Could Bills draft QB in 1st Round and trade Tyrod?

[Jobot]

Not a terrible idea....

 

It's the same old question, and I think with Tyrod, you have to assume an increased injury probability. If the Bills don't plan on signing him beyond next year then I'd say go a head and make the trade (assuming it's a can't refuse deal and you're in love with this qb). Exactly what that deal looks like idk. But if the Bills are planning on signing him next year at which point would be a very expensive deal, then they should do all they can to get a discount before he becomes a FA.

 

Personally I'd say stick with Tyrod and offer him the extension now before it gets too expensive after next season. But If I were Tyrod, I wouldn't consider signing an extension for a minute. If he stays healthy and can become a free agent he's going to break the bank somewhere! Even if he does miss some time he's going to be considered a proven quality qb and will still get a large contract on a team that will take a risk with him.

[Mikie2times]

Surprised at the slaughtering the OP is taking. Taylor was asked to hit timing routes, throw the deep ball, limit turnovers, and then he added his own splash of improve. He performed very well statistically and at times he did the same with the eye test within this scheme. He was never asked to throw to win, take chances, make multiple progressions. He never showed he could hit anything he wasn't staring at, consistently throw from the pocket, avoid sacks, sometimes he took as much as 7-8 seconds to just find something he could see. His height is an issue and so is his propensity to take hits.

 

This is like the opposite drama of Rex. The fan base went from no to a resounding yes with TT. This time last year very few people thought he could start, now people would refuse to trade him for a first rounder when he's in a contract year at peak value?

[26CornerBlitz]

Surprised at the slaughtering the OP is taking. Taylor was asked to hit timing routes, throw the deep ball, limit turnovers, and then he added his own splash of improve. He performed very well statistically and at times he did the same with the eye test within this scheme. He was never asked to throw to win, take chances, make multiple progressions. He never showed he could hit anything he wasn't staring at, consistently throw from the pocket, avoid sacks, sometimes he took as much as 7-8 seconds to just find something he could see. His height is an issue and so is his propensity to take hits.

 

This is like the opposite drama of Rex. The fan base went from no to a resounding yes with TT. This time last year very few people thought he could start, now people would refuse to trade him for a first rounder when he's in a contract year at peak value?

 

The OP wants to trade TT for a 3rd rounder to draft a LB and draft a QB in the 1st round at #19. That deserves "heat".

[Mikie2times]

 

The OP wants to trade TT for a 3rd rounder to draft a LB and draft a QB in the 1st round at #19. That deserves "heat".

Ok, well that's dumb, but I think Taylor could net a first. If that is the case, I don't think it's dumb.

[John from Riverside]

Surprised at the slaughtering the OP is taking. Taylor was asked to hit timing routes, throw the deep ball, limit turnovers, and then he added his own splash of improve. He performed very well statistically and at times he did the same with the eye test within this scheme. He was never asked to throw to win, take chances, make multiple progressions. He never showed he could hit anything he wasn't staring at, consistently throw from the pocket, avoid sacks, sometimes he took as much as 7-8 seconds to just find something he could see. His height is an issue and so is his propensity to take hits.

 

You are acting like limiting turnovers is a easy thing.

If your not in the huddle you have no idea what progressions he is going through, or what he is staring at, and did it occur to you that the time he gets in the pocket is because defenses were being instructed to KEEP him in the pocket (thus allowing for more time in his progressions)

 

And if you think he isnt avoiding sacks.....you need to go back and rewatch the games.....he makes PLENTY of defenders miss.

 

Propensity to take hits? I see a player with the propensity to AVOID hits. He just keeps trying to extend plays with his athletism and eventually gets tackled....usually after 1st downs.

 

This is like the opposite drama of Rex. The fan base went from no to a resounding yes with TT. This time last year very few people thought he could start, now people would refuse to trade him for a first rounder when he's in a contract year at peak value?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Ok, well that's dumb, but I think Taylor could net a first. If that is the case, I don't think it's dumb.

