We are ''tolerant'' and ''progressive'&#39

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

Having a grateful mindset, not always jumping to negative conclusions.

 

Notice they are only offering these tix to people that want to leave.

 

What's the harm? Why rip it?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Clarify this. What are you talking about?

You replied:

"Feel good, though great with it's intentions, typically do not succeed. You do things to make things better for others not feel good about yourself."

 

Of course. But you are not holier than thou.

 

So you only serve others? Then what's the problem with giving people bus tix that want them? Feel-good program and it works. Doesn't the program get them to another place where they want to be?

[Azalin]

Doesn't the program get them to another place where they want to be?

 

You make it sound as if the homeless people in Portland are only homeless because they don't have a way to get home.

[Chef Jim]

You replied:

"Feel good, though great with it's intentions, typically do not succeed. You do things to make things better for others not feel good about yourself."

 

Of course. But you are not holier than thou.

 

So you only serve others? Then what's the problem with giving people bus tix that want them? Feel-good program and it works. Doesn't the program get them to another place where they want to be?

 

You don't get it which is hardly a surprise. Giving people a bus ticket will likely not solve the reason why they became homeless in the first place. You say the program works? Do you know this for a fact? I'm not so sure. What I've seen is there has been little if any follow up on the folks they've shipped out. You have someone who is a drug addict or alcoholic who gets shipped back to their family/friends. Then what? Now you have someone who is still a drug addict/alcoholic now living with friends and family. People don't do well coping with addicts and addicts lots of times do not seek help. You put those two together and you will likely end up with that person being back on the streets. So SF/Portland et al now feel good about "doing something" while the person they "helped" is back on the street someplace else. I'm only being pragmatic here.

 

You make it sound as if the homeless people in Portland are only homeless because they don't have a way to get home.

 

Portland and anywhere. Once again if this has been such a success why, after 10 years of the program, is homelessness as big an issue in SF as it always has been?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

You make it sound as if the homeless people in Portland are only homeless because they don't have a way to get home.

Sorry. Didn't mean to sound like that. You make it sound like all homeless people in Portland want a ticket out. Of course not. Doesn't the first paragraph say it all? What is all the bitching about? People moving around who want to move around and can't afford to, so they get help?

 

Big deal. BUT, this is treated like some indictment of how liberalism doesn't work. Get real.

[DC Tom]

 

You make it sound as if the homeless people in Portland are only homeless because they don't have a way to get home.

 

My car had a flat tire at the office Thursday. I was homeless for two whole hours.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

You don't get it which is hardly a surprise. Giving people a bus ticket will likely not solve the reason why they became homeless in the first place. You say the program works? Do you know this for a fact? I'm not so sure. What I've seen is there has been little if any follow up on the folks they've shipped out. You have someone who is a drug addict or alcoholic who gets shipped back to their family/friends. Then what? Now you have someone who is still a drug addict/alcoholic now living with friends and family. People don't do well coping with addicts and addicts lots of times do not seek help. You put those two together and you will likely end up with that person being back on the streets. So SF/Portland et al now feel good about "doing something" while the person they "helped" is back on the street someplace else. I'm only being pragmatic here.

 

 

Portland and anywhere. Once again if this has been such a success why, after 10 years of the program, is homelessness as big an issue in SF as it always has been?

Yeah... Being pragmatic is right. WOW! Only seeing the worse. On second thought, just leave the ones that want to move on, there in Portland. You think it is some nefarious plan.

 

What's wrong with giving somebody a bus ticket that wants a bus ticket? I am not making some grand statement this is helping the homeless situation.

 

Simple... You want a bus ticket? Here. Be happy. But meet these conditions first so we aren't foisting your problem onto somebody else.

 

Bus ticket is a tangible item that may, I said MAY jumpstart their life. It is the difference between giving a bum a buck or buying them a burger.

 

I get it... Just don't do anything. I am really not trying to solve any grand homeless problem. What so wrong with seeing if people can be moved around to where they have a better chance at getting out of the rut they are it.

 

In the Corps we call it: Essayons!

It means: "Let us try!"

 

I get it, you don't want to try, just give up and don't even ask if somebody could be better served elsewhere. I call that: "Being lazy." Fault progressives for always trying something new, but don't fault them for being lazy.

 

My car had a flat tire at the office Thursday. I was homeless for two whole hours.

2 hours?

 

Two hours to change a tire or fix a flat. I don't imagine any NASCAR pit crew will be calling you.

 

What, did you have your high heels and prom dress on? Didn't want to break a nail?

 

Oh... What's the excuse? You had a blowout and of course, the new Honda Fit doesn't come w/a spare.

 

You're a horrible human being Ed, I mean Tom...

