GaryPinC Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Why is everyone presupposing we will have to build a $1 billion stadium by today's dollars? The NFL isn't complaining about Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, Arizona, Cinci, New England stadiums. Those stadiums would have cost in the 4-600 million range by today's dollars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_home_stadiums_for_current_National_Football_League_teams It's great that NY, Dallas, SF, Minneapolis want to sink so much money into their stadiums, but do the Pegulas and NFL really want to force a completely un-viable stadium upon us? How would the NFL look if that turned out to be the case? I don't see it. I think the NFL wants a newer, cleaner, more open concourse stadium with more dedicated room for suites/club, vendors and pleasing aesthetics. That's the only differences I see between Cle, Pit stadiums and the Ralph. I think the Ralph is fine, but understand where the NFL is coming from.
Saxum Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Downtown Niagara Falls, that is. No one gives a sh#t about tiny and deteroirating downtown Buffalo, that attracts zero tourists every year. At least your ID is true, although "complete bullsh1t" is more accurate, complete lie that Buffalo attracts zero tourists every year.
Saxum Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Insults, good job bud. You know what the rest of the owners will say to that. "Get the eff out of Buffalo then" It is NOT insults - it is an evaluation of what is coming out of your mouth. See the quote. Nothing has been said about all of the 31 owners. I say same thing when Buffalo News reporters make up sources, If the Bills could actually be a team on the field this talk would never exist. GreenBay has not got a new modern stadium but they are relevant to the league. The Bills are nothing more than potential money to visiting teams...we have no national appeal for TV because our executives and coaches have been so bad in the last 20 years. If we had a record like the Packers, Patriots or even the Giants no one would ever make these type of statements. Win on the field and all this type of talk stops. Same thing with Kansas City - rather than doing a band aid they modernized the stadium but Bills had a elderly and ailing owner who had no relatives who wanted franchise after death but wisdom to bind new owner to Western New York for period of time. Kansas City is the model which Bills should follow with state and country helping with infrastructure and maybe a light rail line, IIRC the split is 60% home team and 40% road team. Some gate revenue is shared but not suites. I wonder what NFL would do with owner who wanted all suite stadium?
ALF Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The Bills can raise ticket prices at the Ralph to calm down the other greedy owners for now. The Pegulas paid $1.4 B what more do they want.
3rdand12 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) I suppose on balance a new stadium is probably needed. My sensibility is not at all populist, but when I read this kind of innuendo and suggestion from NFL fat cats, I do sorta want to tell them to shove it. That's the bit of it that churls me too. Must consider the source of the article first. But I just hate being pressured into doing something. And Did it need to be dragged out into the open. As professionals , wouldn't it be more respectful as a closed door conversation? Dick move and childish. Everything i have read here says in time a new stadium is probably coming. And the revenue sharing from the Bills needs to show a plan to increase. and this has been a great read everyone !! Edited March 24, 2016 by 3rdand12
dwight in philly Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) when the owners tell the Packers that they should start thinking about a new stadium, i will start paying attention. Edited March 24, 2016 by dwight in philly
Jerry Jabber Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Sorry, but everyone needs to change with the times. Businesses who change and adapt with the times succeed, while those that continue to do business the way they've always done things end up failing because another business (or businesses) come along and do things newer and better. And if the ticket prices go up, then maybe that will be a good thing as we could see more responsible people in the stands vice the druken idiots that start fights, pour beer on other fans, and other idiotic behavior that we've seen over the years at the Ralph.
Hammered a Lot Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The Bills can raise ticket prices at the Ralph to calm down the other greedy owners for now. The Pegulas paid $1.4 B what more do they want.👍
Mr. WEO Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 A point people seem to also miss. Bills current estimated operating income for 2015 was $44.2m , according to Forbes, before taxes. It won't take too much more raising of the cap to eat into that and Pegula is still trying to pay back his debt from buying the Bills. Compare that to the Giants who's operating income is $105.2m. The total revenue of the in 2014 was 7.3 billion--that's 226.4 million share per team and up a whopping 21% from just the year before. That's far above the cap, which will never catch up to revenues. Even low grossing teams like the Bills can't help but make tens of millions in profit yearly.
Saxum Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 The fans don't want it, the owner doesn't want it, the tax payers don't want it, the state doesn't want it. I've never heard a free agent say they don't want to play somewhere because they have an old stadium. Apparently the only people that want a new stadium are the other owners. Nothing they can do about it and from the article it wasn't even brought up. Vic is really reaching Free agents do not want to play in old stadium if it has an OLD field or OLD facilities like locker rooms with staph infections or poor workout equipment. Bills concentrated on faculties with upgrade, Reporters DO want new stadium with enhanced press boxes and more interview rooms - let them pay for it!
dwight in philly Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Sorry, but everyone needs to change with the times. Businesses who change and adapt with the times succeed, while those that continue to do business the way they've always done things end up failing because another business (or businesses) come along and do things newer and better. And if the ticket prices go up, then maybe that will be a good thing as we could see more responsible people in the stands vice the druken idiots that start fights, pour beer on other fans, and other idiotic behavior that we've seen over the years at the Ralph. and then we can all do the golf clap after a late TD or field goal that secures a win. that is where the league is headed.
thebandit27 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 and then we can all do the golf clap after a late TD or field goal that secures a win. that is where the league is headed. Absolutely...because there's no middle ground between fight/puke/pass out and golf clap/wear trousers.