 

Have to agree. Why not just draft an impact linebacker in the first. You don't want to create a hole with a trade, only to then fill it with a pick.

 

You think Lynch will be better as a rookie than TT? If not, then its clear you're planning on being bad this year. Lynch probably won't even beat out EJ for the job... considering EJ has an extra year in the system. So you traded your starting QB for a backup QB and the 15-20th best linebacker in the draft. When you could keep your starting QB, and have one of the top 5 linebackers in the draft.

 

Also not really sure how Rex/Whaley would feel about drafting for a team they won't have a part of. If you did this to me as a HC, I'd pretty much expect to be fired after the 4-12 year.

[BarleyNY]

I love how we were so desperate for a decent quarterback, and now that we have one, we're so desperate to move on from him

Whaley isn't completely sold on Tyrod and neither am I. Let him play another year and meanwhile draft Lynch (if he's there) and either start him in Year two and let Tyrod walk or tag Tyrod for another year and start Lynch in 2018. IF Tyrod shows he is a franchise QB this year, then you extend him and have Lynch as #2. You are solid at QB for a while, something we haven't been able to say about the Bills since Kelly.

Yeah. I don't see a lot of support for the OP's idea of trading Tyrod, but most seem to understand that Taylor still needs to take a step forward and that a hedge at QB makes a lot of sense.

[Mikie2times]

 

Surprised at the slaughtering the OP is taking. Taylor was asked to hit timing routes, throw the deep ball, limit turnovers, and then he added his own splash of improve. He performed very well statistically and at times he did the same with the eye test within this scheme. He was never asked to throw to win, take chances, make multiple progressions. He never showed he could hit anything he wasn't staring at, consistently throw from the pocket, avoid sacks, sometimes he took as much as 7-8 seconds to just find something he could see. His height is an issue and so is his propensity to take hits.

 

You are acting like limiting turnovers is a easy thing.

If your not in the huddle you have no idea what progressions he is going through, or what he is staring at, and did it occur to you that the time he gets in the pocket is because defenses were being instructed to KEEP him in the pocket (thus allowing for more time in his progressions)

 

And if you think he isnt avoiding sacks.....you need to go back and rewatch the games.....he makes PLENTY of defenders miss.

 

Propensity to take hits? I see a player with the propensity to AVOID hits. He just keeps trying to extend plays with his athletism and eventually gets tackled....usually after 1st downs.

 

This is like the opposite drama of Rex. The fan base went from no to a resounding yes with TT. This time last year very few people thought he could start, now people would refuse to trade him for a first rounder when he's in a contract year at peak value?

 

Limiting turnovers is much easier when you never are asked to throw the ball in tight windows. Kap limited turnovers in Romans offense. Same things.....

 

I can tell what progressions he's going threw because many of the plays he's running are one read throws. Timing routes are very easy to see, you don't need to be in a huddle to see a timing route. You also don't need to be in a huddle to see what happens when the first guy he stairs at is covered. What happens is ball pat, ball pat, ball pat, sack/run/ maybe something ok if he can break lose....He doesn't know what to do when the designed play isn't there.

 

He does avoid sacks, he's one of the most elusive QB's I've ever seen, but many of those avoided sacks are happening 6+ seconds after the snap (see above)

 

I also agree he does avoid big hits and does a good job doing it. Which makes it even scarier when you think about how many times he got crushed last year.

[Prickly Pete]

 

Have to agree. Why not just draft an impact linebacker in the first. You don't want to create a hole with a trade, only to then fill it with a pick.

 

You think Lynch will be better as a rookie than TT? If not, then its clear you're planning on being bad this year. Lynch probably won't even beat out EJ for the job... considering EJ has an extra year in the system. So you traded your starting QB for a backup QB and the 15-20th best linebacker in the draft. When you could keep your starting QB, and have one of the top 5 linebackers in the draft.

 

Also not really sure how Rex/Whaley would feel about drafting for a team they won't have a part of. If you did this to me as a HC, I'd pretty much expect to be fired after the 4-12 year.

