Nix vs. Whaley, the final showdown

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Marv gets a lot of crap on here but he did draft Lynch, Woods and Levitre. Based on our record the talent on the roster has been pretty much the same

Marv, literally slept through the entire scouting meeting (and then woke up and started stretching). He didn't draft anybody.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[JohnC]

Would you at least agree that the Whaley/Nix Bills have a lot more talent than the Modrak/Guy Bills?

What's the point? You are not competing against oneself. You are competing against other teams with strong organizations. Getting better in relationship to what?This is a bottom-line business where your team can be getting better but are they getting better at a more rapid rate that are teams are also getting better?

 

Overall I like Whaley. He has taken an enlightened approach in running an organization. But how can any organization be taken seriously that would hire a Rex Ryan as a coach? Due diligence wasn't too difficult to do in this situation. Rex Ryan was a known quantity from a record and stylistic standpoint.

 

The hiring of Rex was an organizational failure. I don't know how much influence DW had in the hiring. But whether he was the main factor in this peculiar hire (I doubt it) he should have been more strenuous in objecting to this selection. Ultimately he may be a casualty from that decision.

[Malazan]

How is it the "final showdown"? The book is not closed on Whaley.

 

because it's firechan and the entire poll is about pushing his anti-bills agenda

[BillsVet]

This is pretty funny. You manipulate stats to push through your agenda (yes it's an agenda as evidenced by every single post you've made). You want to use record to show ineptness yet you ignore the most recent years which have been an improvement. You talk about cap management when the only player of substance they sacrificed was Mario Williams who was never going to play under a $16M cap number. We can also say uncertainty at QB, but they are not the Broncos. The guy under center went to the Pro Bowl in his 1st year as starter.

 

Everything isn't sunshine and rainbows. It isn't a funeral either. Until you realize that your posts continue to come across as an agenda. Its okay to recognize the good and criticize the bad. Try it sometime!! Say that Watkins is great or the Bills run the ball well. Say something nice about the draft steal in Darby. Talk about what a find Tyrod was. There is good and bad; why can't you see that? You don't always need to be shouting, "get off my lawn."

 

Where's the manipulation of stats? They are 39-57 over the past 6 seasons (2010-2015) with Doug Whaley employed by the team as essentially lead personnel guy. They are 23-25 with Whaley as GM (2013-2015), who has had way more money to spend than his predecessors.

 

I doubt the direction the team is headed. Offensively they've built a team to run the ball in a passing league. The defense is complex and not flexible, requiring new talent to fit the scheme as opposed to the SB winning team that ran a more slimmed down defensive playbook.

 

Oh, and (EDIT: their) lack of cap space prevented signing more than some depth players, which were admittedly necessary.

Edited April 8, 2016 by BillsVet

[eball]

 

Where's the manipulation of stats? They are 39-57 over the past 6 seasons (2010-2015) with Doug Whaley employed by the team as essentially lead personnel guy. They are 23-25 with Whaley as GM (2013-2015), who has had way more money to spend than his predecessors.

 

I doubt the direction the team is headed. Offensively they've built a team to run the ball in a passing league. The defense is complex and not flexible, requiring new talent to fit the scheme as opposed to the SB winning team that ran a more slimmed down defensive playbook.

 

Oh, and (EDIT: their) lack of cap space prevented signing more than some depth players, which were admittedly necessary.

 

In other words....

 

 

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

[White Linen]

What's the point? You are not competing against oneself. You are competing against other teams with strong organizations. Getting better in relationship to what?This is a bottom-line business where your team can be getting better but are they getting better at a more rapid rate that are teams are also getting better?

 

Overall I like Whaley. He has taken an enlightened approach in running an organization. But how can any organization be taken seriously that would hire a Rex Ryan as a coach? Due diligence wasn't too difficult to do in this situation. Rex Ryan was a known quantity from a record and stylistic standpoint.

The hiring of Rex was an organizational failure. I don't know how much influence DW had in the hiring. But whether he was the main factor in this peculiar hire (I doubt it) he should have been more strenuous in objecting to this selection. Ultimately he may be a casualty from that decision.

 

But you'll never know the extent of Whaley's approval or disapproval of Ryan - so how can you judge that he should have been "more strenuous"? You're linking his longevity to that decision with no knowledge of that possibility.

[John from Riverside]

 

Where's the manipulation of stats? They are 39-57 over the past 6 seasons (2010-2015) with Doug Whaley employed by the team as essentially lead personnel guy. They are 23-25 with Whaley as GM (2013-2015), who has had way more money to spend than his predecessors.

