reddogblitz Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Is it one or two, and if it is two where is the other story? The article states: A city document posted by the newspaper says the program follows the lead of San Francisco’s Homeward Bound program, which spent about $180 per person to provide travel assistance to 870 people between 2006-2014; fewer than 24 have returned to the city’s streets. Not bad. My car had a flat tire at the office Thursday. I was homeless for two whole hours. That's nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 The article states: Not bad. That's nice. You obviously didn't notice that swooshing noise over your head as something that must have gone over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 You obviously didn't notice that swooshing noise over your head as something that must have gone over your head. Well...this was awkward as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Not bad. What's not bad? That only 24 returned to the city? Two questions. How do they know that only 24 returned to SF and of the 846 that were shipped out and did not return how many of them returned to the streets in another city? And if anyone has the answer to the second question it's likely they're lying through their teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Homelessness is a complex socioeconomic issue, and does not have any easy or complete solutions. To me, you have to tackle it two ways, by addressing the short term homeless population, then setting ones sights on the chronic homeless. In my experience, being on the board of a charity that addressed the first group, you can help that group by getting them off the streets, cleaned up, safe, and in an environment to get back into productive employment of working toward that goal... the short term homeless tend to be a lot of people who have had bad stuff happen to them, are left with nothing and simply cannot get momentum to get back on their feet... one of my employee right now has 4 children, no help from the father and would be on the street or in a shelter without her sister. More concerning is this gal is part of a huge segment in the country I call the working poor.. working, but one huge car repair or major health related setback from being flat on their back- she also misses a lot of work because she has sick kids, spring break, can't afford child care, before school care etc... my response is why the !@#$ did you have 4 kids without a stable environment and a man to marry and support you, but that ship is passed and we now work the problem, with few answers other than an attendance records that warrants dismissal and huge amounts of social assistance. The other group, people who are crazy or have a deep dependency issues. The Denver Road Home, the 10 year plan to end homelessness has failed to achieve its goal with this group is any way shape or form- the problem, they don't want to he housed and live by rules, or simple don't have the capacity to function in those constrained environments. A bus ticket for those who have people who want to help them, to be is a decent idea- but then again, why weren't those family member or friends willing to send them a Greyhound ticket before? They are not that expensive. You don't get it which is hardly a surprise. Giving people a bus ticket will likely not solve the reason why they became homeless in the first place. You say the program works? Do you know this for a fact? I'm not so sure. What I've seen is there has been little if any follow up on the folks they've shipped out. You have someone who is a drug addict or alcoholic who gets shipped back to their family/friends. Then what? Now you have someone who is still a drug addict/alcoholic now living with friends and family. People don't do well coping with addicts and addicts lots of times do not seek help. You put those two together and you will likely end up with that person being back on the streets. So SF/Portland et al now feel good about "doing something" while the person they "helped" is back on the street someplace else. I'm only being pragmatic here. Portland and anywhere. Once again if this has been such a success why, after 10 years of the program, is homelessness as big an issue in SF as it always has been? But they probably have a better chance of getting into a treatment program back around family who somewhat care about them, versus a city where they don't know a single persona other than other homeless. Again, as I said in another post there is probably a reason why that person hasn't been on a bus sooner and a caring family not paying for the ticket probably isn't the case. My father has been to inpatient rehab 2 times, only to relapse and be in the same situation. But my family has some resources to continue to help if he wants it- which me and my family disagree on sharply.... but I think about those who don't have those resources, what would happen? I am sure my dad would be sleeping on the street in Portland, maybe a bus ticket takes him to Denver where he would end up on another street. I debate with myself if my dad is really ill, doe she not have the capacity to make decisions that are good- or is he just lazy and lacks humility. I lean toward the latter, and I think that is true is more cases than not. Edited March 28, 2016 by B-Large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Homelessness is a complex socioeconomic issue, and does not have any easy or complete solutions. To me, you have to tackle it two ways, by addressing the short term homeless population, then setting ones sights on the chronic homeless. In my experience, being on the board of a charity that addressed the first group, you can help that group by getting them off the streets, cleaned up, safe, and in an environment to get back into productive employment of working toward that goal... the short term homeless tend to be a lot of people who have had bad stuff happen to them, are left with nothing and simply cannot get momentum to get back on their feet... one of my employee right now has 4 children, no help from the father and would be on the street or in a shelter without her sister. More concerning is this gal is part of a huge segment in the country I call the working poor.. working, but one huge car repair or major health related setback from being flat on their back- she also misses a lot of work because she has sick kids, spring break, can't afford child care, before school care etc... my response is why the !