The Panama Papers

[B-Man]

Jack Shafer ‏@jackshafer 3h3 hours ago (Politico staff)

That the Panama Papers aren't on Page1 of the NYT, WP, or WSJ today illustrates journalism's "not found here" principle.

 

personally, I think that they can't make a big deal out of it until they're sure Clintons aren't involved............

[DC Tom]

 

 

personally, I think that they can't make a big deal out of it until they're sure Clintons aren't involved............

 

 

Personally, I think it's probably not that big a deal.

[B-Man]

 

Personally, I think it's probably not that big a deal.

 

 

Maybe not in the long view of things.

 

But since this..........Email server hack behind Panamanian law firm leaks http://www.scmagazineuk.com/email-server-hack-behind-panamanian-law-firm-leaks/article/487251/

 

is how it occurred

 

perhaps someone could ask Democrat Party Leader Hillary Clinton what she thinks of it ?

[Deranged Rhino]

Why are you surprised that the USA wasn't shaded?

 

As an aside, do you advocate that governments be more vigilant about policing international money transfers?

 

Only 150 documents of over 11 million have been released. There are reportedly over 3,000 Americans and American companies on the list that will be forthcoming per WikiLeaks.

Who cares. This is nothing more than: "Be t3h OUTRAGE!!!11!one!!11!!! about wealthy individuals taxes!!!"

 

The only thing remotely interesting about this story is the fact that, predictably, wealthy individuals living in places with VATs and very high progressive tax rates actively pull their money out of those economies.

 

This is a pretty shallow view of the story. I would think there are plenty of citizens in the UK, Saudi Arabia, Iceland, Turkey, China and other such countries who are rightfully outraged about having their national treasuries pilfered by their own leaders. And we haven't even gotten to the Americans wrapped up in this yet.

 

The majority of what off shore bankers do is legal. That's not in dispute. But that's also not what this story is about.

Here's a quick explanation as to why this is an issue -- or rather one issue of many:

 

******

 

More: Panama Papers are super awkward for Beijing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/04/the-panama-papers-are-super-awkward-for-beijing/?tid=sm_tw

 

More: China censors Panama Papers discussions

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35957235

 

More: David Cameron's father and top torries named in leak

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-camerons-dad-top-tories-7684150

 

More: Panama Papers are a crime, privacy is a basic human right ( -- from Sky News of course. ha! Corporations spying on people fine. People spying on corporations is a felony. The schadefreude is thick here)

http://news.sky.com/story/1672161/panama-papers-leak-is-a-crime-says-law-firm

 

More: Iceland's PM had stake in failed banks

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/iceland-prime-minister-bank-panama-papers_us_5701980fe4b083f5c607f96c

 

More: How Mossack Fonseca helped hide millions in gold from the UK's biggest theft

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/04/brinks-mat-how-mossack-fonseca-helped-hide-millions

 

Personally, I think it's probably not that big a deal.

 

One of the theories being floated around by my more tin foil hat minded friends is that this is straight from Langley's playbook considering the names mentioned in the first round of leaks were all the BRICS nations, plus the traditional western foes, and Iceland the only nation that prosecuted bankers for the financial collapse.

 

I don't buy that -- but I see why people are making that assumption based on the sliver of information that's been released thus far.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[TakeYouToTasker]

First of all, if you think that this is anywhere near the top of the list of what people living in Saudi Arabia are "rightfully outraged" over then I don't know what to tell you. The truth is that dictators do this sort of thing. They always have, and always will. It's just one more thing that sucks about living in a ****ty third world country.

 

As for the Western nations of associated persons having their "treasuries pilfered", that's a load. The largest "scandal" emerging is in Iceland, where the Prime Minister didn't sell a personal business he promised to sell when he was elected.

 

No, Gregg, I will not be t3h OUTRAGED!!!!11!!1!!eleventy-one1!!

 

And you shouldn't be either.

[Deranged Rhino]

First of all, if you think that this is anywhere near the top of the list of what people living in Saudi Arabia are "rightfully outraged" over then I don't know what to tell you.

 

You're right, it's not at the top of their list of things to be mad about, but I didn't say that it was. All I'm saying is that this story covers a lot of nefarious and illegal dealings, done so on behalf of powerful men, women, and corporations and at the expense of law abiding tax payers all over the globe. In your viewpoint these people are simply taking advantage of the opportunities their wealth provided them, but that's not the story. The story is the criminal elements that are enabled by shops like this.