 

Well Doug Whaley was on the staff at the time.......GET OUT THE PITCHFORKS BOYS

 

I doubt the direction the team is headed. Offensively they've built a team to run the ball in a passing league. The defense is complex and not flexible, requiring new talent to fit the scheme as opposed to the SB winning team that ran a more slimmed down defensive playbook.

 

Worked for Seattle

 

Oh, and (EDIT: their) lack of cap space prevented signing more than some depth players, which were admittedly necessary.

 

Oversimplification (but that has always been your style)

 

- The money was spent LAST YEAR on players....most of which are still on the team

- Maybe you did notice....but we actually signed our own.......then got veteran depth at several key positions which was absolutely necessary. The key loss is Mario but I would be shocked if this was not addressed in the draft early

[JohnC]

 

But you'll never know the extent of Whaley's approval or disapproval of Ryan - so how can you judge that he should have been "more strenuous"? You're linking his longevity to that decision with no knowledge of that possibility.

We don't know for sure. That is my point! If the team falters because of the "Rex effect" his job status will also be affected whether he wanted Rex or not.

 

Was Whaley strenuous in his objections to a Rex hire? I doubt it. That is not to say that he favored the hire or preferred him over other candidates. If a GM makes it clear to a new owner that a particular candidate is not suited for the position I doubt that the owner would have so quickly made the hire. Acquiescing to this hire, whether he was happy with the selection or not, still affected him as to how he performs at his job.

[John from Riverside]

We don't know for sure. That is my point! If the team falters because of the "Rex effect" his job status will also be affected whether he wanted Rex or not.

 

Was Whaley strenuous in his objections to a Rex hire? I doubt it. That is not to say that he favored the hire or preferred him over other candidates. If a GM makes it clear to a new owner that a particular candidate is not suited for the position I doubt that the owner would have so quickly made the hire. Acquiescing to this hire, whether he was happy with the selection or not, still affected him as to how he performs at his job.

Why would Whaley strenuously object to the Rex Hire? A defensive minded HC who has had past success?

 

When we are talking about RR getting hired we need to pair that up with who was actually available.....

 

Maybe Whaley went along with it? Maybe he actually endorsed it?

 

Its year 1 and some folks.....THEY MIGHT NOT BE WRONG

[hondo in seattle]

2013 was when Buddy officially stepped down and Whaley was named GM, but Whaley was spearheading all the scouting on the college level as well as running the pro personnel side of things well before that. Buddy may have been the face of the office, but Whaley was running most of the show.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

It's hard to know how much influence Whaley had before Nix's retirement. Clearly there was a lot.

 

But didn't Doug hire three new key guys in the weeks after his promotion? In other words, didn't he make some big changes once he got the authority to do so? In other other words, DW was not the de facto GM before Nix's retirement. He wasn't allowed to do everything he wanted to do.

Edited April 8, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[BuffaloBill]

Whaley has made a couple of brilliant trades. Hughes and Shady have proven to be steals. The issue with both of them is that the lack of THE QB has left the team underplaying its potential. If TT becomes THE guy Whaley will be seen as brilliant.

[FireChan]

Whaley has made a couple of brilliant trades. Hughes and Shady have proven to be steals. The issue with both of them is that the lack of THE QB has left the team underplaying its potential. If TT becomes THE guy Whaley will be seen as brilliant.

Well, Rex will at any rate.

[DrDawkinstein]

Well, Rex will at any rate.

 

LOL, In a well-functioning organization, all personnel decisions are made with the HC's input. But the final say and responsibility will always be the GM's.

 

As Pegula, Whaley, and Rex all said in Rex's introductory PC, "Whaley is in charge of the roster, Rex is in charge of the game day lineup".

[LeGOATski]

Well, Rex will at any rate.

Still be better than what Nix acquired for QBs. Fitz and EJ.

 

Makes a vote for Whaley even easier.

[FireChan]

 

LOL, In a well-functioning organization, all personnel decisions are made with the HC's input. But the final say and responsibility will always be the GM's.

 

As Pegula, Whaley, and Rex all said in Rex's introductory PC, "Whaley is in charge of the roster, Rex is in charge of the game day lineup".

You're welcome to give Whaley credit for a QB Rex openly recruited and has wanted since NY. I won't be.

Still be better than what Nix acquired for QBs. Fitz and EJ.

 

Makes a vote for Whaley even easier.

That doesn't make sense, as Whaley "acquired" Cassel and EJ.

