billsfan_34 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Drafting an ILB is like treating the symptoms of a disease. Buffalo's main problem is found elsewhere, namely QB play and stopping/preventing large passing performances. They need a pass rush before their ILB's are upgraded. Ragland may well be a fine player, but positional value being what it is you don't draft ILB's in the first round unless they're a Kuechly who plays 3 downs, covers extremely well and is a sideline to sideline player. I'm not sure Ragland is that guy. Drafting a ILB would be par for the course with this franchise. Using the draft to fill needs the result of major scheme changes. If we were running a 4-3 I would agree however in a 3-4 we need a crop of linebackers and yes we do need a DE also. Years of back and forth with switching base defenses has caught up to us. Go Bills.
Blokestradamus Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Ragland only did 13 reps. Hell, I can do 15 reps, and I weigh 70#s less than Reggie. The last thing the Bills need is a weak ass linebacker that is slow and can't cover Reggie has been dealing with a shoulder complaint for a while. It's why he didn't lift at the Combine. Perhaps scouts asked nicely at his Pro Day and he gave it a shot. I can't help you if you watch him play and think he's weak. He's also not slow (he just isn't fast) and he can cover better than most of the guys you probably think are coverage LB's. My real problem with Ragland is they pulled him off the field in that last bowl game. My real problem is that that's the ONLY game 90% of people have watched him in. I get a LOT of SEC games over here, I've probably watched him a dozen times live. I've watched the 8 games on DraftBreakdown twice over (like with Teddy Bridgewater, I did a re-check after a wall of criticism). I genuinely don't think enough people have done their due diligence on him. Saw one game and a 40 time and figured they know him as a player. Of course there's exceptions to this (we both know who talks a good game here) but I think the entire draft discussion is diluted by people who get their opinions from elsewhere.
KOKBILLS Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Reggie has been dealing with a shoulder complaint for a while. It's why he didn't lift at the Combine. Perhaps scouts asked nicely at his Pro Day and he gave it a shot. I can't help you if you watch him play and think he's weak. He's also not slow (he just isn't fast) and he can cover better than most of the guys you probably think are coverage LB's. My real problem is that that's the ONLY game 90% of people have watched him in. I get a LOT of SEC games over here, I've probably watched him a dozen times live. I've watched the 8 games on DraftBreakdown twice over (like with Teddy Bridgewater, I did a re-check after a wall of criticism). I genuinely don't think enough people have done their due diligence on him. Saw one game and a 40 time and figured they know him as a player. Of course there's exceptions to this (we both know who talks a good game here) but I think the entire draft discussion is diluted by people who get their opinions from elsewhere. Ragland is a good player...Unquestionably...But the jump is steep...And the Bills already have a player that is similar to Ragland in Preston Brown...And before anyone gets crazy I know Ragland is the better prospect...He'll probably be a better pro...But in Rex's Defense...heck in the NFL period...the vast majority of downs there is only going to be one "inside" LB on the field at a time... And raw numbers matter when you are comparing him against the 3 to 4 players that the Bills will likely be looking at when their pick comes around at #19...I just don't think he's going to stack up against a D-lineman who will be in there on most downs with Dareus and KW...And the top of this Draft is loaded with those kind of D-linemen...LB is a need...But the last thing you want to do is pass on a better player...in another area of need btw (unless of course you ignore all those downs Mario Williams played last year)... I certainly don't want to sound negative about Ragland...Or Lee...Floyd for that matter...But what I see from all of them are more 1-2 down players in this Defense...In a normal Draft year I honestly would be fine with that...Because the Bills do desperately need LB depth...But in this Draft you have D-linemen that have legit Pro Bowl potential...You have guys who are potential monsters that...next to Dareus...would drastically change this Defense on all 3 downs...And IF it comes down to BPA at #19 I just can't see a scenario where any of these LB's...Ragland included...will be better than one of the many D-linemen available... Edited April 21, 2016 by KOKBILLS
Coach Tuesday Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Ragland is a good player...Unquestionably...But the jump is steep...And the Bills already have a player that is similar to Ragland in Preston Brown...And before anyone gets crazy I know Ragland is the better prospect...He'll probably be a better pro...But in Rex's Defense...heck in the NFL period...the vast majority of downs there is only going to be one "inside" LB on the field at a time... And raw numbers matter when you are comparing him against the 3 to 4 players that the Bills will likely be looking at when their pick comes around at #19...I just don't think he's going to stack up against a D-lineman who will be in there on most downs with Dareus and KW...And the top of this Draft is loaded with those kind of D-linemen...LB is a need...But the last thing you want to do is pass on a better player...in another area of need btw (unless of course you ignore all those downs Mario Williams played last year)... I certainly don't want to sound negative about Ragland...Or Lee...Floyd for that matter...But what I see from all of them are more 1-2 down players in this Defense...In a normal Draft year I honestly would be fine with that...Because the Bills do desperately need LB depth...But in this Draft you have D-linemen that have legit Pro Bowl potential...You have guys who are potential monsters that...next to Dareus...would drastically change this Defense on all 3 downs...And IF it comes down to BPA at #19 I just can't see a scenario where any of these LB's...Ragland included...will be better than one of the many D-linemen available... Your keyboard is having its period...
