Nickel Defense is the New Base Defense in the NFL

[BuffaloBill]

Bill in NYC you may not want to read this, but this is why you need to draft a CB or Safety pretty high every year.

Yep, and that's why LB's unless they are pass rush specialists are no longer taken consistently high in the draft...

[3rdand12]

I had a discussion two weeks ago on the morning drive with Papa and Ross on the Bills draft, and Ross who I respect had an interesting take (NFL Radio for guys who don't have Sirius).

 

He thought because of Rex's scheme based defense we didn't need a star up front, and don't be surprised if we go with a Safety or CB in this first round. His thought was simply the Bills defense is predicated on having a best in class secondary. If Aaron Williams comes back healthy then at a minimum we have three of the five we need with Williams, Darby, and Gilmore.

 

I've thought all along we're going DE/DT flexible person or OLB. Maybe not, It will be an interesting draft as I truly have no idea what they are going to do. One thing is for sure, we will end up playing 60% at least in nickel packages so we don't need a Spikes like thumper at ILB. We need a fast ILB who can cover TE's and big WR.

This is one of the most interesting features of bringing Rex in as a Coach. He really does depend on his secondary and at least one or two very good LBs. And Bills have this great front 4 that some us of knew he probably would not use.

Which is s shame really.

But that has been beat into the ground resurrected and then beat back into the ground ad nauseum.

A Captain at LB and Captain at the safety position, two very good corners. the rest are role players.

 

You missed Corey Graham back there. he is the smart one, not Williams, at least until Blanton shows he can take over.

Edited April 4, 2016 by 3rdand12

[Beef Jerky]

This is one of the most interesting features of bringing Rex in as a Coach. He really does depend on his secondary and at least one or two very good LBs. And Bills have this great front 4 that some us of knew he probably would not use.

Which is s shame really.

But that has been beat into the ground resurrected and then beat back into the ground ad nauseum.

A Captain at LB and Captain at the safety position, two very good corners. the rest are role players.

 

You missed Corey Graham back there. he is the smart one, not Williams, at least until Blanton shows he can take over.

 

He tried to use his front 4 but one gave up on him, his teammates, Bills fans, and the other Kyle got injured along with his backup.

[Prickly Pete]

This is one of the most interesting features of bringing Rex in as a Coach. He really does depend on his secondary and at least one or two very good LBs. And Bills have this great front 4 that some us of knew he probably would not use.

Which is s shame really.

But that has been beat into the ground resurrected and then beat back into the ground ad nauseum.

A Captain at LB and Captain at the safety position, two very good corners. the rest are role players.

 

You missed Corey Graham back there. he is the smart one, not Williams, at least until Blanton shows he can take over.

 

So now, after we know that the Front 4 isn't the feature of his defense, why do so many want them to draft D-linemen? Just because the draft is strong for linemen? Get one in the 2nd round...

Edited April 5, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[todd]

this is an interesting year a CB. And S. S there isn't much but there is a lot nod different talents. CB is deep with good but not great talent. 3 or 4 very good players there. 10-12 depth, rotational and subset players. You can find what you're looking for in a package CB in found 3-4

 

Sounds about right. I admittedly don't follow much college ball, and don't spend any time researching players, nor do I have the capability or time to break down film, so I'm usually pretty quiet about the draft. I rely on people like you to know what is going on with the draft, so thanks!

[3rdand12]

 

SO now, after we know that the Front 4 isn't the feature of his defense, why do so many want them to draft D-linemen? Just because the draft is strong for linemen? Get one in the 2nd round...

Bills do not have enough DL regardless. Might as well get one who can play multiple techs. That is what some of these 1st rounder guys can do. Flexibility up front allows to keep the sub to a minimum. Probably get a 2 down stuffer later on.

Need to load up on LBs.

 

But at 19 that is a tough call. So maybe you do just take BPA. I have been looking at guys who can disrupt AND are strong on the run. Players that can do it all reasonably well all the time.

 

You have a reasonable point

Edited April 5, 2016 by 3rdand12

[BADOLBILZ]

Defenses run the nickel roughly 2 out of 3 plays.

 

Seems like a good time to line up a power runner like KW.

 

 

Been saying we need to be ready for an RB to run up the middle for a while. We dont need a quick at the hips or scat back like Spiller. We don't need a juke and dancer. We don't even need McCoy for this role, really. We need Antowain Smith, Tim Tindale, Marshawn Lynch. These guys get to the second level with speed. These guys can take on an ILB consistently winning matchups. In a nickel defense you need to only defeat the ILB and you gain 4+ yards. You usually don't escape the SS and Nickel

 

I hope karlos Williams can keep up what he started

 

see above.