 

And that's not even getting into the fact that off shore companies like this help finance terrorism, war, famine, and exploitation around the world -- making the world a more dangerous and worse place for everyone, regardless of their feelings on tax havens and off shore bankers.

 

And let's not forget, we're only looking at ONE company of literally HUNDREDS who do this kind of work. And we're only talking about 150 documents out of over 11 million. This story has a lot of legs left, you might want to consider withholding judgement until it's all out.

[Tiberius]

http://time.com/4280864/panama-papers-capitalism/

 

It’s hard to know where to start in tallying up the explosive revelations in the Panama Papers, an analysis of leaked documents from global law firm Mossack Fonseca revealed by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ). Yes, we’ve known for a while now that the shadow financial system was growing. But it’s another thing to take in 11.5 million documents showing the way in which Mossack Fonseca was working with big name financial groups like UBS, HSBC, Société Générale, and many others to help elites from the Communist Party leadership of China, to soccer star Lionel Messi, to global financiers hide cash in offshore havens around the world.

 

Bet Mitt Romney's name turns up, lol. Just kidding

[DC Tom]

 

Only 150 documents of over 11 million have been released. There are reportedly over 3,000 Americans and American companies on the list that will be forthcoming per WikiLeaks.

 

This is a pretty shallow view of the story. I would think there are plenty of citizens in the UK, Saudi Arabia, Iceland, Turkey, China and other such countries who are rightfully outraged about having their national treasuries pilfered by their own leaders. And we haven't even gotten to the Americans wrapped up in this yet.

 

 

Think about that...

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

You're right, it's not at the top of their list of things to be mad about, but I didn't say that it was. All I'm saying is that this story covers a lot of nefarious and illegal dealings, done so on behalf of powerful men, women, and corporations and at the expense of law abiding tax payers all over the globe. In your viewpoint these people are simply taking advantage of the opportunities their wealth provided them, but that's not the story. The story is the criminal elements that are enabled by shops like this.

 

And that's not even getting into the fact that off shore companies like this help finance terrorism, war, famine, and exploitation around the world -- making the world a more dangerous and worse place for everyone, regardless of their feelings on tax havens and off shore bankers.

 

And let's not forget, we're only looking at ONE company of literally HUNDREDS who do this kind of work. And we're only talking about 150 documents out of over 11 million. This story has a lot of legs left, you might want to consider withholding judgement until it's all out.

This is what humans have been doing our entire history.

 

I'm not going to get upset about humans being humans.

[GG]

 

You're right, it's not at the top of their list of things to be mad about, but I didn't say that it was. All I'm saying is that this story covers a lot of nefarious and illegal dealings, done so on behalf of powerful men, women, and corporations and at the expense of law abiding tax payers all over the globe. In your viewpoint these people are simply taking advantage of the opportunities their wealth provided them, but that's not the story. The story is the criminal elements that are enabled by shops like this.

 

And that's not even getting into the fact that off shore companies like this help finance terrorism, war, famine, and exploitation around the world -- making the world a more dangerous and worse place for everyone, regardless of their feelings on tax havens and off shore bankers.

 

And let's not forget, we're only looking at ONE company of literally HUNDREDS who do this kind of work. And we're only talking about 150 documents out of over 11 million. This story has a lot of legs left, you might want to consider withholding judgement until it's all out.

 

Answer the other question. Do you think that governments should be more vigilant about policing international money transfers?

[B-Man]

Perhaps U.S. media will increase............

 

Editor of Süddeutsche Zeitung responded to the lack of U.S. individuals in the documents, saying "Just wait for what is coming next"

 

 

Trump ?

 

Clinton ?

[DC Tom]

Perhaps U.S. media will increase............

 

Editor of Süddeutsche Zeitung responded to the lack of U.S. individuals in the documents, saying "Just wait for what is coming next"

 

 

Trump ?

 

Clinton ?

 

Bush, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, anyone associated with Carlyle group. Oil executives. International financiers (e.g. Soros). Executives at major studios (Disney, Sony, etc.)

 

Just think: who would have international finance concerns that require an international law firm? They'll be in the list.

