BADOLBILZ Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Kelvin Sheppard(2nd offseason)= Jerry Hughes Kiko Alonso(2nd offseason)= shady Preston Brown(2nd offseason)= ??? Yeah I've pointed that good fortune out about 5 times wrt ILB picks in other threads. Ryan Grigson isn't always going to be there to bail you out though. And McCoy is going to end up costing a bit north of $30M for two of his worst career seasons before he is cut after this season. So, they would have been better off just letting Kiko bust if that's what he was going to do......that Kiko pick got VERY costly. If I gotta choose between playing Preston Brown at ILB or using my first round pick on Ragland to replace Brown..........I'm coaching Brown up. Realistically this team isn't going to be playing a lot of sets with two thumpers so the people trying to figure out who the OTHER ILB is going to be need to recognize that 11 minus a nickel equals 6 remaining DL/LB's........and subtract 3 or 4 DL and you get 2 or 3 LB's more often than not.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Yeah I've pointed that good fortune out about 5 times wrt ILB picks in other threads. Ryan Grigson isn't always going to be there to bail you out though. And McCoy is going to end up costing a bit north of $30M for two of his worst career seasons before he is cut after this season. So, they would have been better off just letting Kiko bust if that's what he was going to do......that Kiko pick got VERY costly. If I gotta choose between playing Preston Brown at ILB or using my first round pick on Ragland to replace Brown..........I'm coaching Brown up. Realistically this team isn't going to be playing a lot of sets with two thumpers so the people trying to figure out who the OTHER ILB is going to be need to recognize that 11 minus a nickel equals 6 remaining DL/LB's........and subtract 3 or 4 DL and you get 2 or 3 LB's more often than not. Preston Brown hasn't left the field since entering the NFL. I wouldn't call him a thumper. He struggled picking up the defense last year, but as a rookie he was one the top graded coverage LBS. Ragland dropped 20lbs. He is a very instinctive LB that never left the field in Alabama. He can also play the edge and rush the passer. He is going to be a great pro. The weight loss will help him stay on the field in the NFL. Edited April 1, 2016 by TheTruthHurts
BADOLBILZ Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Why are you mentioning mid round picks in reference to our 1st round pick? Ragland is a top 15-20 rated player. That would not be a strictly need pick. It would equal a best available and need pick. Kiko was a second rounder and Sheldon and Preston were 3rd rounders........those aren't mid rounds. Buddy and Whaley have had some real sh*t luck drafting for need in the second and third round. the Troupacabra.....Shep...Russell Wilson(I mean TJ Graham!)...Kujo....Kiko....Preston Brown...and John Miller is headed toward being the next. Last year they picked Ron Darby early and everyone freaked because it wasn't a need........and then it became a need in the summer when Leodis wasn't healthy and now if they lost him it would be their #1 defensive need. Needs change fast........get good players at high dollar, high impact positions and you will find it very easy to keep your team competitive.
purple haze Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 If we are drafting a 1st round LB then Im expecting to get a dependable and productive player like a CJ Mosley, Ryan Shazier or another LB who can play 3 downs CBF So, Darron Lee by your requirements.
H2o Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Because he drafted two poor ILB's? Whaley having a talent for drafting poor ILB's, and trading them for decent non-ILB's doesn't really help our ILB position. No, but Whaley more than righted those wrongs. Kiko wasn't a bad player for us either, but injuries have mounted and he's going to his third team in three years. Brown had a solid rookie season as well, but struggled last season. To say Whaley is "poor" at drafting ILB's is pretty off base. Let's not forget his time in Pittsburgh as Pro Personnel Coordinatior scouting players for that team such as Lawrence Timmons among others.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Kiko was a second rounder and Sheldon and Preston were 3rd rounders........those aren't mid rounds. Buddy and Whaley have had some real sh*t luck drafting for need in the second and third round. the Troupacabra.....Shep...Russell Wilson(I mean TJ Graham!)...Kujo....Kiko....Preston Brown...and John Miller is headed toward being the next. Last year they picked Ron Darby early and everyone freaked because it wasn't a need........and then it became a need in the summer when Leodis wasn't healthy and now if they lost him it would be their #1 defensive need. Needs change fast........get good players at high dollar, high impact positions and you will find it very easy to keep your team competitive. You honestly can't be serious when saying Kiko Alonso was a bad pick. He won PFW rookie of the year. Preston Brown also was good as a rookie. You're not making sense. But like you said they are not 1st round picks. Ragland wouldn't be considered a reach at 19. I don't understand what your point is.