Leroi Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) I don't understand where some of you are relating Drinking to wealth. Are you under the impression you can not be a successful alcoholic? There is no correlation between booze and earnings. There is no correlation between earnings and behavior. Imo Edited March 24, 2016 by Leroi
dwight in philly Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Absolutely...because there's no middle ground between fight/puke/pass out and golf clap/wear trousers. of course there is. i think there is a chance you may have missed my point.
Boatdrinks Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 when the owners tell the Packers that they should start thinking about a new stadium, i will start paying attention. Except that Lambeu field was renovated completely to the tune of hundreds of millions of $. The Ralph got window dressing improvements. The bottom line is the current stadium gives no power to raise prices. Yah, yah a winning team blah blah blah , but there is no way to guarantee that in the NFL. So you need to appeal to a more affluent fan ( which does exist in Buffalo). The fan that currently stays home for most games due to crappy weather, rowdy drunken fans and poor amenities. A new stadium does that. Secondary market ticket prices reflect that there is plenty of room to increase prices and reduce supply of tickets. Forget about meaningless stats like poverty in city. All that shows is most of wealthier WNYers don't live in city limits. Families in poverty are probably not the target demographic for NFL ticket sales. Doesn't mean there isn't an untapped market of upscale fans willing to pay for seats in a climate controlled stadium. While not a huge fan of indoor stadiums, I believe it's the only choice to give Buffalo ability to attract upmarket ticket buyers. Green Bay is really an NFL anomaly.
papazoid Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 the Bills will continue to raise ticket prices until they stop selling 60,000 Season Tickets per year
Boatdrinks Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 All that glitters, is not gold (etc.) The ROI for the Pegula's for a new stadium would likely be awful w/o charging the fans into oblivion. I already have great seats. I don't pay much attention to 'bright,'n shiny' with regard to the stadium environment. The Bills could play in the Mud Lot next to the Ralph, and I'd still come to the games. I'll have a comfortable retirement in a few years time. I am not going to drop serious bank on PSL's in this lifetime. A new stadium might look pretty to some, but at the end of the day, it will not make for a better gameday experience. BADOL said that the current facility is 'a dump'. I concur. It still doesn't make a difference to me. Fix what we have,and live with it unless you want to see average location tickets for multiples of a $100 bill. Realistically , the NFL isn't concerned with the current customer. It's looking for a new untapped revenue stream and that is a different clientele . Some current customers will nut up and pay the new freight because they know they've skated by on the relative cheap for years compared to other NFL markets. The rest will be collateral damage associated with appealing to the new patrons. The league has no problem with this, it's their M.O in every way. Looking to play games in China etc. They are constantly looking for new revenue. It's ruthless in its pursuit of the almighty sawbuck, but pretty damn successful . the Bills will continue to raise ticket prices until they stop selling 60,000 Season Tickets per year The Bills will raise ticket prices to what the market will bear ( eventually) when they have a new stadium. They'll still sell close to 60,000 season tickets because the stadium capacity will be much closer to 60,000 than to 70,000. There will be much less supply and higher prices.
dwight in philly Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Except that Lambeu field was renovated completely to the tune of hundreds of millions of $. The Ralph got window dressing improvements. The bottom line is the current stadium gives no power to raise prices. Yah, yah a winning team blah blah blah , but there is no way to guarantee that in the NFL. So you need to appeal to a more affluent fan ( which does exist in Buffalo). The fan that currently stays home for most games due to crappy weather, rowdy drunken fans and poor amenities. A new stadium does that. Secondary market ticket prices reflect that there is plenty of room to increase prices and reduce supply of tickets. Forget about meaningless stats like poverty in city. All that shows is most of wealthier WNYers don't live in city limits. Families in poverty are probably not the target demographic for NFL ticket sales. Doesn't mean there isn't an untapped market of upscale fans willing to pay for seats in a climate controlled stadium. While not a huge fan of indoor stadiums, I believe it's the only choice to give Buffalo ability to attract upmarket ticket buyers. Green Bay is really an NFL anomaly. i really dont want those fans that stay home because they are so "fragile" they cant deal with what happens at a football game. i said before, you will get nothing but people doing the golf clap.. nothing wrong with that.. but i go to a football game and expect what happens , and what goes with.. a football game.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 i really dont want those fans that stay home because they are so "fragile" they cant deal with what happens at a football game. i said before, you will get nothing but people doing the golf clap.. nothing wrong with that.. but i go to a football game and expect what happens , and what goes with.. a football game. You have to look at it from the team and league standpoint though. Do you think that they prefer people paying $70 a ticket and puking in the parking lot or $150 a ticket and golf clapping? Again, those are obvious extremes but it illustrates the point. It really doesn't matter what the guy who was choke slammed through the table prefers. It matters what the team and league prefer.
dwight in philly Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 You have to look at it from the team and league standpoint though. Do you think that they prefer people paying $70 a ticket and puking in the parking lot or $150 a ticket and golf clapping? Again, those are obvious extremes but it illustrates the point. It really doesn't matter what the guy who was choke slammed through the table prefers. It matters what the team and league prefer. i suppose you are right, that is what the league prefers. and IMHO i think the league will reach its tipping point and possibly look back.. and maybe they wont. i get the rowdy drunks, but they are in the minority... as opposed to turning the sport into a sterile stadium studio experience.
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