The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Could anyone be more sure of their opinion after getting an argument destroyed than you? A"truth?" Please. Your self-congratulations is not congruent with what you call "destroying." And honestly, you're exhausting, and nobody--particularly me--cares. So, if it helps you sleep at night, go for it. Otherwise, I'm done with you.
BADOLBILZ Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Unless TT makes a significant improvement, it really doesn't matter if the defense finishes 2nd or 20th. So now you are turning being wrong about RR D being excellent in 2015 into "it doesn't matter in 2016". You were wrong......RR didn't have it under control.......it was rightful to question what he was doing..........even HE knows that. I personally think the D will be much better this year.........I don't think the ceiling of his system is what it once was.......but they should be a top 10 defense again and that is probably going to have to do. But if somehow they were a top 2 defense and TT played at the level he played last season they'd have a very good chance of winning the AFC in a wide-open race. Edited March 29, 2016 by #BADOL
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 So now you are turning being wrong about RR D being excellent in 2014 into "it doesn't matter in 2015". You were wrong......RR didn't have it under control.......it was rightful to question what he was doing..........even HE knows that. I personally think the D will be much better this year.........I don't think the ceiling of his system is what it once was.......but they should be a top 10 defense again and that is probably going to have to do. But if somehow they were a top 2 defense and TT played at the level he played last season they'd have a very good chance of winning the AFC in a wide-open race. RR defense being excellent in 2014? There was no RR defense in 2014 Nobody has ever referred to the RR defense of 2015 as excellent, especially not me. Does RR stand for something I don't know about? Or are you confused as to what my assertions have been? FURTHER: I might argue that TT's 2015 performance would be prohibitive to having a top-2 defense. They'd be on the field too much if he played like he did in 2015.
Dopey Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 I think a lot of 3 and Outs last year made our Defense look a lot worse than it probably would have had we made more first downs and kept offensive drives alive. I look forward to the Offensive side of the ball improving a lot, and with it a better D will result. You can't keep the D on the field for more than half the game and expect them to dominate - especially when one of your star players falls victim to his own mind games and is essentially playing with himself. The Bills won only three games where they had a worse TOP than their opponent. Games - Opponent's TOP - Bills' Outcome Colts - 29:04 - Win NE* - 29:57 - Loss Fish - 31:53 - Win Jints - 30:33 - Loss Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win Sin-Sin - 30:00 - Loss London - 31:32 - Loss Fish 2 - 28.47 - Win J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win NE2** - 32:55 - Loss Chefs - 30:32 - Loss Houseton - 31:53 - Win Filly - 35:02 - Loss Sunburns - 30:56 - Loss Cowpokes - 28:30 - Win J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win Not buying into this. Our 2014 offense sucked, but the 2014 D was first in 3rd down efficiency in preventing a 1st down(33.2%) : http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/3rd-down-efficiency-against/2014/ Our offense was worse in 2015(not much, but worse), but our d was 23rd in 3rd down efficiency in preventing a 1st down (40.5%): http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/3rd-down-efficiency-against/2015/ One more 3 and out in 11 less possessions shouldn't equal such a big dive in the defenses #'s From the same site I have the offensive #'s regarding 3 and outs below: 2014 we had a 3 and out at a 24.87 % clip 49 out of 197 2015 we had a 3 and out at a 26.88 % clip 50 out of 186 http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2014/ http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2015/
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Not buying into this. Our 2014 offense sucked, but the 2014 D was first in 3rd down efficiency in preventing a 1st down(33.2%) : http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/3rd-down-efficiency-against/2014/ Our offense was worse in 2015(not much, but worse), but our d was 23rd in 3rd down efficiency in preventing a 1st down (40.5%): http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/3rd-down-efficiency-against/2015/ One more 3 and out in 11 less possessions shouldn't equal such a big dive in the defenses #'s From the same site I have the offensive #'s regarding 3 and outs below: 2014 we had a 3 and out at a 24.87 % clip 49 out of 197 2015 we had a 3 and out at a 26.88 % clip 50 out of 186 http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2014/ http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2015/ Bolded represents the reality most in this argument won't accept. As for three and outs, the global percentage does tell part of the story. And alone, it was good for 31st in the NFL. But the impact of those three and outs is best measured when you look at how they came: often in bunches. This has been my point now for about two months. It doesn't excuse the defense for not being able to get off the field. And nobody is suggesting they weren't better at getting off the field in 2014. But that doesn't invalidate the impact that three and outs DID have on the defense, and thus on the OUTCOMES of games. This has been my contention and the numbers bear it out.
FireChan Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Bolded represents the reality most in this argument won't accept. As for three and outs, the global percentage does tell part of the story. And alone, it was good for 31st in the NFL. But the impact of those three and outs is best measured when you look at how they came: often in bunches. This has been my point now for about two months. It doesn't excuse the defense for not being able to get off the field. And nobody is suggesting they weren't better at getting off the field in 2014. But that doesn't invalidate the impact that three and outs DID have on the defense, and thus on the OUTCOMES of games. This has been my contention and the numbers bear it out. Because it was worse in one stat and better in almost every single other one. It's really that simple. Edited March 29, 2016 by FireChan
4merper4mer Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 RR defense being excellent in 2014? There was no RR defense in 2014 Nobody has ever referred to the RR defense of 2015 as excellent, especially not me. Does RR stand for something I don't know about? Or are you confused as to what my assertions have been? FURTHER: I might argue that TT's 2015 performance would be prohibitive to having a top-2 defense. They'd be on the field too much if he played like he did in 2015. Latch on to the typo even though he clearly meant 2015 and 2016 instead of 2014 and 2015. If you harp on the typo you can ignore the content which refutes the lame arguments you've been making.