Pete Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Kelvin Sheppard(2nd offseason)= Jerry Hughes Kiko Alonso(2nd offseason)= shady Preston Brown(2nd offseason)= ??? Beat me to it. 2 and maybe 3 more feathers in Whaley's cap
FireChan Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 No, but Whaley more than righted those wrongs. Kiko wasn't a bad player for us either, but injuries have mounted and he's going to his third team in three years. Brown had a solid rookie season as well, but struggled last season. To say Whaley is "poor" at drafting ILB's is pretty off base. Let's not forget his time in Pittsburgh as Pro Personnel Coordinatior scouting players for that team such as Lawrence Timmons among others. Not with ILB depth/players. Which is the point of drafting an ILB, no? Not to draft trade bait. We have no idea his input in Pitt. I'll judge him based on the things I know he pulled the trigger on.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 You honestly can't be serious when saying Kiko Alonso was a bad pick. He won PFW rookie of the year. Preston Brown also was good as a rookie. You're not making sense. But like you said they are not 1st round picks. Ragland wouldn't be considered a reach at 19. I don't understand what your point is. Alonso and Brown were surprise picks for need and their "impact" dissipated quickly. They played well as rookies while otherwise surrounded with top talent but there is no excuse for using 3 early round picks on ILB in that short of a period of time and then to have to use a first round pick on a position that is not at a premium in the NFL. You disagree, that's fine.........but there is a reason that "good" ILB's get paid about half of what a "good" pass rushing OLB earns. Positional importance matters and for all you know Tony Steward could play a couple downs every series and cover that need. You aren't nearly as likely to find that much help in the late rounds at QB, WR or Pass rusher.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Ray Lewis, Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott, Terrell Suggs, Peter Bulware, David Harris, Calvin Pace, LB is CLEARLY overrated in a Rex Ryan defense. Who needed these bums in a Ryan Defense? Overrated. Edited April 1, 2016 by QuoteTheRaven83
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Alonso and Brown were surprise picks for need and their "impact" dissipated quickly. They played well as rookies while otherwise surrounded with top talent but there is no excuse for using 3 early round picks on ILB in that short of a period of time and then to have to use a first round pick on a position that is not at a premium in the NFL. You disagree, that's fine.........but there is a reason that "good" ILB's get paid about half of what a "good" pass rushing OLB earns. Positional importance matters and for all you know Tony Steward could play a couple downs every series and cover that need. You aren't nearly as likely to find that much help in the late rounds at QB, WR or Pass rusher. Ok, so what you want to say is spending a pick on an ILB is a waste of a pick. You aren't talking about best available, which Ragland could be. I have no issues drafting LBs. Preston Brown actually played weakside as a rookie. Alonso was a weakside LB in college that moved to MIKE in the NFL. As for 1st round pick LBs, they better be 3 down LBs, Ragland does multiple things. He doesnt have to cover in passing situations, he also plays OLB and rushes the passer. They got a lot of value for those LB picks. Edited April 1, 2016 by TheTruthHurts
BADOLBILZ Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Ray Lewis, Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott, Terrell Suggs, Peter Bulware, David Harris, Calvin Pace, LB is CLEARLY overrated in a Rex Ryan defense. Who needed these bums in a Ryan Defense? Overrated. Only Lewis, Scott and Harris were really ILB's..........and as tremendous as those guys were......none of them were drafted as high as #19. Even THEN ILB wasn't valued.........Bart Scott was an UDFA........you don't have to be high pedigree to succeed inside in RR D. My favorite player in the draft is Myles Jack.......he's a versatile, modern LB that can do it all.....including kill it against the pass. Ragland is not the kind of flexible player you need to spend an early pick on. Good player but he lined up behind and NFL front of run stoppers......he's not special.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Only Lewis, Scott and Harris were really ILB's..........and as tremendous as those guys were......none of them were drafted as high as #19. Even THEN ILB wasn't valued.........Bart Scott was an UDFA........you don't have to be high pedigree to succeed inside in RR D. My favorite player in the draft is Myles Jack.......he's a versatile, modern LB that can do it all.....including kill it against the pass. Ragland is not the kind of flexible player you need to spend an early pick on. Good player but he lined up behind and NFL front of run stoppers......he's not special. Thats not true. People bash the guy because he played at 265lbs. He still graded well in his zone drops. He struggled in man. Obviously, he was 260+ lbs. He offers versatility as an edge player. He never left the field. Thats why we likely wont have a chance to draft him. Edited April 1, 2016 by TheTruthHurts
