26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 What ever happened to the shutdown corner?Deion Sanders was the original "shutdown corner" -- something that no longer exists, according to Bucky Brooks. Who are the top five CBs in 2016? The list includes Josh Norman and Marcus Peters.
thebandit27 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 What ever happened to the shutdown corner? As many of us have been saying, there's no such thing as a true shutdown corner anymore. I have to wonder how a guy like Peters--who allowed over 900 yards and 8 TDs to receivers last year--gets anointed on the list? By comparison, Ron Darby allowed 660 yards and 4 TDs, yet he's not even mentioned.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2016 Author Posted March 31, 2016 As many of us have been saying, there's no such thing as a true shutdown corner anymore. I have to wonder how a guy like Peters--who allowed over 900 yards and 8 TDs to receivers last year--gets anointed on the list? By comparison, Ron Darby allowed 660 yards and 4 TDs, yet he's not even mentioned. Rule changes have almost legislated them out of the game. I have no doubt that Darby and Gilmore for that matter would appear on the lists of other analysts.
Haplo848 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I don't have arguments about the other four, but Marcus Peters should not have been included in this list. He's incredibly overrated. Sure, he had some splash plays, but he also gives up big plays fairly often. I can't think of a single game where he actually shut down a good WR. Watkins owned him 1v1, and only started having problems in the Chiefs game when they started rolling all their coverage towards him. I truly believe that there are two better corners than Peters on the Bills alone.
Mr. WEO Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Rule changes have almost legislated them out of the game. I have no doubt that Darby and Gilmore for that matter would appear on the lists of other analysts. Not really. If Sanders was the original shut down CB, he did it without hardly ever touching a WR. He was famously averse to physical play and tackling. He was a great athlete. Nowadays, the WRs have surpassed the CBs in a combination of size and athleticism.
Nanker Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I think they all starved to death on Revis Island while awaiting rescue.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2016 Author Posted March 31, 2016 Not really. If Sanders was the original shut down CB, he did it without hardly ever touching a WR. He was famously averse to physical play and tackling. He was a great athlete. Nowadays, the WRs have surpassed the CBs in a combination of size and athleticism. I don't necessarily agree with you as there are plenty of great athletes playing corner. DBs can barely touch a WR these days w/o getting flagged for Holding, Illegal Contact, DPI, or Defenseless Receiver infractions.
Mr. WEO Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 I don't necessarily agree with you as there are plenty of great athletes playing corner. DBs can barely touch a WR these days w/o getting flagged for Holding, Illegal Contact, DPI, or Defenseless Receiver infractions. An often repeated myth. In the entire regular season, there were a total of 59 illegal contact penalties called and 232 PIs called in 256 games. The math tells you that's less than 1 of each called per games with teams throwing an average of about 30 times a game. Deion Sanders had 467 penalties called on him in his career. Revis has only had 213......
26CornerBlitz Posted April 1, 2016 Author Posted April 1, 2016 An often repeated myth. In the entire regular season, there were a total of 59 illegal contact penalties called and 232 PIs called in 256 games. The math tells you that's less than 1 of each called per games with teams throwing an average of about 30 times a game. Deion Sanders had 467 penalties called on him in his career. Revis has only had 213...... What about the defensive holding numbers on DBs? Where are those infractions in your numbers? Secondary players simply are not allowed to play aggressively as they were in the past.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 You can't breathe on Wrs or it's a penalty. That's what happened to shutdown cbs. It's so laughable that some fans act like a CB can't give up a completion here or there. Corner is the most physically challenging position in all of football. If Gilmore was playing in the 80s or 90s, he might be the best CB in the NFL.
thebandit27 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 An often repeated myth. In the entire regular season, there were a total of 59 illegal contact penalties called and 232 PIs called in 256 games. The math tells you that's less than 1 of each called per games with teams throwing an average of about 30 times a game. Deion Sanders had 467 penalties called on him in his career. Revis has only had 213...... There were 243 DPI calls last year There were also 228 defensive holding calls I'll have to take your word on illegal contact since this site doesn't list them (http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2015) That's a total of 530 fouls (not including defenseless receiver calls) in 267 games, or almost exactly 2 per game.