KOKBILLS Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Your keyboard is having its period... It's what I do...
3rdand12 Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I think Ragland is a nice player... However I'm not in favor of taking a LB at #19...And I don't think the Bills will be either...For a few reasons... Reason #1 is the loss of Mario Williams and the fantastic depth of 1st Round talent that should be available at #19...Many of whom will fit Rex's Defense better than Mario did anyway...Players like the Alabama DT's, Chris Jones, Vernon Butler, and even Nkemdicke are really nice fits for what Rex wants in a D-Lineman...Like I've said here before, think Wilkerson and Richardson... Reason #2...I just don't think any of these LB's is going to be the BPA at #19...Ragland is a good player...But he's not Luke Kuechly...Lee is on the smallish side...He would be a great situation cover-LB as a Rookie...But I'm looking for more in a 1st Round pick...Especially this year...Jones is more of a 3rd Down Pass Rush specialist-type...Any of these three would be great at #49...But I feel #19 is just too high... Lastly...I think if you look at Rex's history he values D-Line over LB...In his 6 years as the Jets HC the highest Draft pick they used on the LB position was Demario Davis at #77 overall (3rd Rd) in 2012...In that same time the Jets used three 1st round picks, and a 3rd, on D-Linemen...Rex is going to have a voice in the process of building his Defense...And this year the talent that will likely be available at #19 lines up... I'm not sure who the Bills take at #19...I know who I prefer...But we'll see...I do however think it's going to come from this DEEP group of D-linemen...And I think it's going to lean towards the tackles who can line up in any of the 3 D-line positions Rex uses in a high percentage of downs...I think the Bills are going to identify a guy who can play the majority of the snaps along side Dareus and KW...It's a huge need regardless...But I think for what Rex wants to do it's FAR more important than a two down LB... good and fair post KOK. Reggie has been dealing with a shoulder complaint for a while. It's why he didn't lift at the Combine. Perhaps scouts asked nicely at his Pro Day and he gave it a shot. I can't help you if you watch him play and think he's weak. He's also not slow (he just isn't fast) and he can cover better than most of the guys you probably think are coverage LB's. My real problem is that that's the ONLY game 90% of people have watched him in. I get a LOT of SEC games over here, I've probably watched him a dozen times live. I've watched the 8 games on DraftBreakdown twice over (like with Teddy Bridgewater, I did a re-check after a wall of criticism). I genuinely don't think enough people have done their due diligence on him. Saw one game and a 40 time and figured they know him as a player. Of course there's exceptions to this (we both know who talks a good game here) but I think the entire draft discussion is diluted by people who get their opinions from elsewhere. I am guilty of just that. which is why i have changed my opinion on Ragland. The more i read, i hope the more i can become balanced in my opinion. nad my opinion of Reggies has changed from heck no to, hmmm? maybe this could work. He is not a risk so much as is he a fit? Ragland is a good player...Unquestionably...But the jump is steep...And the Bills already have a player that is similar to Ragland in Preston Brown...And before anyone gets crazy I know Ragland is the better prospect...He'll probably be a better pro...But in Rex's Defense...heck in the NFL period...the vast majority of downs there is only going to be one "inside" LB on the field at a time... And raw numbers matter when you are comparing him against the 3 to 4 players that the Bills will likely be looking at when their pick comes around at #19...I just don't think he's going to stack up against a D-lineman who will be in there on most downs with Dareus and KW...And the top of this Draft is loaded with those kind of D-linemen...LB is a need...But the last thing you want to do is pass on a better player...in another area of need btw (unless of course you ignore all those downs Mario Williams played last year)... I certainly don't want to sound negative about Ragland...Or Lee...Floyd for that matter...But what I see from all of them are more 1-2 down players in this Defense...In a normal Draft year I honestly would be fine with that...Because the Bills do desperately need LB depth...But in this Draft you have D-linemen that have legit Pro Bowl potential...You have guys who are potential monsters that...next to Dareus...would drastically change this Defense on all 3 downs...And IF it comes down to BPA at #19 I just can't see a scenario where any of these LB's...Ragland included...will be better than one of the many D-linemen available... Your evaluation of what will be available and prioritizing need is agreeable. a 3 down DT or DE who can be versatile or impactful is much more valuable than a Ragland or Lee for that matter, whether i think highly of the guy or not. Tough call even to pick the lineman at nineteen. some nice choices could be there! Your keyboard is having its period... a good flow is key to a good period