 

 

 

Of the 35 leading rushers in the NFL last year all but a handful were big, powerful backs.

 

That basically tells you that the rest of the league is using their running game to attack smaller defensive alignments like nickel/dime and smaller players in general at LB and edge rushers spots.

 

Obviously teams don't want to be caught in nickel on run downs but when that RB is a finesse back like LeSean McCoy....a smaller, quicker defense also actually helps negate big plays in the run game.

 

Combine that with McCoy's tendency to run to the sideline instead of cutting it upfield earlier and that's why the big backs not only had a much higher ypc but made 90% of the big runs and scored the majority of the rushing TD's for the Bills last year.

[3rdand12]

He tried to use his front 4 but one gave up on him, his teammates, Bills fans, and the other Kyle got injured along with his backup.

Thats another story I think Jerky.

I am just suggesting his comfort zone

Rex has rarely if Ever played the game like Jim Schwartz predicates his D upon.

That why guys were pissed i bet.

But it is not like he can line up 3 udfa players up there either.

[billsfan89]

Agreed it's a passing league so your nickel defenses are the new base defense. The fullback is now a specialty position as opposed to a base position and it has been replaced by a combo of a second tight end or a slot receiver. It use to be considered a luxury and good depth to have 3 good CB's, now you need 3 just to field a good unit while 4-5 you feel you can count on is optimal depth at that position.

[3rdand12]

 

 

 

 

 

Of the 35 leading rushers in the NFL last year all but a handful were big, powerful backs.

 

That basically tells you that the rest of the league is using their running game to attack smaller defensive alignments like nickel/dime and smaller players in general at LB and edge rushers spots.

 

Obviously teams don't want to be caught in nickel on run downs but when that RB is a finesse back like LeSean McCoy....a smaller, quicker defense also actually helps negate big plays in the run game.

 

Combine that with McCoy's tendency to run to the sideline instead of cutting it upfield earlier and that's why the big backs not only had a much higher ypc but made 90% of the big runs and scored the majority of the rushing TD's for the Bills last year.

Who would of thought you would a found a chance to get after McCoy ; )

Good thing they have Karlos.

like to see Fulton involved more too.

The O line struggled so much early season with execution and rotations on the right side it was hard to get it going. i expect more and better run game this coming year. and so should you. And shady is very good at reading the blocking when it is executed worth a damn. He does not need to pound it. Thats why you have a stable of horses

Agreed it's a passing league so your nickel defenses are the new base defense. The fullback is now a specialty position as opposed to a base position and it has been replaced by a combo of a second tight end or a slot receiver. It use to be considered a luxury and good depth to have 3 good CB's, now you need 3 just to field a good unit while 4-5 you feel you can count on is optimal depth at that position.

I think the safety position is the one that is becoming more valuable honestly. and guys that can move either between CB and safety or safety and LB. The crossfunction is the way of the game

[K-9]

"43's the mike! 43's the mike!"

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

"43's the mike! 43's the mike!"

 

GO BILLS!!!

where is Bryan Scott when we need him !

[boyst]

 

 

 

 

 

Of the 35 leading rushers in the NFL last year all but a handful were big, powerful backs.

 

That basically tells you that the rest of the league is using their running game to attack smaller defensive alignments like nickel/dime and smaller players in general at LB and edge rushers spots.

 

Obviously teams don't want to be caught in nickel on run downs but when that RB is a finesse back like LeSean McCoy....a smaller, quicker defense also actually helps negate big plays in the run game.

 

Combine that with McCoy's tendency to run to the sideline instead of cutting it upfield earlier and that's why the big backs not only had a much higher ypc but made 90% of the big runs and scored the majority of the rushing TD's for the Bills last year.

there are big bruising backs, very few of them... blount is not really one but in todays league he is...

but we have quick backs who can juke and such, but we also have those that are built to take hits and bounce off of them like karlos. those are the backs we need.

[Prickly Pete]

Bills do not have enough DL regardless. Might as well get one who can play multiple techs. That is what some of these 1st rounder guys can do. Flexibility up front allows to keep the sub to a minimum. Probably get a 2 down stuffer later on.

Need to load up on LBs.

 

But at 19 that is a tough call. So maybe you do just take BPA. I have been looking at guys who can disrupt AND are strong on the run. Players that can do it all reasonably well all the time.

 

You have a reasonable point

 

I don't think they need a 1st rd D-lineman, I don't think there is value at WR, S, or ILB (the positions where I think a exceptional player would make the most impact on this Bills team), so I think this might be the draft to use the 1st pick on...a QB.