 

What if there isn't an "impact linebacker" available in the 1st? What if none of the guys you expect to be available at 19, at your positions of need, are likely to have significantly more impact than a guy you expect to be there in the 2nd round?

 

What if you think Tyrod is merely a placeholder QB, and think you can get a top flight talent at 19?

 

I don't want them to trade Tyrod, but I do want them to select a QB at 19 (if they believe in the guy). Yes, Tyrod will be pissed, but he can still start this season, and prove himself, and even be Franchised next year if he plays great. you can sort it out if he truly becomes an exceptional QB.

 

As far as Wrex is concerned, the last thing I want to see is the future sacrificed to make his job easier. If the QB is there, select him!

Edited April 7, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[John from Riverside]

 

Yeah. I don't see a lot of support for the OP's idea of trading Tyrod, but most seem to understand that Taylor still needs to take a step forward and that a hedge at QB makes a lot of sense.

Except that a QB with that first selection probably gets Rex fired.....which is why its not gonna happen.

[BarleyNY]

Except that a QB with that first selection probably gets Rex fired.....which is why its not gonna happen.

I totally disagree with that. In fact it probably buys him and Whaley time if things don't go well with Taylor. (Obviously if things go well they won't be in danger of being fired). If things don't go well they'd be able to blame it on a bad QB situation and say they finally got their QB and they're in the process of developing him. Why change coaches and throw that year of development out the window and bring in a new coach who might want his own QB? A couple of years with Lynch as the guy isn't unreasonable if the Pegulas buy into that scenario or just think it's worth a shot.

[John from Riverside]

Limiting turnovers is much easier when you never are asked to throw the ball in tight windows. Kap limited turnovers in Romans offense. Same things.....

 

Kap also didnt have the stat numbers that TT has.....if your basing everything on Kap when it comes to TT.........I dont think that is a good comparison. And even if you did that lets keep in mind that offense went to the Super Bowl.

 

I can tell what progressions he's going threw because many of the plays he's running are one read throws. Timing routes are very easy to see, you don't need to be in a huddle to see a timing route. You also don't need to be in a huddle to see what happens when the first guy he stairs at is covered. What happens is ball pat, ball pat, ball pat, sack/run/ maybe something ok if he can break lose....He doesn't know what to do when the designed play isn't there.

 

I really dont think your giving credit to the NFL defenses he is facing.....if he truly was so simple minded dont you think opposing defenses would take that away from him? Its chess out there not checkers. The guy wears a fricken shaded visor you have no idea where his eyes are even going. And a LOT of Tyrod's big plays ARE off breakdowns. What are you watching?

 

He does avoid sacks, he's one of the most elusive QB's I've ever seen, but many of those avoided sacks are happening 6+ seconds after the snap (see above)

 

Im sorry Kazoo....I have no idea of what the point here is.....are you saying that he is holding onto the ball and running after he gets away? You do realize that is one of the things that makes him dangerous.......he is the fastest QB in the league.

 

I also agree he does avoid big hits and does a good job doing it. Which makes it even scarier when you think about how many times he got crushed last year.

 

He needs to learn to step out of bounds and to slide......there is no question. I think people get a little too worked up on him getting contact.....that is stout guy for being so compact. To me that is the next step of his progression though......getting that first down and not going for the extra yards behind it.

I totally disagree with that. In fact it probably buys him and Whaley time if things don't go well with Taylor. (Obviously if things go well they won't be in danger of being fired). If things don't go well they'd be able to blame it on a bad QB situation and say they finally got their QB and they're in the process of developing him. Why change coaches and throw that year of development out the window and bring in a new coach who might want his own QB? A couple of years with Lynch as the guy isn't unreasonable if the Pegulas buy into that scenario or just think it's worth a shot.

If this team has another down year the fans will want to tar and feather everyone in that front office.......and there will be firings by El Pegula....I firmly believe that.

 

The Offense was significantly better then the year prior

The Defense was significantly worse (and the real DC is actually the HC)

 

Which way do you truly think they are gonna go with that 19th pick?