Blokestradamus Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) Ragland is a good player...Unquestionably...But the jump is steep...And the Bills already have a player that is similar to Ragland in Preston Brown...And before anyone gets crazy I know Ragland is the better prospect...He'll probably be a better pro...But in Rex's Defense...heck in the NFL period...the vast majority of downs there is only going to be one "inside" LB on the field at a time... And raw numbers matter when you are comparing him against the 3 to 4 players that the Bills will likely be looking at when their pick comes around at #19...I just don't think he's going to stack up against a D-lineman who will be in there on most downs with Dareus and KW...And the top of this Draft is loaded with those kind of D-linemen...LB is a need...But the last thing you want to do is pass on a better player...in another area of need btw (unless of course you ignore all those downs Mario Williams played last year)... I certainly don't want to sound negative about Ragland...Or Lee...Floyd for that matter...But what I see from all of them are more 1-2 down players in this Defense...In a normal Draft year I honestly would be fine with that...Because the Bills do desperately need LB depth...But in this Draft you have D-linemen that have legit Pro Bowl potential...You have guys who are potential monsters that...next to Dareus...would drastically change this Defense on all 3 downs...And IF it comes down to BPA at #19 I just can't see a scenario where any of these LB's...Ragland included...will be better than one of the many D-linemen available... I wholeheartedly agree that Reggie shouldn't be at the top of the Bills board. He's not the biggest need pick because Preston can do a job at MLB. As much as I love Ragland as a player, I realise that he's probably not the guy we should be after at 19. Part of me is thinking that LB drops off faster than DL does and that's leading me to thinking of taking LB in the 1st and leaving DL for later rounds (where some real talent should be left at 49). Part of me is thinking the same about an edge rusher. Take Spence or Shaq Lawson if they're available at 19 because the dropoff is pretty severe at EDGE too. Same applies to Taylor Decker if he's available. What really inspired my mini-rant about Ragland wasn't people like yourself. I'm not blind to circumstance, I know that the team has bigger weaknesses than MLB. It's simply that I hate the fact that certain fallacies (or things I believe to be fallacies) are being spread about him by people that probably haven't ever watched him play. I also dug my heels in after all those idiots decided to get after Teddy Bridgewater because of his Pro Day. Chances are, that was about all most of them saw of Teddy. In short, I think I hate the draft process. Edited April 22, 2016 by Blokestradamus
Kirby Jackson Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I'm thinking that Cravens is the pick in the 2nd. I'm not a Ragland guy and I think that Lee will be off the board. Unless Jack slips a little and the Bills move up, he's not an option either. Cravens in the 2nd and then someone like Morrison (or Roberts) later in the draft should round out the LBs.
Blokestradamus Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) I'm thinking that Cravens is the pick in the 2nd. I'm not a Ragland guy and I think that Lee will be off the board. Unless Jack slips a little and the Bills move up, he's not an option either. Cravens in the 2nd and then someone like Morrison (or Roberts) later in the draft should round out the LBs. I don't get this Cravens at LB thing. He had to drop weight (pro day was 220 pounds) to run sub 4.7. As that third safety Rex likes to run, sure. The idea of playing him at WILB is beyond me though. He's a smart and talented guy, I hope the new small ILB fad doesn't ruin him. Edited April 22, 2016 by Blokestradamus
Kirby Jackson Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I don't get this Cravens at LB thing. He had to drop weight (pro day was 220 pounds) to run sub 4.7. As that third safety Rex likes to run, sure. The idea of playing him at WILB is beyond me though. He's a smart and talented guy, I hope the new small ILB fad doesn't ruin him. I think that the fad is what's pushing him up. These "hybrid" types are all the rage and he is someone that Rex coil get creative with. In addition his skill set would seem to be different from Brown adding a new dimension.
papazoid Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 be leary of alabama LB's they are protected by legfit NFL bound lineman. makes em look better than they really are.