[Deranged Rhino]

Sanders talking about Panama and TPP in 2011:

 

 

This is what humans have been doing our entire history.

 

I'm not going to get upset about humans being humans.

 

I genuinely don't know how to respond to that, and I don't mean that in a snarky way. I'm not shocked by any of this, nor do I think it's novel. I'm not even arguing anything in particular about this story, just relaying the breaking news bits I've found interesting. There's a lot of smoke in this stuff, but definitely some fire. I think we both agree that while humans have been raping and pillaging since time immemorial we shouldn't help the process by turning a blind eye to things like financing pedophile rings, narcotics smuggling, or international terrorism.

 

 

Answer the other question. Do you think that governments should be more vigilant about policing international money transfers?

 

I don't think the issue here is that governments aren't aware of these types of off shore shenanigans. I'm quite certain they're monitored quite closely in the fight against terrorism. The issue is if/why they turn a blind eye to the more nefarious elements of off shore world.

 

I do think we have some responsibility as a nation to make financial fraud, or financing illegal activities like terrorism, pedophile rings, narcotics, arms dealing more difficult wherever possible. There's a lot of gray space in this discussion, but on those matters I'm pretty sure we're in agreement.

 

 

Bush, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, anyone associated with Carlyle group. Oil executives. International financiers (e.g. Soros). Executives at major studios (Disney, Sony, etc.)

 

Just think: who would have international finance concerns that require an international law firm? They'll be in the list.

 

Just based on Jackie Chan being included, and considering he's a CAA client (who are very helpful with their clients' finances), I'm guessing there will be a lot of big names in hollywood and sports popping up.

[unbillievable]

I guess we're supposed to be outraged because people are trying to keep the government from confiscating more of their money. Like they don't have a right to their wealth or something....

 

Pay your fair share so I can get more free $%#@!

[Deranged Rhino]

I guess we're supposed to be outraged because people are trying to keep the government from confiscating more of their money. Like they don't have a right to their wealth or something....

 

Pay your fair share so I can get more free $%#@!

 

If that's what you're taking from the story, you're missing the point. Yes, that's a spin that the left will use, but it's just as short sighted as turning a blind eye to it completely.

***********

More: British Banker set up firm used by North Korea to sell weapons

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/04/panama-papers-briton-set-up-firm-allegedly-used-by-north-korea-weapons-sales

More: Icelanders Protest PM refusing to step down

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-04/iceland-pm-faces-no-confidence-vote-after-offshore-disclosure

More:

Mossack Fonseca 'helped firms subject to sanctions'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-35959604

[GG]

I genuinely don't know how to respond to that, and I don't mean that in a snarky way. I'm not shocked by any of this, nor do I think it's novel. I'm not even arguing anything in particular about this story, just relaying the breaking news bits I've found interesting. There's a lot of smoke in this stuff, but definitely some fire. I think we both agree that while humans have been raping and pillaging since time immemorial we shouldn't help the process by turning a blind eye to things like financing pedophile rings, narcotics smuggling, or international terrorism.

 

 

I don't think the issue here is that governments aren't aware of these types of off shore shenanigans. I'm quite certain they're monitored quite closely in the fight against terrorism. The issue is if/why they turn a blind eye to the more nefarious elements of off shore world.

 

I do think we have some responsibility as a nation to make financial fraud, or financing illegal activities like terrorism, pedophile rings, narcotics, arms dealing more difficult wherever possible. There's a lot of gray space in this discussion, but on those matters I'm pretty sure we're in agreement.

 

 

It's all one in the same.

 

Are you ok with deputizing private companies to disclose clients' detailed private information to government officials without a subpoena or warrant?

[B-Man]

Six things to know about the Panama Papers

Deutsche Welle, by Dagmar Breitenbach

 

Original Article

[Magox]

Unfortunately, no one will try to actually address this with any sort of meaningful reforms. Special interests and overzealous idealistic constituencies make things almost impossible for politicians to actually tackle problems. So what do we get? The left pushes for overly intrusive regulations and punitive taxation measures and the right will turn a blind eye. In other words, nothing gets done. Rinse and repeat.