@#$ did you have 4 kids without a stable environment and a man to marry and support you, but that ship is passed and we now work the problem, with few answers other than an attendance records that warrants dismissal and huge amounts of social assistance. The other group, people who are crazy or have a deep dependency issues. The Denver Road Home, the 10 year plan to end homelessness has failed to achieve its goal with this group is any way shape or form- the problem, they don't want to he housed and live by rules, or simple don't have the capacity to function in those constrained environments. A bus ticket for those who have people who want to help them, to be is a decent idea- but then again, why weren't those family member or friends willing to send them a Greyhound ticket before? They are not that expensive. But they probably have a better chance of getting into a treatment program back around family who somewhat care about them, versus a city where they don't know a single persona other than other homeless. Again, as I said in another post there is probably a reason why that person hasn't been on a bus sooner and a caring family not paying for the ticket probably isn't the case. My father has been to inpatient rehab 2 times, only to relapse and be in the same situation. But my family has some resources to continue to help if he wants it- which me and my family disagree on sharply.... but I think about those who don't have those resources, what would happen? I am sure my dad would be sleeping on the street in Portland, maybe a bus ticket takes him to Denver where he would end up on another street. I debate with myself if my dad is really ill, doe she not have the capacity to make decisions that are good- or is he just lazy and lacks humility. I lean toward the latter, and I think that is true is more cases than not. Thanks for sharing this about your dad. Question. Can you afford a bus ticket for you dad (were he on the streets in Portland) to Denver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Thanks for sharing this about your dad. Question. Can you afford a bus ticket for you dad (were he on the streets in Portland) to Denver? No problem, I share openly to provide context for discussion just like these. And yes, I could but the ticket myself- however, as you well know, a demographic change solves nothing if the person affected does not want to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 No problem, I share openly to provide context for discussion just like these. And yes, I could but the ticket myself- however, as you well know, a demographic change solves nothing if the person affected does not want to change. Yes I made it very clear that a change of scenery will likely just have that person out on the streets someplace else. And I would imagine if the homeless person had friends and family at the other end willing to help I would think paying for the bus ticket would be something they'd gladly do. If that's the case why am I, as a local taxpayer, on the hook for the ticket that will likely pass on the problem to someone else. And EII...that is the epitome of a feel good gesture. And to help you better understand the folly in that let me explain what a feel good gesture is. It's a gesture that makes the person offering the gesture feel good but does very little if anything to solve any kind of a problem and/or help others. And as a reminder it's not about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yes I made it very clear that a change of scenery will likely just have that person out on the streets someplace else. And I would imagine if the homeless person had friends and family at the other end willing to help I would think paying for the bus ticket would be something they'd gladly do. If that's the case why am I, as a local taxpayer, on the hook for the ticket that will likely pass on the problem to someone else. And EII...that is the epitome of a feel good gesture. And to help you better understand the folly in that let me explain what a feel good gesture is. It's a gesture that makes the person offering the gesture feel good but does very little if anything to solve any kind of a problem and/or help others. And as a reminder it's not about you. I had a Sales Manager in my first job out of College once say to me "Don't confuse activity with results, kid" I take that little diddy with me throughout life now, and I think it especially applies to public programs. Just because we can "do" something, doesn't mean we should or that there is a compelling case to be made it will deliver results. Feel good gestures are the magic arrow in a politicians quiver... I did something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I had a Sales Manager in my first job out of College once say to me "Don't confuse activity with results, kid" I take that little diddy with me throughout life now, and I think it especially applies to public programs. Just because we can "do" something, doesn't mean we should or that there is a compelling case to be made it will deliver results. Feel good gestures are the magic arrow in a politicians quiver... I did something! And the sales manager in me says you can't get results without activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I had a Sales Manager in my first job out of College once say to me "Don't confuse activity with results, kid"! Did he end up as a bad NFL coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Did he end up as a bad NFL coach? Was his name Doug Marrone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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