4merper4mer Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Bill in NYC posted a thread a few days ago and I do not want to disrupt it. I do however feel that a sidetrack topic that got going in there is worthy of discussion. i do not want to take away from Bill's main topic though.....and I hope he posts game recaps when his heart desires without feeling obligated to do all 16. The sidetrack topic was whether the Bills defense is destined to "crash and burn" in 2016. Without putting words in Bill's mouth, I think he feels like it will. Some others agree. Some others disagree. Personally I don't agree with either group technically. I think it is pretty clear that the Bills defense crashed in 2015. The most likely scenario is that it will do the burning in 2016. So while I agree with the crash and burn theory, i think we are already half way there. it is 100% certain that we crashed in 2015. That is clear. Some people argue about the reasons, which is hard to fathom, but whatever. I think the reason is clear and he hired to brother to double down. What I'm wondering about is the burning. With the fuselage laying on the ground in pieces, does anyone think there is a way to put it all back together in 2016 and have something functional? In other words...no burning. If so, how?
YoloinOhio Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) It was ranked what, 15th? It was pretty average. Some great games, some good games, some bad games. Of course it can get better, don't see why not. I guess it could get worse if everyone gets hurt but that's true of any unit on any team. I don't get the "fuselage laying on the ground in pieces" ... What I am more concerned about the offense continuing to improve and not take a step back. Offense is more important to winning games against teams with good to great QBs like Brady, Ben, Dalton, Wilson, Palmer, etc.. Need to score. IMO. Edited March 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio
26CornerBlitz Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I see that today is make up your own "facts" Friday. Edited March 25, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Unless TT makes a significant improvement, it really doesn't matter if the defense finishes 2nd or 20th.
nucci Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Unless TT makes a significant improvement, it really doesn't matter if the defense finishes 2nd or 20th. Yes it does....if the defense was 2nd last year we would have made the playoffs....
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Yes it does....if the defense was 2nd last year we would have made the playoffs....
Mr. WEO Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Unless TT makes a significant improvement, it really doesn't matter if the defense finishes 2nd or 20th. The Super Bowl Champion Broncos disagree....
4merper4mer Posted March 25, 2016 Author Posted March 25, 2016 Unless TT makes a significant improvement, it really doesn't matter if the defense finishes 2nd or 20th. Should we even field a defense or the other 10 offensive players or even a kicker or should we just see how TT does then decide if we want to keep the franchise or fold it? The defense doesn't matter in the NFL....that's a good one. It is the only way to really defend Rex 2015 so congrats on coming up with it.
BuffaloBill Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 The Super Bowl Champion Broncos disagree.... While I find it shocking to post this, I agree with you.
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 The Super Bowl Champion Broncos disagree.... Well if you want to argue in cherry-picked specifics, the Super Bowl Broncos are completely irrelevant since they finished...you know...better than 2nd.
Manther Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Yes it does....if the defense was 2nd last year we would have made the playoffs....Absolutely!
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Should we even field a defense or the other 10 offensive players or even a kicker or should we just see how TT does then decide if we want to keep the franchise or fold it? The defense doesn't matter in the NFL....that's a good one. It is the only way to really defend Rex 2015 so congrats on coming up with it. The Bills can have a winning season and a playoff berth with a dominant defense and TT playing at the same or slightly better level than he was last year. But a championship certainly isn't in the cards. Depends on how we define success. But it doesn't change what I said. Alongside a 2nd ranked defense, an improved Taylor is the difference between the symbolic victory of a 10-6 season and a legitimate run at a Lombardi. If Tyrod stays the same and the defense finishes 20th (no !@#$ing chance this happens, and as the entire board as witness, I will wage the Bills finish better than 20th in defense next year), then we could probably still hope for the symbolic achievement of a non-losing season. So, again. 2nd ranked defense, and TT stays the same: meh. 20th ranked defense and TT stays the same: slightly less entertaining meh. Absolutely! The offense was absolutely the barrier to the playoffs this year. I have roundly made this case, repeatedly, with plenty of data, for months.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Well if you want to argue in cherry-picked specifics, the Super Bowl Broncos are completely irrelevant since they finished...you know...better than 2nd. Since we are all about cherry picking what was the other Super Bowl team's defensive ranking? Also in the spirit of cherry picking in this 'offense/QB is all that matters league' are Super Bowl participants more likely to have the higher rated offense, or defense?
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Since we are all about cherry picking what was the other Super Bowl team's defensive ranking? Also in the spirit of cherry picking in this 'offense/QB is all that matters league' are Super Bowl participants more likely to have the higher rated offense, or defense? The other Super Bowl team had the league MVP as their QB. So... The other Super Bowl team had the league MVP as their QB. So... As for Super Bowl participants, the last 13 Superbowls have been won by: Manning x 2 Brady x 3 Wilson Flacco E. Manning x 2 Big Ben x 2 Rodgers Brees The last 13 Super Bowls have been lost by: Newton Wilson Manning x 2 Kaepernick Brady x 2 Big Ben Warner Grossman Hasselbeck McNabb Delhomme So 15 different quarterbacks have played in the last 13 Superbowls. And at least six of them (roughly half) are LOCKS for the HOF. Edited March 25, 2016 by The Big Cat
Jauronimo Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 The other Super Bowl team had the league MVP as their QB. So... And they lost. So... Are you really so committed to your flippant comment that you're going to argue that 15th or 2nd in defense is meaningless to wins and losses unless your QB play is better than above average?
