Nix vs. Whaley, the final showdown

[FireChan]

Now, I want to put to bed this misconception that Nix was a bumbling fool that Whaley had to overcome. Here's a compilation of their greatest hits, acquired and drafted players.

Buddy:
Dareus
AW
Searcy
Gilmore
Glenn
Bradham
Carrington
Spiller
Mario
Fitzy

Whaley:
Woods
McCoy
SWAT
Darby
Karlos
Incognito and Taylor (I put these more with Rex, TBH)
Seantrel
Hughes
Clay

Who did better? I think I'm taking Nix.

Edited April 7, 2016 by FireChan

[boyst]

You must include Fitz for Buddy. Like it or not that was a major plus

Also need to consider brown for dougie. And the whole kiko thing.

 

Nix gets credit for moats, wood and not keeping the OG who went to Tennessee. Also urbik.

Oh. And consider who Whaley has brought in to try to play qb and backup qb. Not that nix did any better but me thinks he was hamstrung some by other factors

[chris heff]

How is it the "final showdown"? The book is not closed on Whaley.

[machine gun kelly]

Chan- thanks for taking the time to do the homework on this one. I have stated often in passing in threads Nix did a good job here in Buffalo. why beyond the facts above, yes, he missed on some pics and yes hindsight says we should have taken a QB like Dalton or Wilson, but overall we had the least talented team in the NFL prior to Nix. He knew this and his ratioanale was we are going to provide better lines, and talent so our QB doesn't get killed. It was a mistake, but he hit more than he missed, and several people were saying back then "we finally have a real football GM in the position". Many folks seem to forget the choclate mess created by Donahoe, Levy, and Brandon. You can argue in the beginning Donahoe had to clean up the cap hell from Butler, but he royally screwed up this team.

 

Donahoe's problem is he was arrogant and thought he was the smartest guy in the room picking McGahee in the first round as an example. Nix had to get us out of talent hell. He brought us along, and Whaley took us farther. we now for the last couple of years have a very talented team. Maybe noth e best, but talented. We desperately need a QB, and I believe the hope is when DC's in the league have an off season to watch TT, can he release faster, throw better over the middle, and see the whole field. If so, we pay him the big money at the end of the year. To me, the partial solution is to give an extra million to TT say thank you for last year and keep him motivated to get the big payday.

 

So my bottom line is both Nix and Whaley have helped this team, and if you play the percentages of a decent GM, they both have decent records. Look at some of the busts from the Giants, Steelers, Patriots these last few years. No one hits on everything.

 

I still contend it was a Brandon decision with the Pegulas blessing for Rex as he filled seats, and was a big name. If Whaley had autonomy, I'm speculating he would have gone with Todd Haley, or Dan Quinn. That's only my opinion as i have nothing to back it up other than my observations of Whaley and Rex's relationship.

[FireChan]

You must include Fitz for Buddy. Like it or not that was a major plusAlso need to consider brown for dougie. And the whole kiko thing.

Nix gets credit for moats, wood and not keeping the OG who went to Tennessee. Also urbik. Oh. And consider who Whaley has brought in to try to play qb and backup qb. Not that nix did any better but me thinks he was hamstrung some by other factors

Brown sucks. Kiko sucks (and was traded for McCoy.) Moats was a fringe guy, I almost put him, but then I'd have to put Cockrell and that's a wash. And it's greatest hits, so I'm not putting EJ or other busts.

[K-9]

There was a lot of overlap between the two. Whaley was the de facto GM after the 2011 season for all intents and purposes. The Bills organization was letting Buddy ride it out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[KD in CA]

You must include Fitz for Buddy. Like it or not that was a major plus

 

 

How would they ever have reached 6-10 without him!

[Kirby Jackson]

I don't mean to be the pee in Cheerios guy but I am abstaining. I am abstaining for the simple reason that the Bills are an extremely collaborative organization. These guys worked hand and hand. The decisions were and are made as a group. This isn't like the movie draft day or some dictatorship.

 

I realize that it is easier for us to attribute "x" player to "y" GM but it doesn't work that way. The ultimate example is when people complain about Marv "the GM." Marv did not make one single personnel decision. In fact, he slept through the entire scouting meeting leading up to the draft. He knew NOTHING about the prospects. Modrak and the scouts ran the drafts and Guy and the scouts the pro side. The exact same situation with Russ Brandon "the GM." I have sat in 2 different war rooms on draft day (4 times total) and never once saw a GM "go rogue." Position coaches fight for their guys, same goes for the scouts but at the end of the day a decision is made in the best interest of the organization.

[FireChan]

There was a lot of overlap between the two. Whaley was the de facto GM after the 2011 season for all intents and purposes. The Bills organization was letting Buddy ride it out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I thought it was 2013? New info?

 

I don't mean to be the pee in Cheerios guy but I am abstaining. I am abstaining for the simple reason that the Bills are an extremely collaborative organization. These guys worked hand and hand. The decisions were and are made as a group. This isn't like the movie draft day or some dictatorship.

 

I realize that it is easier for us to attribute "x" player to "y" GM but it doesn't work that way. The ultimate example is when people complain about Marv "the GM." Marv did not make one single personnel decision. In fact, he slept through the entire scouting meeting leading up to the draft. He knew NOTHING about the prospects. Modrak and the scouts ran the drafts and Guy and the scouts the pro side. The exact same situation with Russ Brandon "the GM." I have sat in 2 different war rooms on draft day (4 times total) and never once saw a GM "go rogue." Position coaches fight for their guys, same goes for the scouts but at the end of the day a decision is made in the best interest of the organization.