 

:-)

Edited March 26, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois

[DC Tom]

2 hours?

 

Two hours to change a tire or fix a flat. I don't imagine any NASCAR pit crew will be calling you.

 

What, did you have your high heels and prom dress on? Didn't want to break a nail?

 

Oh... What's the excuse? You had a blowout and of course, the new Honda Fit doesn't come w/a spare.

 

You're a horrible human being Ed, I mean Tom...

 

:-)

 

I had to drive 50 miles on the expressway. I wasn't going to do that on a donut. Put the spare on, drove to a garage, had it patched.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

I had to drive 50 miles on the expressway. I wasn't going to do that on a donut. Put the spare on, drove to a garage, had it patched.

Yeah... I dont blame you.

 

I am screwed if I shred one of my run-flats.

 

I always plug on normal tires... Wheel/tire left on... Front wheel even easier because you can turn it out. In 30-years, never had one fail. Carry the kit, rubber cement, rasp. They won't fail as long as you don't run them bald. Trim at just below tread level. Usually takes 10 minutes at tops. Hogwash about getting the rasp through the belt. The belt is ready compromised w/the puncture. You just rasp it to clean it up and make the hole neater to receive the plug.

 

Now... Don't jinx me!

 

;-)

Edited March 26, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois

[TakeYouToTasker]

I have no issues with this at all on the municipal level. It's worthwhile as an experiment, and if it works as a part of a solution, perhaps other cities will follow suit.

 

Homelessness is a major problem. First of all, as Jim mentioned, a huge percentage of these people suffer from severe mental disorders, and another large chunk are veterans who were never able to reassimilate after returning from active duty. These are people we don't want slipping through the cracks. These are the people who we should be helping.

 

To address some of Chef Jim's concerns, I don't think it's a one size fits all solution; but I certainly believe it could help in many cases.

 

Many people who have disabilities and become homeless, are to some degree or another missing persons. They have available support networks from people who genuinely want to help them, but have no idea where they are.

 

I think that this, combined with some of the other things Jim suggests could be effective, implemented at the municipal level.

[TH3]

 

Now who has the reading comprehension problem? Where did I say this applies to ALL (your capitalization not mine) homeless people? I do know the reason many, if not most, people are homeless is due to alcoholism, drug addiction and mental illness. I know this how? I've live in CA for over 30 years and have witnessed it first hand. And living in SF and the Bay Area of the last 7 years I really see it. It's a major problem here.

 

Solutions are not simple and I won't sit here and say I have one. But to ship people to friends and family in hopes that will solve the underlying reasons for being homeless is a patch and a lousy one at that. SF has had it's own Homeward Bound program for 10 years now and boy I gotta tell ya it's really done a bang up job in reducing the amount of homeless people here. I also read that the program wasn't even doing what it was supposed to by following up with them to see if they made it to friends and family. It's a feel good program that doesn't work. There are people on the streets because they choose to be (mostly young people who'd rather do that than work) and those we can't help. There are people on the streets that are addicted to drugs and alcohol and treatment for them is very expensive and what do you do? Put them in rehab and then when they're clean put them back on the streets? And then there are those on the streets that are truly mentally disabled and those people we need to take care of. Those people I really feel sorry for. And I have no problem with my tax dollars getting them off the street and taken care of. And from what I've seen that is a good number of them. Is it a majority? I'm not sure but I'd not be surprised.

 

So you guys have two stories among you? Great. Come back when you're both better informed regarding the homeless problem.

 

Well...you have them beat...after all you have both seen AND witnessed homeless people....

[Tiberius]

I have no issues with this at all on the municipal level. It's worthwhile as an experiment, and if it works as a part of a solution, perhaps other cities will follow suit.

Homelessness is a major problem. First of all, as Jim mentioned, a huge percentage of these people suffer from severe mental disorders, and another large chunk are veterans who were never able to reassimilate after returning from active duty. These are people we don't want slipping through the cracks. These are the people who we should be helping.

To address some of Chef Jim's concerns, I don't think it's a one size fits all solution; but I certainly believe it could help in many cases.

Many people who have disabilities and become homeless, are to some degree or another missing persons. They have available support networks from people who genuinely want to help them, but have no idea where they are.

I think that this, combined with some of the other things Jim suggests could be effective, implemented at the municipal level.

what is the cheapest apartment in San Fran these days? 4K a month?

[Chef Jim]

 

Well...you have them beat...after all you have both seen AND witnessed homeless people....

Thanks for your insightful input.

[Maury Ballstein]

Okay, fair enough, you are only 1/2 clueless.

And you know this pertains to ALL homeless how? You paint w/a very wide brush & sweeping generalizations.