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 And they lost. So... Are you really so committed to your flippant comment that you're going to argue that 15th or 2nd in defense is meaningless to wins and losses unless your QB play is better than above average? That's not my argument. So no, I'm not committed to it.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure some people have been able to put what happened last season into proper perspective: the Broncos won the Super Bowl with LITERALLY the worst quarterback in all of football. Could you make the argument that you maybe would've taken him over a handful of starting QB's in the league in the playoffs due to his experience? Sure. Maybe a handful. But dude, to make this about Tyrod Taylor again? The Bills offense finished 13th/12th in total offense/scoring. If you don't think they could've WON THE SUPER BOWL (not saying they would've but they could've- they obviously would've made the playoffs) with the 2014 Jim Schwartz defense, then I really question your football acumen. Defense is kind of important. Edited March 25, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
Jauronimo Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Unless TT makes a significant improvement, it really doesn't matter if the defense finishes 2nd or 20th. And they lost. So... Are you really so committed to your flippant comment that you're going to argue that 15th or 2nd in defense is meaningless to wins and losses unless your QB play is better than above average? That's not my argument. So no, I'm not committed to it. Then by all means, clarify your argument.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) The Bills can have a winning season and a playoff berth with a dominant defense and TT playing at the same or slightly better level than he was last year. But a championship certainly isn't in the cards. Depends on how we define success. But it doesn't change what I said. Alongside a 2nd ranked defense, an improved Taylor is the difference between the symbolic victory of a 10-6 season and a legitimate run at a Lombardi. If Tyrod stays the same and the defense finishes 20th (no !@#$ing chance this happens, and as the entire board as witness, I will wage the Bills finish better than 20th in defense next year), then we could probably still hope for the symbolic achievement of a non-losing season. So, again. 2nd ranked defense, and TT stays the same: meh. 20th ranked defense and TT stays the same: slightly less entertaining meh. The offense was absolutely the barrier to the playoffs this year. I have roundly made this case, repeatedly, with plenty of data, for months. Oh geez I didn't know you were another one of those guys. How can you talk that way about a guy who gave us the best QB play since at least 2002 Bledsoe, making the first 14 starts of his career for a team that you profess to care about so much that you have posted over 16,000 times on a website devoted solely to? You do realize that if Taylor was a rookie last year he would've waltzed away with the rookie of the year award, right? God, there's like five of you who delight in rooting against this guy and I just don't get it. Just saw your age- obviously before your time but I was at Jim Kelly's first game against the Jets in 1986 when he was roughly the same age as Taylor was last year. Took him a few years to really hit his stride ya know. You clearly have no perspective for just how well Taylor played considering it was his first year as an NFL starting QB. Let the dude work out with his receivers all offseason and get a second year to settle into a new offense and perhaps he can improve on his "meh" top 10 QB rating and YPA, 20 TD's to 6 INT's, all while being the most dynamic running QB in football. Edited March 25, 2016 by metzelaars_lives
The Big Cat Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 I think your point is the teams with the best QB's win the Superbowl. Usually the case. Still it would be nice to get into the playoffs for the first time in 16 years. 10-6 and a playoff birth isn't crashing and burning and once you get in, anything can happen. The offense was more then good enough last year assuming the defense built off it's 2014 performance. It regressed significantly and here we are. You make it sound like defense is irrelevant unless your number 1 in the league?? I'm confused as to where you came up with this. If that's the way it SOUNDS then I'm being misinterpreted, which could very well be in the fault of how I've framed the argument. Regardless, look, I'm with you brother. A playoff berth is our Super Bowl. But here's the reality: we're in the bottom half of the league right now in cap space...and we're not paying a quarterback. So, while an upward blip on the drought graph would make for a thoroughly enjoyable start to the 2017 calendar, NFL teams that experience success over the long haul are built around the quarterback. And you can allocate a disproportionate amount of money to the guy because he can hide deficiencies up and down the roster, on both sides of the ball. We don't have that luxury! Instead, we have to hope for a dominant defense to hide our QB's limitations. That's not sustainable, and it doesn't matter who your coach is. So sitting here expecting or hoping for a top 5 defense is nice and all, but it's a lousy position to be in, given the likelihood that games are won or lost based on QB play. Making the "yeah but Trent Dilfer" argument was marginalized for a reason. Just because people make it now by subbing in Peyton Manning doesn't make it suddenly valid. That Broncos defense lost a couple key pieces to FA. We'll see just how sustainable that model was. Then by all means, clarify your argument. I have. Several times. And in several ways. I'd actually rather you clarify how you wiffed so badly at what was actually said.
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