[LeGOATski]

You're welcome to give Whaley credit for a QB Rex openly recruited and has wanted since NY. I won't be.

That doesn't make sense, as Whaley "acquired" Cassel and EJ.

You said the GMs get credit for the players under their tenure. EJ was drafted by Nix.

 

Either way, in the context of BuffaloBill's point, Whaley acquired a franchise QB and Nix didn't.

 

And if Tyrod turns out to be that guy, that means the Bills probably got the playoffs, which means Whaley got to the playoffs and Nix didn't.

 

Game over. At that point, this poll would be even more lopsided.

[JohnC]

Why would Whaley strenuously object to the Rex Hire? A defensive minded HC who has had past success?

 

When we are talking about RR getting hired we need to pair that up with who was actually available.....

 

Maybe Whaley went along with it? Maybe he actually endorsed it?

 

Its year 1 and some folks.....THEY MIGHT NOT BE WRONG

When Rex was hired I felt that it was a weird hiring. They hired someone who finished his tenure with the Jets with a four win season. They hired someone who after six or seven years had a losing record. What was the appeal?

 

But regardless of his previous record you hope that he will help the team that was moving forward continue to move in the right direction. The GM focused his attention in the offseason addreassing the offense with the expectation that the highly ranked defense (with flaws) would play near its standard of the previous year.

 

Last year the Bills were talented enough to be a wildcard team. Whaley accomplished what he wanted to do with the defense. What sabotaged the team was the performance of the defense. I blame the Head Coach for that failure. The defense that performed very well under two different DCs didn't play to the level of its talent. The defense was in a state of disarray. I blame Rex for that because that was the focus of his coaching.

 

There were other alternative candidate coaches. Hue Jackson would have been a good hire. Not a sexy hire but a good hire. I would have preferred Schwartz over the bombastic Rex. I would have preferred Roman over the loquacious Rex.

 

If you want to consider the job that Rex did last year as a being good that is your judgment. In my view he was a failure. If you are satisfied with Rex then that is fine. I simply have a different standard.

[FireChan]

You said the GMs get credit for the players under their tenure. EJ was drafted by Nix.

 

Either way, in the context of BuffaloBill's point, Whaley acquired a franchise QB and Nix didn't.

 

And if Tyrod turns out to be that guy, that means the Bills probably got the playoffs, which means Whaley got to the playoffs and Nix didn't.

 

Game over. At that point, this poll would be even more lopsided.

No he wasn't, stop being stupid. Everyone knows Whaley was in the driver's seat for the 2013 draft. It's common knowledge.

Edited April 8, 2016 by FireChan

[John from Riverside]

When Rex was hired I felt that it was a weird hiring. They hired someone who finished his tenure with the Jets with a four win season. They hired someone who after six or seven years had a losing record. What was the appeal?

 

But regardless of his previous record you hope that he will help the team that was moving forward continue to move in the right direction. The GM focused his attention in the offseason addreassing the offense with the expectation that the highly ranked defense (with flaws) would play near its standard of the previous year.

 

Last year the Bills were talented enough to be a wildcard team. Whaley accomplished what he wanted to do with the defense. What sabotaged the team was the performance of the defense. I blame the Head Coach for that failure. The defense that performed very well under two different DCs didn't play to the level of its talent. The defense was in a state of disarray. I blame Rex for that because that was the focus of his coaching.

 

There were other alternative candidate coaches. Hue Jackson would have been a good hire. Not a sexy hire but a good hire. I would have preferred Schwartz over the bombastic Rex. I would have preferred Roman over the loquacious Rex.

 

If you want to consider the job that Rex did last year as a being good that is your judgment. In my view he was a failure. If you are satisfied with Rex then that is fine. I simply have a different standard.

I dont consider it good

 

but I also recognize that it was year 1

No he wasn't, stop being stupid. Everyone knows Whaley was in the driver's seat for the 2013 draft. It's common knowledge.

I dont understand why people have a hard time with the fact Whaley drafted EJ

 

He did it

 

There were reasons why he did it

 

It didnt work out

 

You lump that draft choice into the other work that Whaley has done.......which has mostly been very good

 

There is no reason to hide it

[FireChan]

I dont consider it good

 

but I also recognize that it was year 1

I dont understand why people have a hard time with the fact Whaley drafted EJ

 

He did it

 

There were reasons why he did it

 

It didnt work out

 

You lump that draft choice into the other work that Whaley has done.......which has mostly been very good

 

There is no reason to hide it

You're telling me.