Beerball Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 Drafting a guy to be a backup qb seems completely insane to me. Well, that's because it is. Can you see a GM, any GM saying that they hope to draft a backup (at any position)?
K D Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 Chris Brown from Bills.com just said Kevin Hogan has a weak arm and can't make the deep throws. He would be a better fit in a West coast offense where they have a lot of quick horizontal throws. Sounds like Capt checkdown part deux
ganesh Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 When does where you're drafted/selected mean anymore?? It does. In the recent past, very few (or none) late round QBs have been successful. (It doesn't mean that top round pick all have been successful; they are just saying that if you pick in early rounds, the chance of success is better)
2003Contenders Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 Chris Brown from Bills.com just said Kevin Hogan has a weak arm and can't make the deep throws. He would be a better fit in a West coast offense where they have a lot of quick horizontal throws. Sounds like Capt checkdown part deux Interesting. That is not my evaluation of him. While he lacks a cannon for an arm, I think his arm is good enough. The issue with his deep passes is more mechanical in terms of his footwork and delivery rather than arm strength.
John from Riverside Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 Chris Brown from Bills.com just said Kevin Hogan has a weak arm and can't make the deep throws. He would be a better fit in a West coast offense where they have a lot of quick horizontal throws. Sounds like Capt checkdown part deux So he is basically Ryan Fitzpatrick
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Interesting. That is not my evaluation of him. While he lacks a cannon for an arm, I think his arm is good enough. The issue with his deep passes is more mechanical in terms of his footwork and delivery rather than arm strength.Some of his passes seem like pop flys to wide open guys (their play design and running attack gets guys wide open).I had the same thoughts about Bridgewater's deep ball and I believe it is superior to Hogan's arm. I think people forgot how small passing Windows get in the NFL. A pass that is a split second too slow can be a pick 6. Edited April 27, 2016 by C.Biscuit97
Nihilarian Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 There are legitimate concerns about Hogan, but lack of mobility is definitely not one of them. He is a highly mobile QB, especially for his size. This is backed up by his 40 times, his rushing statistics, and the fact that even in its pro-set offense, Stanford regularly called designed runs for him. Anyone who watched more than a few Stanford games over the past four years knows that Hogan's mobility is a strength rather than a limitation. He reminds me a lot of Andrew Luck in that regard. I have no idea why that scouting report mentioned he lacks "great mobility" because as you say he has a decent 40 time (4.78) and has run designed QB option plays. Plus his 36 career wins are the most in school history and way more than John Elway who went 20-23. For those who want to further drool over what could be the Bills 4th round pick. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646131/article/bills-gm-kevin-hogan-is-drafts-most-proready-qb-for-our-team
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 I have no idea why that scouting report mentioned he lacks "great mobility" because as you say he has a decent 40 time (4.78) and has run designed QB option plays. Plus his 36 career wins are the most in school history and way more than John Elway who went 20-23. For those who want to further drool over what could be the Bills 4th round pick. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646131/article/bills-gm-kevin-hogan-is-drafts-most-proready-qb-for-our-team Please stop with the wins. It is completely meaningless. The fact that Elway went #1 overall with that record and Hogan is a mid round at best prospect with his school "record" (Luck left early) shows how meaningless it is.
Coach Tuesday Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 I have no idea why that scouting report mentioned he lacks "great mobility" because as you say he has a decent 40 time (4.78) and has run designed QB option plays. Plus his 36 career wins are the most in school history and way more than John Elway who went 20-23. For those who want to further drool over what could be the Bills 4th round pick. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646131/article/bills-gm-kevin-hogan-is-drafts-most-proready-qb-for-our-team Tebow had plenty of wins...
John from Riverside Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 Tebow had plenty of wins... Shows you how much of a crap shoot it really is And nobody is talking about drafting Hogan in the 1st round like the other qbs mentioned
Nihilarian Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 Please stop with the wins. It is completely meaningless. The fact that Elway went #1 overall with that record and Hogan is a mid round at best prospect with his school "record" (Luck left early) shows how meaningless it is. I agree for the most part but I also I don't think it's completely meaningless as some QB's playing on bad teams can actually elevate the play of the players around them to get wins and that is an important factor. BTW, Luck didn't leave early as he redshirted his first year and he went 31-7 at Stanford and had a better winning percentage. I'm also not a big fan of taking a QB past the second round in the draft and then anticipating them to be a viable starting QB for the future. In regards to Hogan, I was merely feeding the fans that really like him. Earlier in this thread I made it known I wasn't really a big fan of taking QB's later in the draft.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 I agree for the most part but I also I don't think it's completely meaningless as some QB's playing on bad teams can actually elevate the play of the players around them to get wins and that is an important factor. BTW, Luck didn't leave early as he redshirted his first year and he went 31-7 at Stanford and had a better winning percentage. I'm also not a big fan of taking a QB past the second round in the draft and then anticipating them to be a viable starting QB for the future. In regards to Hogan, I was merely feeding the fans that really like him. Earlier in this thread I made it known I wasn't really a big fan of taking QB's later in the draft. Ok, fair enough. I think Stanford is the most qb friendly system in the country. It's the Harbaugh model. He and Stanford are not going to require their Qbs to win or lose games. They are going to have strong oline and running game, good TEs, and allow their Qbs to make safe throws. I think Stanford is a plug and play situation where a ton of Qbs would excel. I credit Hogan for being a smart qb who had a very good college career. But to make it in the NFL, I think you need to demonstrate the ability to win games yourself in college. And I never really saw that from him.