So then what is your solution for people who want to get back w/family, want to seek other support networks, get in touch w/that network, etc...?

Stay where they are? Give them a dime so they can jingle family and friends to come pick them up?

I knew a guy (passed away now) that was a Vietnam Vet and was homeless back in the late 1960's... Yes, his problem... Ran out of options while far from home... Drugs, the alcohol, whole nine yards. Well he told me the story anyway. He was out west and trying to get back to family in Chicago after he dead headed out and hit rock bottom. Back in the day... He just happened to get rounded up by a Sheriff in Nevada. The Sheriff drove him to the outskirts of town, put him on a freight boxcar and said: "This train is going to Chicago." 4 days later he was pulling into a railyard on Western Avenue!

Some do want to get back. He (my story) was never homeless again.

 

Hahahahahaha. More funnies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What if their relatives don't have any good meth or cheap booze ?

[Chef Jim]

what is the cheapest apartment in San Fran these days? 4K a month?

What's your point?

[Azalin]

Sorry. Didn't mean to sound like that. You make it sound like all homeless people in Portland want a ticket out. Of course not. Doesn't the first paragraph say it all? What is all the bitching about? People moving around who want to move around and can't afford to, so they get help?

 

Big deal. BUT, this is treated like some indictment of how liberalism doesn't work. Get real.

 

I haven't been bitching about anything, nor have I turned the issue into an indictment of liberalism. Whether it's your intention to do so or not, you sound like you're turning the issue of homelessness into one based on lack of transportation - that's certainly the implication in the article in the OP. If there are homeless people whose greatest issue is to obtain assistance getting somewhere where they can be taken care of, then that's obviously a good thing to consider. I just don't think that moving homeless people from point A to point B is truly an effective way to address the overall problem of homelessness. It sounds more to me like they're just trying to rid themselves of vagrants.

[TH3]

Thanks for your insightful input.

 

Well - I don't pretend to have insight because I have seen and witnessed the homeless - but have countered that by bringing a prejudged narrative to the conversation....

 

My one insight is this: I am involved in the development of several low income and veterans housing projects. One thing I did not know is that many of the homeless - prefer to be homeless....they prefer it to being cooped up in a home with a dorm of bunk beds. A vet center I consult on is located on a VA campus surrounded by woods. Beds are available on the campus but many of the vets prefer to stay in the woods. They scavenge construction scraps and sleep and reside in the woods. They come into the campus to eat and clean up I guess. They would prefer to have something they can call their own - as minimal as it is - rather than be institutionalized in a big room with bunk beds and cafeteria food.

 

I never thought that was one aspect to homelessness.

 

Maybe what society isn't doing a good job of is providing a sense of identity and esteem to help.

Edited March 27, 2016 by baskin

[meazza]

 

I haven't been bitching about anything, nor have I turned the issue into an indictment of liberalism. Whether it's your intention to do so or not, you sound like you're turning the issue of homelessness into one based on lack of transportation - that's certainly the implication in the article in the OP. If there are homeless people whose greatest issue is to obtain assistance getting somewhere where they can be taken care of, then that's obviously a good thing to consider. I just don't think that moving homeless people from point A to point B is truly an effective way to address the overall problem of homelessness. It sounds more to me like they're just trying to rid themselves of vagrants.

IIRC they tried to do the same thing in Paris with the gypsies. They came back.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

I haven't been bitching about anything, nor have I turned the issue into an indictment of liberalism. Whether it's your intention to do so or not, you sound like you're turning the issue of homelessness into one based on lack of transportation - that's certainly the implication in the article in the OP. If there are homeless people whose greatest issue is to obtain assistance getting somewhere where they can be taken care of, then that's obviously a good thing to consider. I just don't think that moving homeless people from point A to point B is truly an effective way to address the overall problem of homelessness. It sounds more to me like they're just trying to rid themselves of vagrants.

Fair enough.

 

You will never rid vagrancy. Just like my old school story, the only way is to keep stirring the stew and hopefully nothing sticks to the bottom of the pan... And people eventually end up where they can be productive... Or semi-productive at the very least... Keeping them moving is @ least a little work on thier part.

 

What else can you do to get them working? 30's New Deal work programs are a no-no from both the civil liberties liberal and the vindictive conservatives who want the stew to stick anywhere it is liberal so as to villify the beliefs they are against while blowing sunshine up the azzes of their ideas... That is what I take umberage w/the premise of this thread.

 

TYTT made a very good argument a few posts up.

Edited March 27, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois

[TakeYouToTasker]

TYTT made a very good argument a few posts up.

Every argument I make is a very good argument. That's why I make them.

 

The more often you find yourself in agreement with me, the more often you'll find yourself being right.