]

Yes but that's irrelevant.

 

I suppose my point can be broken down to my OP list. Gun to your head, which list do you take Buddy's or Whaley's. I take Buddy's and don't look back. I think there's at least a good argument to be made for it, no? If so, why is there this prevailing notion that Whaley is soooooo much better than Buddy? It makes no sense.

 

Right, but seeing as we don't know exactly who did what, the best we can do is judge them on the moves while they were making the calls, no?

 

Right, Maybin draft, I knew that.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. And if you judge them by who was making the calls, the trade for Hughes was a Nix move.

 

I'm still hoping for Whaley to surge into the lead. Perhaps with his third draft he'll do so. Worth remembering he's only helmed two so far. Right now I give it to Nix, and in Nix's legacy I include Whaley himself.

[Beerball]

move friggin along already

[Thurman#1]

Either way, I've heard people here insist that Manuel was Nix's pick when Nix is on record merely as having "supported" the pick, while Whaley's on video record saying the following;

 

 

It can't possibly be made any clearer that by Whaley's own words Manuel was his choice ...

 

 

Yeah, it could easily be made clearer that Manuel was his choice. If he, you know, said so. Which he doesn't, in that video or anywhere.

 

What is made very very clear there is that Whaley loved the choice. What's not said is that he himself pulled the trigger. Whaley has never distanced himself in the slightest from the choice of Manuel. It's clear he wanted him. But that doesn't mean he was in control at that time. He's never said he was, nor has anyone else associated with the Bills.

 

That's what you're trying to prove with this video, yes? That he was in charge? And yet it simply isn't said. Maybe you're only arguing that Whaley was on board, and if so, you're very clearly right about that, but I don't think anyone has argued that he wasn't on board. What they're arguing very reasonably is that he wasn't in charge. And in his speech there, he never said he was.

 

Same with your other evidence above, it doesn't prove what you're saying it does. When you argue that Nix has never been a personnel guy, that's just clearly wrong. It's what his career was about after he quit coaching in '93. He was a scout. That's personnel.

 

Oh, and I'm no Whaley apologist. I agree with you that the Sammy trade was a bad one. Like everyone else, I love Sammy but that was bad value and that's how you judge a trade. And the choice of Ryan certainly destroyed that defense last year, though perhaps they'll be able to build it up again next year. But they had a terrific defense in 2013 and 2014 and bringing in Ryan brought that to a stop. If there's one thing that has blighted the Bills in the Nix/Whaley era it's a constant flip-flop back and forth from 3-4 to 4-3 and back, causing them to waste a ton of picks on guys who a year later didn't fit. The choice of Ryan caused yet another of those flipflops. Now they're back to being forced to use another draft to focus on guys who fit the Ryan defense (or so it looks right now anyway, though the picks themselves will of course tell the story).

Edited April 13, 2016 by Thurman#1

[JohnC]

 

 

What is interesting now is that Rex's system has been markedly different. Having four studs upfront who can wreck havoc in both the running and passing game is not what his defense has historically been about. His defenses are more known for platooning players, exotic looks, blitzes, multiple coverages. Ryan's defense is about pressuring the QB and forcing him to think fast and make mistakes. Wannstedt's defense, which got shredded far worse, was pure vanilla, what you see week 1 is what you get week 16.

Pettine who worked with Rex in New York was able to utilize the individual talents on the DL and adjust his approach to defense compared to what was used in New York. Although he blitzed a lot more than the Schwartz defense the bottom line was both defenses, although different in philosophy, were effective.

 

The failure of the Rex system when compared to Pettine's defense was that he wasn't able to utilize the individual talents on the DL By stifling the full throttle rush of the defense he exposed some of the limitations of our LBing corps that were masked when the DL played a more attacking style.

 

It seems to me that Rex was more insistent on having the defense adapt to his preference in defensive philosophy than modifying his philosophy to better utilize the talent he had on hand.

 

You are accurately describing Rex's approach to the defense compared to Wannstedt's. But it is interesting to observe that Pettine who coached under Rex was more flexible when implementing the Rex influenced defense when he was in Buffalo than was his mentor.

[The Big Cat]

I see you subscribe to the birddog school of thought whereby the ostensibly plausible becomes highly likely and then is the basis for opinion. Yes, its plausible that Gailey was highly involved in drafting Dareus and signing Mario, but there is no reason to believe that he was involved from everything I've read. Its equally plausible that Chan, the offensive megamind, wanted AJ Green in the three spot and I have just as much evidence to support that opinion. None.

 

Since you claim Gailey advocated for the two players, an idea that I haven't seen on this board, its not unreasonable that you back it up with something more than "well, its possible".

 

You guys have really outdone yourselves.

[Jauronimo]

 

You guys have really outdone yourselves.

Excellent cop out.

 

Quick list of reasons to believe Gailey wasn't involved in these decisions:

1. Gailey ran the offense and had virtually no involvement in that teams defense.

2. Gailey was outspoken about drafting a waterbug type RB prior to the Spiller pick; no such talk about a run stuffing DT before the Dareus pick.

3. All evidence of Gailey's involvement in free agency is centered on Brad Smith and Thigpen.

 

You can present no other reason to believe that Gailey influenced the Dareus pick or Mario signing other than its ostensible, yet you choose to believe it anyway. If my memory fails me, then by all means, produce a source. Your own specious reasoning is not a viable substitute despite your protests.

[The Big Cat]

Excellent cop out.

 

Quick list of reasons to believe Gailey wasn't involved in these decisions:

1. Gailey ran the offense and had virtually no involvement in that teams defense.

2. Gailey was outspoken about drafting a waterbug type RB prior to the Spiller pick; no such talk about a run stuffing DT before the Dareus pick.

3. All evidence of Gailey's involvement in free agency is centered on Brad Smith and Thigpen.

 

You can present no other reason to believe that Gailey influenced the Dareus pick or Mario signing other than its ostensible, yet you choose to believe it anyway. If my memory fails me, then by all means, produce a source. Your own specious reasoning is not a viable substitute despite your protests.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81faba11/article/buffalo-bills-dismiss-oftcriticized-chief-scout-modrak

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/archive/_/month/april-2011/count/11

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Gailey-on-Mario-Williams-signing/69f684ad-d329-4e69-b240-79b134b95c8e

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/03/16/mario-williams-bills-nfl-free-agency-buffalo/

Specious reasoning. What a laugh.

[Jauronimo]

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81faba11/article/buffalo-bills-dismiss-oftcriticized-chief-scout-modrak

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/archive/_/month/april-2011/count/11

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Gailey-on-Mario-Williams-signing/69f684ad-d329-4e69-b240-79b134b95c8e

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/03/16/mario-williams-bills-nfl-free-agency-buffalo/

Specious reasoning. What a laugh.

That's what you came up with and you actually posted it? Well I'm convinced.

 

Yours is a special kind of belief perseverance.