Imagine if the USA abstained in WW2. You'd be giving lukewarm takes in German. Edited April 7, 2016 by FireChan

[machine gun kelly]

KJ- good points and you are right on the collaborative approach. I'm just saying both Nix and Whaley were an upgrade from the previous three. We should have never hired Donahoe, Marv, or put Brandon in that role. I just changed to abstaining my vote due to your comments. I do think it is very revisionist history to blast Nix, when he inherited the worst team in the league, and no one wanted to come here.

[Kirby Jackson]

I thought it was 2013? New info?

 

Imagine if the USA abstained in WW2. You'd be giving lukewarm takes in German.

Well if Nix or Whaley attacks Pearl Harbor my vote will change.

 

Perfect example, the Bills tried desperately to trade up for Mark Barron. That was the guy that both Buddy and Whaley wanted. They thought he was going to be a star. They couldn't get the deal done so they settled on Gilmore. As it turns out he has been a much better player.

[K-9]

I thought it was 2013? New info?

 

Imagine if the USA abstained in WW2. You'd be giving lukewarm takes in German.

2013 was when Buddy officially stepped down and Whaley was named GM, but Whaley was spearheading all the scouting on the college level as well as running the pro personnel side of things well before that. Buddy may have been the face of the office, but Whaley was running most of the show.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Agent 91]

Chan- thanks for taking the time to do the homework on this one. I have stated often in passing in threads Nix did a good job here in Buffalo. why beyond the facts above, yes, he missed on some pics and yes hindsight says we should have taken a QB like Dalton or Wilson, but overall we had the least talented team in the NFL prior to Nix. He knew this and his ratioanale was we are going to provide better lines, and talent so our QB doesn't get killed. It was a mistake, but he hit more than he missed, and several people were saying back then "we finally have a real football GM in the position". Many folks seem to forget the choclate mess created by Donahoe, Levy, and Brandon. You can argue in the beginning Donahoe had to clean up the cap hell from Butler, but he royally screwed up this team.

 

Donahoe's problem is he was arrogant and thought he was the smartest guy in the room picking McGahee in the first round as an example. Nix had to get us out of talent hell. He brought us along, and Whaley took us farther. we now for the last couple of years have a very talented team. Maybe noth e best, but talented. We desperately need a QB, and I believe the hope is when DC's in the league have an off season to watch TT, can he release faster, throw better over the middle, and see the whole field. If so, we pay him the big money at the end of the year. To me, the partial solution is to give an extra million to TT say thank you for last year and keep him motivated to get the big payday.

 

So my bottom line is both Nix and Whaley have helped this team, and if you play the percentages of a decent GM, they both have decent records. Look at some of the busts from the Giants, Steelers, Patriots these last few years. No one hits on everything.

 

I still contend it was a Brandon decision with the Pegulas blessing for Rex as he filled seats, and was a big name. If Whaley had autonomy, I'm speculating he would have gone with Todd Haley, or Dan Quinn. That's only my opinion as i have nothing to back it up other than my observations of Whaley and Rex's relationship.

LOVE IT. EVERY SECOND OF IT

[John from Riverside]

You left a third option

 

"both GM's have done some good stuff"

 

[Acantha]

2013 was when Buddy officially stepped down and Whaley was named GM, but Whaley was spearheading all the scouting on the college level as well as running the pro personnel side of things well before that. Buddy may have been the face of the office, but Whaley was running most of the show.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Anything to back any of that up?

[machine gun kelly]

You da man Hemet. I guess you're better at saying more with less than me. At least I don't write 20 sentence paragraphs where you get a headache reading by the end.

[DrDawkinstein]

I dont see it as one vs the other, but rather that Whaley is the continuation of what Nix came in to start. Whaley (or someone like him) was part of Nix's plan from Nix's very first day.

 

Nix knew that, at 70-something, he was just here to try to get the ship off the rocks and back in the water, and then turn it over to a new Captain. And that's exactly what he did.

 

Through a concerted effort with Brandon, they removed the stigmas that surrounded the Bills with Coaching candidates and Free Agents alike. They started the process of revamping our Personnel departments and fixing our drafting.

 

The last 5 years might be our best GMing performances since Polian. The credit goes to the team of Nix & Whaley.

[FireChan]

Well if Nix or Whaley attacks Pearl Harbor my vote will change.

 

Perfect example, the Bills tried desperately to trade up for Mark Barron. That was the guy that both Buddy and Whaley wanted. They thought he was going to be a star. They couldn't get the deal done so they settled on Gilmore. As it turns out he has been a much better player.

In all seriousness, I just wanted to make a topic where we could have some discussion not about Tyrod or Rex. I realize that attributing full credit or blame in both a team game and a team exercise like team building is foolhardy.

 

All that being said, if we DID break it down by Whaley's moves vs. Buddy's, I think Buddy got better players. JMO.

[Dorkington]

Agree with Kirby

 

I kinda see Nix and Whaley as one entity.

[Kirby Jackson]

In all seriousness, I just wanted to make a topic where we could have some discussion not about Tyrod or Rex. I realize that attributing full credit or blame in both a team game and a team exercise like team building is foolhardy.

 

All that being said, if we DID break it down by Whaley's moves vs. Buddy's, I think Buddy got better players. JMO.

It really is impossible for me to separate them. With that being said I have been happy with the work that they have done. If you are asking me if the personnel department is better or worse than 10 years ago, the answer is better. This current era (including Fisher, Monos, etc...) has done a (lot) better job than the Guy/Modrak led group.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Kirby Jackson