[BuffaloRebound]

If Lynch is available at #19, things are probably going to get very interesting.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

What if there isn't an "impact linebacker" available in the 1st? What if none of the guys you expect to be available at 19, at your positions of need, are likely to have significantly more impact than a guy you expect to be there in the 2nd round?

 

What if you think Tyrod is merely a placeholder QB, and think you can get a top flight talent at 19?

 

I don't want them to trade Tyrod, but I do want them to select a QB at 19 (if they believe in the guy). Yes, Tyrod will be pissed, but he can still start this season, and prove himself, and even be Franchised next year if he plays great. you can sort it out if he truly becomes an exceptional QB.

 

As far as Wrex is concerned, the last thing I want to see is the future sacrificed to make his job easier. If the QB is there, select him!

 

1 - I personally think there are several, and we'll get to grab one. Likely either Dodd, Lee, or Ragland.

2 - I don't know about TT, but i don't think you can get a top flight QB at 19

3 - Disagree on QB at 19. I'm sick of getting burned by TE's, and having slow LBs who can't cover. Need some speed and skill there.

4 - He's helping assemble the draft board. I assume that means it'll be d heavy.

If Lynch is available at #19, things are probably going to get very interesting.

 

As a team who suffered a few cap casualties this year, and probably will again next year.... TRADE DOWN!

[26CornerBlitz]

If Lynch is available at #19, things are probably going to get very interesting.

 

The LA Rams will draft him I'm guessing.

[Mikie2times]

Kap also didnt have the stat numbers that TT has.....if your basing everything on Kap when it comes to TT.........I dont think that is a good comparison. And even if you did that lets keep in mind that offense went to the Super Bowl.

 

COMP-243, ATT 416, COMP% 58.4%, YARDS 3197, TD 21, INT 8, RUSH YDS 524, RUSH TD 4

COMP-242, ATT 380, COMP% 63.7%, YARDS 3035, TD 20, INT 6, RUSH YDS 568, RUSH TD 4

Look's pretty similar to me. I also agree that Taylor can get us to the Super Bowl with an elite defense which is why I wanted him to start last year. I said as much from the moment we signed him. I just don't want to pay him 15 million+. Romans offense specializes in making QB's efficiency gods. We sink franchise money into Taylor and he busts in a normal system, what happens then? What I'm saying is exactly what happened to SF and one of ten million reasons that franchise so jacked up.

I really dont think your giving credit to the NFL defenses he is facing.....if he truly was so simple minded dont you think opposing defenses would take that away from him? Its chess out there not checkers. The guy wears a fricken shaded visor you have no idea where his eyes are even going. And a LOT of Tyrod's big plays ARE off breakdowns. What are you watching?

His eyes are going where his head is pointing, that would be my guess. I don't think he is simple minded either, he has a lot of guts and seems to have above average intelligence. Defenses gave him most the short stuff. They didn't try and take it away. No point, it wasn't hurting them. That's how he built his comp%, he is not as accurate as the stats indicate. He built his inflated YPA by being a very good deep ball thrower and yes, to your point, his ability to do some great things with broken plays. None of these characteristics in modern football have been cornerstones of guys you pay 15 million+ to at the QB position. Some guys have those traits, Wilson/Young for example, but what I'm looking for is signs that he can develop into a franchise QB. I never saw those. Those signs, for me, are throwing covered receivers open prior to the break. Hitting small windows in the intermediate passing game, specifically over the middle. Moving off reads and delivering the ball with timing and being decisive. I saw none of that in his game. I saw a very athletic guy with a heck of a deep ball partnered with Trent Edwards. That is not somebody I want us breaking the bank for.

Im sorry Kazoo....I have no idea of what the point here is.....are you saying that he is holding onto the ball and running after he gets away? You do realize that is one of the things that makes him dangerous.......he is the fastest QB in the league.

I'm saying he is indecisive, holds the ball too long, and often faces unnecessary pressure that he would not have to face had he delivered the ball with timing. What I'm saying is not an opinion, he led the league by a comfortable margin in how long it takes for him to gt rid of the ball. Which I imagine you will say is a result of his scramblin Fran ways, but the reality is those plays just make up a fraction of the data.