Blokestradamus Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I think that the fad is what's pushing him up. These "hybrid" types are all the rage and he is someone that Rex coil get creative with. In addition his skill set would seem to be different from Brown adding a new dimension. He's a matchup guy. A chess piece. I don't mind him if there's variety to his usage. I guess the main issue I have is how that gets valued. Frankly, I wouldn't take him before the 3rd. be leary of alabama LB's they are protected by legfit NFL bound lineman. makes em look better than they really are. I saw the same thing said about Dont'a Hightower. About CJ Mosley. Why punish a player for having good teammates? The idea in the NFL is to surround them with NFL-calibre DL as well. Trey DePriest went undrafted a year ago so it's not like every Alabama LB gets this kind of 'hype', just the good ones.
thebandit27 Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 He's a matchup guy. A chess piece. I don't mind him if there's variety to his usage. I guess the main issue I have is how that gets valued. Frankly, I wouldn't take him before the 3rd. I saw the same thing said about Dont'a Hightower. About CJ Mosley. Why punish a player for having good teammates? The idea in the NFL is to surround them with NFL-calibre DL as well. Trey DePriest went undrafted a year ago so it's not like every Alabama LB gets this kind of 'hype', just the good ones. And we should be prepared to hear it again next year with Reuben Foster
Blokestradamus Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 And we should be prepared to hear it again next year with Reuben Foster "But Jon Allen.......DaShawn Hand......Dalvin Tomlinson". Every damn year without fail. That Bama D is going to be fun again next year. Tim Williams, Ryan Anderson, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Eddie Jackson
KOKBILLS Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I don't get this Cravens at LB thing. He had to drop weight (pro day was 220 pounds) to run sub 4.7. As that third safety Rex likes to run, sure. The idea of playing him at WILB is beyond me though. He's a smart and talented guy, I hope the new small ILB fad doesn't ruin him. Agreed...I think he's a really neat piece if you have a plan for him...But if he's going to go in the Top 50 I'm more than willing to let another team figure that out...
Zac Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I think that the fad is what's pushing him up. These "hybrid" types are all the rage and he is someone that Rex coil get creative with. In addition his skill set would seem to be different from Brown adding a new dimension. How does Cravens compare to Kam Chancellor (knowing full well that no one compares to Kam)?
Jauronimo Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 be leary of alabama LB's they are protected by legfit NFL bound lineman. makes em look better than they really are. I would be leery of all Alabama players in general. They pump out a lot of disappointing pros.
H2o Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I would be leery of all Alabama players in general. They pump out a lot of disappointing pros. RB's? Yes. Ingram hasn't really lived up to the hype and Richardson we all know of. But think about Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, Donta Hightower, CJ Mosely, and Dareus. They also pump out some elite players at their respective positions. It happens with all colleges. The thing about the SEC is it has been the toughest conference in the land for a long time. They play against other top notch college players almost every week. It's not a bad place to look to in the draft.
Jauronimo Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 RB's? Yes. Ingram hasn't really lived up to the hype and Richardson we all know of. But think about Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, Donta Hightower, CJ Mosely, and Dareus. They also pump out some elite players at their respective positions. It happens with all colleges. The thing about the SEC is it has been the toughest conference in the land for a long time. They play against other top notch college players almost every week. It's not a bad place to look to in the draft. Its not just RBs. Milliner, Rolando McClain, Barron, Mt. Cody have been spectacular failures. Our own Kouandjio is looking totally over matched. What bothers me most is that these guys are usually considered safe picks because they played at Bama.
YattaOkasan Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 Part of me is thinking that LB drops off faster than DL does and that's leading me to thinking of taking LB in the 1st and leaving DL for later rounds (where some real talent should be left at 49). Part of me is thinking the same about an edge rusher. Take Spence or Shaq Lawson if they're available at 19 because the dropoff is pretty severe at EDGE too. Same applies to Taylor Decker if he's available. I am also feeling EDGE at 19 then DL at 49 followed by at least one LB in three picks in the 3rd and 4th.
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