Mr. WEO Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 What about the defensive holding numbers on DBs? Where are those infractions in your numbers? Secondary players simply are not allowed to play aggressively as they were in the past. DH wasn't teased out by position...could be LBs to, but the total was 381 for the season. You can't breathe on Wrs or it's a penalty. That's what happened to shutdown cbs. It's so laughable that some fans act like a CB can't give up a completion here or there. Corner is the most physically challenging position in all of football. If Gilmore was playing in the 80s or 90s, he might be the best CB in the NFL. Simply untrue. See above.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 1, 2016 Author Posted April 1, 2016 There were 243 DPI calls last year There were also 228 defensive holding calls I'll have to take your word on illegal contact since this site doesn't list them (http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2015) That's a total of 530 fouls (not including defenseless receiver calls) in 267 games, or almost exactly 2 per game. That was my point regardless of the penalty numbers. The nature of how DBs play in the NFL has been fundamentally altered with much less aggressive play allowed.
Mr. WEO Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 There were 243 DPI calls last year There were also 228 defensive holding calls I'll have to take your word on illegal contact since this site doesn't list them (http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2015) That's a total of 530 fouls (not including defenseless receiver calls) in 267 games, or almost exactly 2 per game. Yeah, that's not evidence to support the "DB's can't even breath on the WRs" argument, is it... That was my point regardless of the penalty numbers. The nature of how DBs play in the NFL has been fundamentally altered with much less aggressive play allowed. Did the massive amount of penalties Deion accumulated change the way he played? No.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 1, 2016 Author Posted April 1, 2016 Yeah, that's not evidence to support the "DB's can't even breath on the WRs" argument, is it... Did the massive amount of penalties Deion accumulated change the way he played? No. Who cares? What year is this?!?
Mr. WEO Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Who cares? What year is this?!? In 2016, "You can't breathe on Wrs or it's a penalty" is a false statement, no matter how many times repeated.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 In 2016, "You can't breathe on Wrs or it's a penalty" is a false statement, no matter how many times repeated. Because they have to completely alternate how they play! You just argue for the sake of arguing. If you honestly think guys are playing defensive back the same way today as they were in the 90s and decades before that, you are blind. There's a reason a guy like Matt Stafford has more 5,000 yard seasons than Dan Marino and it's not skill. The league has been completely altered.
Mr. WEO Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Because they have to completely alternate how they play! You just argue for the sake of arguing. If you honestly think guys are playing defensive back the same way today as they were in the 90s and decades before that, you are blind. There's a reason a guy like Matt Stafford has more 5,000 yard seasons than Dan Marino and it's not skill. The league has been completely altered. You're the one who claims that defenders can't even breath on a WR without being penalized but this is clearly, by any measure, untrue. The major rule change of no contact beyond 5 yards is the main difference--and this began only 2 years ago. Yet it was only called 62 times all year (my 59 was incorrect before)---that's less than 2 per team per season. It's hardly ever being called--how can it be a deterrent to contact?? Defensive holding has always been just that, as has PI. In 2012, 2 years before the league altered the 5 yard rule to no contact, there were 234 ints total. In 2014, the first year of the rule there were 224. In 2003, the top 5 players in passes defended ranged from 21-27. In 2014, it's 18-27. In 2015 it's 22-29. And you're saying the DBs have been completely backing off WRs for fear of penalty? Here's something that suggests some other reasons passing is more prominent over time. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a44e69/article/passing-league-explaining-the-nfls-aerial-evolution
K-9 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Recency bias is alive and well I see. Nothing against Deion Sanders, who was one of the best of all time, but he was no where near the "original" shut down corner. Not even close. GO BILLS!!!
K-9 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 You're the one who claims that defenders can't even breath on a WR without being penalized but this is clearly, by any measure, untrue. The major rule change of no contact beyond 5 yards is the main difference--and this began only 2 years ago. Yet it was only called 62 times all year (my 59 was incorrect before)---that's less than 2 per team per season. It's hardly ever being called--how can it be a deterrent to contact?? Defensive holding has always been just that, as has PI. In 2012, 2 years before the league altered the 5 yard rule to no contact, there were 234 ints total. In 2014, the first year of the rule there were 224. In 2003, the top 5 players in passes defended ranged from 21-27. In 2014, it's 18-27. In 2015 it's 22-29. And you're saying the DBs have been completely backing off WRs for fear of penalty? Here's something that suggests some other reasons passing is more prominent over time. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a44e69/article/passing-league-explaining-the-nfls-aerial-evolution The illegal chuck rule has been around for over 40 years.
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