K D Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 I have no idea why that scouting report mentioned he lacks "great mobility" because as you say he has a decent 40 time (4.78) and has run designed QB option plays. Plus his 36 career wins are the most in school history and way more than John Elway who went 20-23. For those who want to further drool over what could be the Bills 4th round pick. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646131/article/bills-gm-kevin-hogan-is-drafts-most-proready-qb-for-our-team That tape was awful. Did you link the wrong game? Looks like Trent Edwards doing a Phillip Rivers throwing motion impression. That tape is embarrassing. If they are going by that then he will go undrafted
Prickly Pete Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 That tape was awful. Did you link the wrong game? Looks like Trent Edwards doing a Phillip Rivers throwing motion impression. That tape is embarrassing. If they are going by that then he will go undrafted I posted this same video earlier in the thread. He blows. He's a dork, and every action seemingly demands full exertion. Once more I'll say it....check out Connor Cook.
CBD Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 So he is basically Ryan Fitzpatrick He actually compared him unfavorably to Fitz in terms of arm strength
K D Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 I posted this same video earlier in the thread. He blows. He's a dork, and every action seemingly demands full exertion. Once more I'll say it....check out Connor Cook. I think Connor Cook is right up there with Goff and Wentz. I wouldn't trade all those picks to move up for someone like Goff but if he's really that valuable then I don't see why teams aren't moving up for Cook. What can Goff or Wentz do that Cook can't? And Hackenberg reads defenses like no college QB I have seen in a long time. I can't believe anyone thinks the top 3 guys are so much better than Cook or Hackenberg
Prickly Pete Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) I think Connor Cook is right up there with Goff and Wentz. I wouldn't trade all those picks to move up for someone like Goff but if he's really that valuable then I don't see why teams aren't moving up for Cook. What can Goff or Wentz do that Cook can't? And Hackenberg reads defenses like no college QB I have seen in a long time. I can't believe anyone thinks the top 3 guys are so much better than Cook or Hackenberg I have no idea either. Not sure I should derail this thread with more Cook, but he has the smoothness, and body language that cannot be taught. I was watching Jim Kelly footage from Miami U, and noticed right away his smoothness, and when I later saw Cook, he had a similar smoothness. So I have looked for it in old footage of guys like Marino, Kelly etc. I'm not claiming he will match them, but he has that level of smoothness. Look at the play fake at 1:06....Kevin Hogan will NEVER know that feeling of effortlessness, never move that well. Edited April 28, 2016 by HoF Watkins
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 I have no idea either. Not sure I should derail this thread with more Cook, but he has the smoothness, and body language that cannot be taught. I was watching Jim Kelly footage from Miami U, and noticed right away his smoothness, and when I later saw Cook, he had a similar smoothness. So I have looked for it in old footage of guys like Marino, Kelly etc. I'm not claiming he will match them, but he has that level of smoothness. Look at the play fake at 1:06....Kevin Hogan will NEVER know that feeling of effortlessness, never move that well. If Cook carried himself like Hogan, he'd be talked about going #1. His douche factor seems to huge and that could be a killer. Also, his completion % is troubling. But in terms of talent, Cook and Hogan aren't comparable.
GunnerBill Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 But in terms of talent, Cook and Hogan aren't comparable. And I don't think anyone is comparing them. Connor Cook has a much better chance of being successful in the pros than Kevin Hogan. The argument is not, from anyone I have seen, don't draft Connor Cook - wait and take Hogan. It is if the Bills are only looking for a guy to come in and add depth and competition initially for the #2 then Hogan might be worth a late round look. I am a big Connor Cook fan. If the Bills took a shot on him you would hear no "we should have got a 2016 impact guy on defense" from me. Cook has a chance to be a franchise guy.
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