 

If one of the top prospects is available, but the Bills pass on him, and he goes on to be pretty good, it will be the old "coulda, shoulda".

Edited April 5, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[Rockinon]

there are big bruising backs, very few of them... blount is not really one but in todays league he is...

but we have quick backs who can juke and such, but we also have those that are built to take hits and bounce off of them like karlos. those are the backs we need.

Add in the fact that our offensive coordinator likes to put additional big bodies on the line, and the run game becomes more dangerous. Some of the run plays drawn up last year were truly amazing. These smaller defensive fronts are clearly having a hard time containing these blocking schemes. We had more blockers in many cases because teams were worried about the pass.

[3rdand12]

 

I don't think they need a 1st rd D-lineman, I don't think there is value at WR, S, or ILB (the positions where I think a exceptional player would make the most impact on this Bills team), so I think this might be the draft to use the 1st pick on...a QB.

 

If one of the top prospects is available, but the Bills pass on him, and he goes on to be pretty good, it will be the old "coulda, shoulda".

lets not go there.

 

too soon

They will take bpa in the first. if it is a qb so be it

Add in the fact that our offensive coordinator likes to put additional big bodies on the line, and the run game becomes more dangerous. Some of the run plays drawn up last year were truly amazing. These smaller defensive fronts are clearly having a hard time containing these blocking schemes. We had more blockers in many cases because teams were worried about the pass.

I was delighted when i saw CK in motion and the actually knocking some snot next to Miller upfield

[Marty McFly]

im not surprised by this at all. The league is pass happy now making DBs even more valuable. In the 90s you could get away with 2 solid CBs and 2 solid Safteys, now you need a shut down corner and 2 solid CBs that can cover the slot with at least 3 solid starting Safteys. I see us drafting a DB in the 1st 4 rounds but not the 1st. Even in the newer maddens the CPU plays pass happy (minus the seahawks) I find myself using 4-3 or 3-4 on 1st then nickle or dime on 2nd 3rd n 4th.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Marty McFly

[Prickly Pete]

lets not go there.

 

too soon

They will take bpa in the first. if it is a qb so be it

I was delighted when i saw CK in motion and the actually knocking some snot next to Miller upfield

 

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. I obviously don't want them to reach, but if a QB prospect they believe in is there, I really hope they select him. I like Tyrod, but you gotta pull the trigger when you have the opportunity.

[Marty McFly]

Thus the rise of the hybrid LB/S. That's as important a player as the slot WR and both are effectively starters due to the ever increasing use of the Nickel package these days.

Agree.

I had a discussion two weeks ago on the morning drive with Papa and Ross on the Bills draft, and Ross who I respect had an interesting take (NFL Radio for guys who don't have Sirius).

 

He thought because of Rex's scheme based defense we didn't need a star up front, and don't be surprised if we go with a Safety or CB in this first round. His thought was simply the Bills defense is predicated on having a best in class secondary. If Aaron Williams comes back healthy then at a minimum we have three of the five we need with Williams, Darby, and Gilmore.

 

I've thought all along we're going DE/DT flexible person or OLB. Maybe not, It will be an interesting draft as I truly have no idea what they are going to do. One thing is for sure, we will end up playing 60% at least in nickel packages so we don't need a Spikes like thumper at ILB. We need a fast ILB who can cover TE's and big WR.

I want to see the best ILB drafted in the 1st since the Dline is so deep in the draft, and a TRUE Saftey in the 3rd or 4th round, still pick up a CB wit the 2nd 4th pick. Rex paired with Whaley are great at scouting CBs I mean we drafted Darby last year and none of us knew how good he would be, most of us were pissed we didnt take a QB or OL, im sure theyll find another gem at DB this draft 2.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Marty McFly

[Marty McFly]

there are big bruising backs, very few of them... blount is not really one but in todays league he is...

but we have quick backs who can juke and such, but we also have those that are built to take hits and bounce off of them like karlos. those are the backs we need.

Agreed but Karlos got injured twice last season taking hits, I hope he doesnt get CTE or injury prone cuz he wont last as a bruiser RB.

 

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. I obviously don't want them to reach, but if a QB prospect they believe in is there, I really hope they select him. I like Tyrod, but you gotta pull the trigger when you have the opportunity.

If it isnt Wentz I dont think any other QB is worth it at pick #19. Go defense. A very underrated Vernon Adams jr would be a good signing in the 5th or 6th round, he might even go un-drafted because of his size but, hes very Russel Wilson-like with dead on accuracy, whatever team he ends up on I see him starting in a few years.