[B-Man]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Senator Sanders sends out a press release regarding the Panama papers. Speech he made in 2011

 

As Clinton pushed Panama deal amid warnings, Sanders opposed it citing tax haven/secrecy http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-speech-by-sen-bernie-sanders-on-unfettered-free-trade …

 

 

 

Click on to enlarge

Edited April 5, 2016 by B-Man

[Deranged Rhino]

This is an angle I hit on yesterday but it's slowly gaining momentum on the fringes of the story. The theory essentially is we're witnessing the evolution of a new kind of warfare, a mix of cyber and information designed to blackmail and keep enemies of the state department in line with "veiled" threats. Take it for what it's worth...

 

Selective leak of the Panama Papers create huge blackmail potential. "Smear the people the U.S. dislikes":

 

But the current heavily promoted “leak”of such data to several NATO supporting news organization and a US government financed “Non Government Organization” is just a lame attempt to smear some people the U.S. empire dislikes. It also creates a huge blackmail opportunity by NOT publishing certain data in return for this or that desired favor.

 

(snip)

 

Essentially the SudDeutsche compiled a list of known criminals and people and organizations the U.S. dislikes and cross checked them with the “leaked” database. Selected hits were then further evaluated. The outcome are stories like the annual attempt to smear the Russian president Putin, who is not even mentioned in the Mossak Fonseca data, accusations against various people of the soccer association FIFA, much disliked by the U.S., and a few mentions of other miscreants of minor relevancy.

There is no story about any U.S. person, none at all, nor about any important NATO politician. The highest political “casualty” so far is the irrelevant Prime Minister of Iceland Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson who, together with his wife, owned one of the shell companies. There is no evidence that the ownership or the money held by that company were illegal.

So where is the beef?

As former UK ambassador Craig Murray writes, the beef (if there is any at all) is in what is hidden by the organizations that manage the “leak”:

The filtering of this Mossack Fonseca information by the corporate media

follows a direct western governmental agenda

. There is no mention at all of use of Mossack Fonseca by massive western corporations or western billionaires – the main customers. And the Guardian is quick to reassure that “much of the leaked material will remain private.”What do you expect? The leak is being managed by the grandly but laughably named “International Consortium of Investigative Journalists”, which is funded and organised entirely by the USA’s Center for Public Integrity. Their funders include

Ford Foundation

Carnegie Endowment

Rockefeller Family Fund

W K Kellogg Foundation

Open Society Foundation (Soros)

The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) is part of the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) which is financed by the U.S. government through USAID.

The “leak” is of data selected by U.S. friendly organization out of a database, likely obtained by U.S. secret services, which can be assumed to include much dirt about “western” persons and organizations.

To only publish very selected data from the “leaked” data has two purposes:

• It smears various “enemies of the empire” even if only by association like the presidents Putin and Assad.
• It lets other important people, those mentioned in the database but not yet published about, know that the U.S. or its “media partner” can, at any time, expose their dirty laundry to the public. It is thereby a perfect blackmailing instrument.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/selective-leaks-of-the-panama-papers-create-huge-blackmail-potential-smear-people-the-u-s-dislikes/5518635

 

It's all one in the same.

 

Are you ok with deputizing private companies to disclose clients' detailed private information to government officials without a subpoena or warrant?

 

Considering my long standing take on the battle to protect privacy and encryption, no. This is the new normal we live in, a place where big data dumps have replaced actual journalism because the media has sold out / been bought out by the corporate interests running the western world. The only way to break through the barrier often times is to leak files, which doesn't excuse it but also doesn't mean we should ignore the information that comes from such leaks.

 

If the government and corporations can have no compunction about spying on American citizens and its customers, then corporations and governments shouldn't get to play the victim card when the tables are turned.

 

This is just the beginning of this kind of story. Especially if the above link is even close to accurate, expect China and Russia to repay the west in kind with a data leak of their own. They're sitting on enough information to cause some heart palpitations for quite a few big names after the massive government data breach(es) of the past few years.

 

Unfortunately, no one will try to actually address this with any sort of meaningful reforms. Special interests and overzealous idealistic constituencies make things almost impossible for politicians to actually tackle problems. So what do we get? The left pushes for overly intrusive regulations and punitive taxation measures and the right will turn a blind eye. In other words, nothing gets done. Rinse and repeat.

 

Which is what happens when you allow the system to be bought and paid for by the folks benefiting the most from the dark world of tax havens and off shore banking in the first place.