[John from Riverside]

 

Kap also didnt have the stat numbers that TT has.....if your basing everything on Kap when it comes to TT.........I dont think that is a good comparison. And even if you did that lets keep in mind that offense went to the Super Bowl.

 

COMP-243, ATT 416, COMP% 58.4%, YARDS 3197, TD 21, INT 8, RUSH YDS 524, RUSH TD 4

COMP-242, ATT 380, COMP% 63.7%, YARDS 3035, TD 20, INT 6, RUSH YDS 568, RUSH TD 4

Look's pretty similar to me. I also agree that Taylor can get us to the Super Bowl with an elite defense which is why I wanted him to start last year. I said as much from the moment we signed him. I just don't want to pay him 15 million+. Romans offense specializes in making QB's efficiency gods. We sink franchise money into Taylor and he busts in a normal system, what happens then? What I'm saying is exactly what happened to SF and one of ten million reasons that franchise so jacked up.

Are these numbers based off last year for both qbs? They are similar at first look. I really just dont want to worry about things we cannot control (like TT not being able to run a offense outside of Romans. Maybe what the bills are doing right now is planning on giving TT more command of the offense and see what he does before giving him that big contract....which should eliminate some concerns of him being a "System QB".....what I do know is this.....we have been so starved for decent QB play that I need to know if TT is in fact the guy......if he comes out this next year and improves on the things that were question marks in his game from last year they better get that deal done quick. Denver would probably LOVE to have Tyrod right about now.

His eyes are going where his head is pointing, that would be my guess. I don't think he is simple minded either, he has a lot of guts and seems to have above average intelligence. Defenses gave him most the short stuff. They didn't try and take it away. No point, it wasn't hurting them. That's how he built his comp%, he is not as accurate as the stats indicate. He built his inflated YPA by being a very good deep ball thrower and yes, to your point, his ability to do some great things with broken plays. None of these characteristics in modern football have been cornerstones of guys you pay 15 million+ to at the QB position. Some guys have those traits, Wilson/Young for example, but what I'm looking for is signs that he can develop into a franchise QB. I never saw those. Those signs, for me, are throwing covered receivers open prior to the break. Hitting small windows in the intermediate passing game, specifically over the middle. Moving off reads and delivering the ball with timing and being decisive. I saw none of that in his game. I saw a very athletic guy with a heck of a deep ball partnered with Trent Edwards. That is not somebody I want us breaking the bank for.

 

I think TT actually did hurt them with the short stuff they let him have. I point here is game by game you would think that a DC would scheme to bait TT into certain things if he was so predictable on the field.....it happens to other NFL QBs so why wouldnt they also do this with TT? That is what I would do if I was a DC playing a predictable QB......make him think he has a window when he really does not. My other point here is I dont think that TT's efficiency should be looked at as a negative just because the Roman was smart enough to back him up with a strong running game. Tyrod did what was asked of him. The next check mark on his bucket list should be 3rd down percentage completion which needs to be better. In the latter part of the season I saw more in the pocket over the middle throws.....TT needs to show that when you take one thing away from him.....he will hurt you with another. The fact is that he has some things were is very strong in that he can always fall back on when things are not working.....but he does need to work on consistancy. but ALL QBs will go through this regardless of their pedigree who are not named Brady, Breez, etc.

I'm saying he is indecisive, holds the ball too long, and often faces unnecessary pressure that he would not have to face had he delivered the ball with timing. What I'm saying is not an opinion, he led the league by a comfortable margin in how long it takes for him to gt rid of the ball. Which I imagine you will say is a result of his scramblin Fran ways, but the reality is those plays just make up a fraction of the data.

Another part of his game where he needs to show improvement.....but lets look at a couple of things

- This was his first starting year

- He had to share with 2 other QBs in training camp.....shoot....this guy was the underdog to boot and often got the 3rd string offense while EJ and Cassell were the front runners

- We did have some injuries to players that he needed to biuld chemistry with