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Only Lewis, Scott and Harris were really ILB's..........and as tremendous as those guys were......none of them were drafted as high as #19. Even THEN ILB wasn't valued.........Bart Scott was an UDFA........you don't have to be high pedigree to succeed inside in RR D. My favorite player in the draft is Myles Jack.......he's a versatile, modern LB that can do it all.....including kill it against the pass. Ragland is not the kind of flexible player you need to spend an early pick on. Good player but he lined up behind and NFL front of run stoppers......he's not special. Did I say ILB? Notice that I said LB's. All of those guys were LB's. We need OLB AND ILB. We need any kind of LB.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Ok, so what you want to say is spending a pick on an ILB is a waste of a pick. You aren't talking about best available, which Ragland could be. I have no issues drafting LBs. Preston Brown actually played weakside as a rookie. Alonso was a weakside LB in college that moved to MIKE in the NFL. As for 1st round pick LBs, they better be 3 down LBs, Ragland does multiple things. He doesnt have to cover in passing situations, he also plays OLB and rushes the passer. They got a lot of value for those LB picks. It's both......I wouldn't use a first round pick on an ILB unless he were the next Brian Urlacher.......which is to say a versatile freak of a LB and I'm not that impressed with Ragland. I hear the talk about moving Preston Brown outside and have to laugh........the OLB's in RR D are usually long types with pass rusher builds that can at least set the edge.......that ain't Preston Brown. When the Bills line up 4 LB's I'd like to see a cheap but effective vet like Calvin Pace outside.....Lawson and Brown inside.....and Hughes on the other side. When they have 3 on.......Pace comes off. They could have gotten better players than Ragland likely ever will be.........McClain or Dansby.......and CHEAP.......and that says a lot about the intelligence of using a first round pick on the position. Thats not true. People bash the guy because he played at 265lbs. He still graded well in his zone drops. He struggled in man. Obviously, he was 260+ lbs. He offers versatility as an edge player. He never left the field. Thats why we likely wont have a chance to draft him. Yeah he's an edge player the same way that Jim Dray can split out wide and provide matchup advantages against LB's. I think Derrick Henry can probably rush the passer better than Ragland. Call it a lazy comparison but Saban recruits a type for his run stopping based D and we are always hearing about how these guys didn't get to show what they can do in his system. Then Courtney Upshaw can't get a sack to save his life and hits free agency and nobody cares. Ragland is a nice player but he's just a plain old ILB from what I can see watching Bama 7-8 times per year.
Marty McFly Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) I don't understand how anyone can look at our team and not see LB as the most glaring area of need for this team. Whether it's ILB or a pass rushing OLB, we need big time help at both. LBs are the heart and soul of any defense and historically all great defenses had at least 1 tremendous LB leading that D. We don't have any who are even close. We need to find that leader on D, Brown doesn't seem to be the answer. We already have 2 great pass rushers if utilized properly in Dareus and Hughes. When watching Bama games this year I was always noticing Ragland making plays sideline to sideline and being that on-field leader. With all the talent on that defense and still being able to easily notice Ragland as sticking out as a great player, I have confidence that he can become a very effective player and leader for any defense. agree. i always take Ragland 1st in the draftek mocks if hes there. Honestly IDC if its an ILB or an OLB all I know is we need a star rookie LB, and a start ready NT outta this draft to make Rexs defense work better this season. Edited April 1, 2016 by Marty McFly
Billsmovinup Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Doug Whaley will be giving you a call later... You should consider a career in stand up. Your hilarious.
Blokestradamus Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 I will die on this particular hill with you, 1billsfan. Athletic ability does not equal good in coverage. Being smooth in your drops does, being exceptional at processing the play does, being disciplined to your assignment does. Reggie Ragland is a 3-down linebacker in this league and any other. You can take your fast 40 time and shove it up your arse, Darron Lee!
r00tabaga Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Edge rusher is our biggest need. And there's plenty. LBs & RBs are later round guys in today's NFL.
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