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Latch on to the typo even though he clearly meant 2015 and 2016 instead of 2014 and 2015. If you harp on the typo you can ignore the content which refutes the lame arguments you've been making. No it doesn't. It refutes arguments that nobody has been making.
4merper4mer Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 No it doesn't. It refutes arguments that nobody has been making. When you watch CSI and they reveal the villain at the end do you explain why it was really someone else who did it because it was their fault the villain killed the victim?
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 When you watch CSI and they reveal the villain at the end do you explain why it was really someone else who did it because it was their fault the villain killed the victim? When you make analogies do you just line up a row of Barbie dolls with index cards taped to their foreheads and throw rocks until one of them topples over?
4merper4mer Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 When you make analogies do you just line up a row of Barbie dolls with index cards taped to their foreheads and throw rocks until one of them topples over? We really landed on the moon. Oj killed Nicole. The defense sucked because the defense sucked.
3rdand12 Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 When you make analogies do you just line up a row of Barbie dolls with index cards taped to their foreheads and throw rocks until one of them topples over? i love you guys. fell out of my chair
4merper4mer Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 As Dopeys stats indicated, they were slightly worse at 3 and outs in 2015 then in 2014. If I was to guess, that is the only stat the 2015 offense is worse in compared to 2014. A 2.1% increase in 3 and outs would've made our defense fall from 2nd to what? 3rd overall? Lol. If you were to argue that, it would be a very ****ty argument, but entertaining as most of your arguments are. If we fix the 2.1 % 3 and outs and get back to stellar Orton type stats there will be a new stat to blame for Kyle Williams not being able to cover Jarvis Landry or going from #31 to #32 in sacks. For instance what if TT throws 17% more interceptions than last year? I'm sure he could spin some math to equate that to causing the defense to give up 17 more points per game.
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Lol. So the offense is faintly worse at 3 and outs in 2015 but much better in just about every other category. The defense is worse to significantly worse in every defensive category. So you want to blame the offenses 3 and outs as main a reason for the defensive struggles and losses? Again, if this was the 2014 defense the team is a shoe in for a AFC Divisional playoff game. If we fix the 2.1 % 3 and outs and get back to stellar Orton type stats there will be a new stat to blame for Kyle Williams not being able to cover Jarvis Landry or going from #31 to #32 in sacks. For instance what if TT throws 17% more interceptions than last year? I'm sure he could spin some math to equate that to causing the defense to give up 17 more points per game. At this point you're either entirely incapable of grasping the point which has been fleshed out and explained, accompanied by all available data. OR you'd rather not understand and it's willful ignorance. Either way. I'm looking forward to the season. I love our team. I'm excited to TT play and I'm hopeful for what Rex can do with some new pieces on defense. Everything else is a hopeless pissing contest into the wind.
4merper4mer Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) At this point you're either entirely incapable of grasping the point which has been fleshed out and explained, accompanied by all available data. OR you'd rather not understand and it's willful ignorance. Either way. I'm looking forward to the season. I love our team. I'm excited to TT play and I'm hopeful for what Rex can do with some new pieces on defense. Everything else is a hopeless pissing contest into the wind. Well we agree that we hope the Bills win. Thanks for calling me stupid because I don't see the way you connected the dots as valid. Have you considered that the difficulty grasping inefficiencies may be yours? Edited March 29, 2016 by 4merper4mer
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Well we agree that we hope the Bills win. Thanks for calling me stupid because I don't see the way you connected the dots as valid. Have you considered that grasping inefficiencies may be yours? Your hit rate on repeating it back is what leads me to believe you don't understand.
4merper4mer Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 Your hit rate on repeating it back is what leads me to believe you don't understand. That you did a Harvard Business Review case study on why our defense sucked and used bad math which blamed the offense? No, i understand that.
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 That you did a Harvard Business Review case study on why our defense sucked and used bad math which blamed the offense? No, i understand that. And there you go. The Harvard Business Review was to show that the offense had a greater impact on losses than the defense. It had nothing to do with justifying anything about the defense.
BADOLBILZ Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 RR defense being excellent in 2014? There was no RR defense in 2014 Nobody has ever referred to the RR defense of 2015 as excellent, especially not me. Does RR stand for something I don't know about? Or are you confused as to what my assertions have been? FURTHER: I might argue that TT's 2015 performance would be prohibitive to having a top-2 defense. They'd be on the field too much if he played like he did in 2015. I corrected my typo mistake...........you can't admit that you greatly overestimated the impact REX RYAN's system would have. FURTHER: yeah, YOU might argue that.
The Big Cat Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I corrected my typo mistake...........you can't admit that you greatly overestimated the impact REX RYAN's system would have. FURTHER: yeah, YOU might argue that. I freely admit that. Me and 95% of Bills Nation thought the defense would lay waste to opponents. I expected to see 10-12 bloodbaths last year. My pre-2015 expectations were clear. I thought we'd dominate the majority of games but--because of Rex Ryan--be good for a stinker or two or three. I never in a 1,000,000 years expected a mediocre defense. I also didn't expect the team to be ravaged by injuries like it was in contrast to the spoils of 2014. What does that have to do with anything? FURTHER: if they finish 31st in 3 and out percentage again, and if those three and outs come in bunches against teams with good offenses again, then yeah, I'd say it's highly improbable that we have a top two defense. That's not even the 100th most absurd thing said on this board today. Edited March 29, 2016 by The Big Cat
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